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The Patterson/Gimlin bigfoot film re-examined


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#16    keninsc

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:51 AM

View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

"They" are trying to dispel the myth that this film footage was ever debunked and by deconstructing each movement through enhanced video.   Through more detailed analysis and closer scrutiny of the film,  'they" are providing further evidence that this film was most assuredly not a hoax.

I get that, but seriously, what do "they" think has been missed in the past? This film has been digitized, re-digitized, stabilized, enhanced, double and triple enhanced, reverse imaged, and broken down into individual frame and I personally have seen several frame by frame motion analysis, even computer (stick-man) analysis and the bottom line is no two studies have come up with the same results yet. They can't even agree on how tall the creature is in the film.

So, again I ask, what exactly is it they think they're going to discover that's been missed after all these previous and rather detailed studies?

Edited by keninsc, 20 October 2012 - 11:52 AM.


#17    Bionic Bigfoot

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:15 PM

Well, if you have to ask again, then I'm sorry but I can't help you understand the purpose. I'm sure others will appreciate the efforts that "M.K" went to in order to re-evaluate the footage and with newer techniques.


#18    Night Walker

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:17 PM

View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I've personally always believed that the Patterson/Gimlin footage was authentic.

But that is the thing - the only choices are to believe or not believe. One can't simply go out and look at the Bigfoots oneself. Once you believe then it becomes a matter of faith and faith allows folk to overlook the complete lack of confirming evidence and the culture of fakery that has built up around Bigfoot over the last 45 years (of which Patterson was a founding father along with the person he consulted prior to making the film - Ray Wallace).


View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I don't think anyone will ever be able to prove this case is a hoax.

View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

It's never been conclusively proved to be a fake

And that is another thing - it is impossible to conclusively prove (ie beyond reasonable doubt) that something is fake or doesn't exist. Belief in Bigfoot is not about reason or even being reasonable - it is about belief/faith which eclipses doubt.



View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

...who is "they"?

View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

Although this footage is very old now, it's still some of the best evidence we have showing the creature's existence.

Who is "we"?


View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

The way the creature walked and moved, the musculature visible underneath the hair, the breasts that were seen and the other physiological and anatomical details captured in this film, clearly shows that this wasn't a faked event created by a human in a costume.

View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Makes me wonder actually if bigfoot debunkers have a predisposition for vision problems. LOL

Pot meet kettle. When it comes to topics of belief and faith it is always the "others" who are in the wrong...

BB - Has your belief in the authenticity of Patterson's film actually inspired you to search for the creature yourself or are you merely content to preach from the Book of Shod? Are you "open minded" enough to ever admit being a Bigfoot dupe? If so, what would it take?

(p.s. I don't believe I am being snarky - I genuinely am curious about the nature of your belief.)

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#19    Night Walker

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

View Postkeninsc, on 20 October 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I get that, but seriously, what do "they" think has been missed in the past? This film has been digitized, re-digitized, stabilized, enhanced, double and triple enhanced, reverse imaged, and broken down into individual frame and I personally have seen several frame by frame motion analysis, even computer (stick-man) analysis and the bottom line is no two studies have come up with the same results yet. They can't even agree on how tall the creature is in the film.

If "they" were truly serious about proving the authenticity of Patterson's film you'd think "they" would simply release the original footage for independent analysis.

Note: the original has never been sighted.

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#20    Night Walker

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:23 PM

View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Well, if you have to ask again, then I'm sorry but I can't help you understand the purpose. I'm sure others will appreciate the efforts that "M.K" went to in order to re-evaluate the footage and with newer techniques.

Are you referring to M. K. "Bigfoot Massacre at Bluff Creek" Davis?

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#21    Bionic Bigfoot

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:31 PM

View PostNight Walker, on 20 October 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

BB - Has your belief in the authenticity of Patterson's film actually inspired you to search for the creature yourself or are you merely content to preach from the Book of Shod? Are you "open minded" enough to ever admit being a Bigfoot dupe? If so, what would it take?

(p.s. I don't believe I am being snarky - I genuinely am curious about the nature of your belief.)

Unfortunately, I'm not able to get out into the 'field' to look for bigfoot.  I live in an area of Ontario Canada that is very populated with no real forested areas. I am also one of the schmucks who has to work for a living  and so I don't have the luxury to take weeks or months off to travel into the vast wilderness areas of North America. If I could, I probably would but with some trepidation too.

Doesn't mean I haven't done my homework and research to solidify my opinions and beliefs.  :)

Edited by Bionic Bigfoot, 20 October 2012 - 12:32 PM.


#22    Bionic Bigfoot

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:48 PM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 20 October 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

a coatume created for a low budget TV serial versus one cuwtom made for hoaxing .... hmmm.

Not buying your comparison.  I would think and bet that the TV series SMDM and BW had a bigger budget and more money at their disposal than Patterson and Gimlin for sure.  And again, don't forget this event took place nearly 10 years prior to this television series.

Edited by Bionic Bigfoot, 20 October 2012 - 12:49 PM.


#23    Night Walker

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Unfortunately, I'm not able to get out into the 'field' to look for bigfoot.  I live in an area of Ontario Canada that is very populated with no real forested areas. I am also one of the schmucks who has to work for a living  and so I don't have the luxury to take weeks or months off to travel into the vast wilderness areas of North America. If I could, I probably would but with some trepidation too.

Doesn't mean I haven't done my homework and research to solidify my opinions and beliefs.  :)

No disrespect intended but it doesn't mean that you have, either...

Below is a map displaying the population density of Ontario:

Posted Image
http://www12.statcan...tes/m1o-eng.htm

Compare that with a map of Ontario detailing locations of documented Bigfoot sightings/track finds/vocalizations:

Posted Image
http://www.ontariosa...-map/4535347380

Note that the majority of documented Bigfoot encounters are actually in and around the densly populated corner of the province.

Many folk who go out in the field in order to search for Bigfoot are working schmucks (myself included). They/we do not need to take weeks or months off in order to do so - any amount of spare time will do. Finding definitive proof of Bigfoot would be a cash cow (as it remains for the Patterson family even though the film is far from definitive).

So do you have any valid reasons why you do not practice what you preach?

And please take the time to answer my other questions when you get the chance. We may be divided in our personal opinions of Bigfoot but are we not chasing the same thing?

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#24    keninsc

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:10 PM

View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Unfortunately, I'm not able to get out into the 'field' to look for bigfoot.  I live in an area of Ontario Canada that is very populated with no real forested areas. I am also one of the schmucks who has to work for a living  and so I don't have the luxury to take weeks or months off to travel into the vast wilderness areas of North America. If I could, I probably would but with some trepidation too.

Doesn't mean I haven't done my homework and research to solidify my opinions and beliefs.  :)

My dear fellow, most of us are in the same boat, the problem is that filmed images can be hoaxed so easily that, footprints made by humans and various other things that these just have to be taken with a rather large grain of salt. What you have to ask yourself, is a penetrating question like, why hasn't one been shot before now and brought out? Why has no one ever found a body or skeleton in the woods? Yes, skeletons of other creatures are encountered all the time. I've come across deer, bear and elk in my many hiking and camping trips, but never a Bigfoot. Granted I'm not the last word on that, but then too ask yourself if there's any record of large primates in the fossil record in North America and you'll soon discover the answer is, "No". All the a fore mentioned animals do have fossilized bones in those records.

While I believe MK Davis is sincere in his beliefs, I believe his objectivity is clouded by that belief, and I think yours might be as well and it's completely understandable because some of these old boys have gotten good at sounding all believable.......until you take a hard look at the evidence and realize there are other answers that fit as well.

Just saying.


#25    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 03:05 PM

View Postkeninsc, on 20 October 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I get that, but seriously, what do "they" think has been missed in the past? This film has been digitized, re-digitized, stabilized, enhanced, double and triple enhanced, reverse imaged, and broken down into individual frame and I personally have seen several frame by frame motion analysis, even computer (stick-man) analysis and the bottom line is no two studies have come up with the same results yet. They can't even agree on how tall the creature is in the film.

So, again I ask, what exactly is it they think they're going to discover that's been missed after all these previous and rather detailed studies?

All things like this are designed to do is to keep kicking the bigfoot can down the road so that websites like BFRO can sell more expeditions, t-shirts, and baseball caps.  Gotta keep the (merchandising)  dream alive!


#26    Bionic Bigfoot

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 03:37 PM

View Postorangepeaceful79, on 20 October 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

All things like this are designed to do is to keep kicking the bigfoot can down the road so that websites like BFRO can sell more expeditions, t-shirts, and baseball caps.  Gotta keep the (merchandising)  dream alive!

Whatever......you and others apparently need to broaden your minds, yours is severely lacking imagination and subjectivity.


#27    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 03:44 PM

View PostBionic Bigfoot, on 20 October 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Whatever......you and others apparently need to broaden your minds, yours is severely lacking imagination and subjectivity.


Awwww - come on.  I was just having a bit of fun.  I'd love for Bigfoot to be real.  That would be SO cool.  I'm being totally genuine when I say it.  At this point however there are just way, way too many things in the way for me to believe that Bigfoot is real.  possible - sure.  Likely - not.

Like QuiteContrary said in another thread regarding cryptids.  Bigfoot is THE pre-eminent cryptid because of its supernatural ability to appear and cause sightings but effectively do none of the other things that real animals do - namely leave behind evidence of eating, habitation, breeding, dying, injury, predation, migration, or any other animal activity that would connect it to the web of life.  Its not a lack of my imagination that causes this to be true.

One could easily state that it could be your over-active imagination that allows you to believe in something that leaves behind no evidence.  I mean no offense when I say that.  I can see this issue from your perspective - I used to be a stalwart believer in this stuff.  Can you see this issue from my perspective?


#28    Bionic Bigfoot

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 04:12 PM

View PostNight Walker, on 20 October 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

No disrespect intended but it doesn't mean that you have, either...

Below is a map displaying the population density of Ontario:

Posted Image
http://www12.statcan...tes/m1o-eng.htm

Compare that with a map of Ontario detailing locations of documented Bigfoot sightings/track finds/vocalizations:

Posted Image
http://www.ontariosa...-map/4535347380

Note that the majority of documented Bigfoot encounters are actually in and around the densly populated corner of the province.

Many folk who go out in the field in order to search for Bigfoot are working schmucks (myself included). They/we do not need to take weeks or months off in order to do so - any amount of spare time will do. Finding definitive proof of Bigfoot would be a cash cow (as it remains for the Patterson family even though the film is far from definitive).

So do you have any valid reasons why you do not practice what you preach?

And please take the time to answer my other questions when you get the chance. We may be divided in our personal opinions of Bigfoot but are we not chasing the same thing?

Sorry Night Walker,

I disagree with your maps.  The majority of bigfoot sightings in Ontario occur much further to the north of my area.  The areas you've shown in your bigfoot sightings ranges (and if factual) is dubious.  Bigfoot areas and sightings have mostly taken place several 100's of kilometers north of where I am.  Trust me, there are no major forested areas anywhere near me and any that would encompass more than a few square miles,  in patches.  The majority of Ontarians live within a 150km northerly distance from the USA border.  Most of Ontario, a province almost 1/3 as large as Europe and approximately the size of California, Texas and Florida combined, is just too vast once you get above the 48th parallel. That''s where any sasquatch would reside, not down in the GTA or anywhere in that vicinity.

And again, I myself don't have the luxury to just put everything aside to start scouring the northern regions of Ontario on a hope and prayer, looking for bigfoot.  Those who do this type of research must have more money and resources than I do but again, it doesn't mean that I or any of us in this area believe all the sightings and encounters are legitimate sightings either.

Edited by Bionic Bigfoot, 20 October 2012 - 04:35 PM.


#29    Rafterman

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 05:35 PM

I find it interesting that almost 50 years later, this is still the best "bigfoot" film out there - especially given that these things supposedly live everywhere (hence breeding populations needed across all of North America), more people are spending time outdoors than in recent years, and pretty much everyone has a camera/video camera on their person (many high definition).

Meanwhile the internet is replete with crystal clear HD video of other very rare species.

Personally, the background of both Patterson and Gimlin is enough to make me seriously question the movie.


#30    keninsc

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

View PostRafterman, on 20 October 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

I find it interesting that almost 50 years later, this is still the best "bigfoot" film out there - especially given that these things supposedly live everywhere (hence breeding populations needed across all of North America), more people are spending time outdoors than in recent years, and pretty much everyone has a camera/video camera on their person (many high definition).

Meanwhile the internet is replete with crystal clear HD video of other very rare species.

Personally, the background of both Patterson and Gimlin is enough to make me seriously question the movie.

I agree, first it was the real deal, then Gimlin claimed it had been a fake then he said he was misquoted, thern a couple guys came forward claiming to be the guy in the suit but none of them came produce the suit or a receipt from where they rented it. However, there is one compeling part of that movie that is rarely ever shown and that is the footprints which are photographed later in the movie. They clearly show them making deeper prints than that of the horse, but for some reason that section is hardly ever shown or refered to by anyone. To me, that was the only thing that made me wonder if it wasn't the real deal.


Quote

And again, I myself don't have the luxury to just put everything aside to start scouring the northern regions of Ontario on a hope and prayer, looking for Bigfoot.  Those who do this type of research must have more money and resources than I do but again, it doesn't mean that I or any of us in this area believe all the sightings and encounters are legitimate sightings either.



I seriously doubt anyone is suggesting you drop everything and begin your life's work looking for Bigfoot. I certainly can't do it, much as I would like, however I can get out on occasion and hike around areas where one has been report once or twice a year. However, if all you do is surf the web then pretty much you're going to find dyed in the wool, card carrying believers who are both shocked and upset that you'd dare to question their beliefs. Then you find a board like this one where we have skeptics and those, like myself who are open to the possibility, but we haven't lost our skepticism and look deeper for the truth.

Nothing personal, but if all you want is for a bunch of guys to all give you a hardy high five and a "Great Job Buddy!", then you really need to look else where. This group is honest and rather blunt on what we see, and yes we do have a few that get a little demanding, but no website is perfect. I hope you chose to stay, but if not then good hunting to you.





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