Questions to vegetarians/vegans...?

[Blood_Sacrifice]

If you are already a vegetarian/vegan:

1) Were you raised as one by your parents (and never ate meat your life), or was it a conscious choice on your part?

2) If it was a choice to become a veg. later in life, what was it that fueled that desire to go vegetarian/vegan? (Reason: could be personal, ethical, religious, health related, or even some enlightening book/documentary)

3) When did you take this decision and precisely how long did it take to become one completely?

4) Have you ever relapsed? Like ended up eating meat because a friend requested it, or because you just couldn't deny your taste buds anymore?

5) Do you have this desire to go back and eat a juicy t-bone steak once in a while? How do you control the urge?

6) Do you think your OWN life has changed and become more ... peaceful and meaningful after going vegetarian/vegan?

If you are contemplating vegetarianism/veganism?

1) What made you even think about this path?

2) How much meat do you consume per day?

3) Do you think life will become a prison for you if you go this path?

4) Is there anyone who almost universally hates vegetables and nearly lives on meat but is still thinking of going vegetarian/vegan?

[Border Collie]

If you are already a vegetarian/vegan:

1) Were you raised as one by your parents (and never ate meat your life), or was it a conscious choice on your part?

2) If it was a choice to become a veg. later in life, what was it that fueled that desire to go vegetarian/vegan? (Reason: could be personal, ethical, religious, health related, or even some enlightening book/documentary)

3) When did you take this decision and precisely how long did it take to become one completely?

4) Have you ever relapsed? Like ended up eating meat because a friend requested it, or because you just couldn't deny your taste buds anymore?

5) Do you have this desire to go back and eat a juicy t-bone steak once in a while? How do you control the urge?

6) Do you think your OWN life has changed and become more ... peaceful and meaningful after going vegetarian/vegan?

If you are contemplating vegetarianism/veganism?

1) What made you even think about this path?

2) How much meat do you consume per day?

3) Do you think life will become a prison for you if you go this path?

4) Is there anyone who almost universally hates vegetables and nearly lives on meat but is still thinking of going vegetarian/vegan?

1) No it was a conscious choice.

2) Ethical

3) Quite a few years ago. I did it over a period of around 2 years.

4) No

5) No. There is no urge.

6) Yes I think over a period of time I have changed as a result of the change to my diet.

One thing I do notice. Meat eaters seem to take it as something of a personal issue and demand to know reasons etc. I have had numerous arguments with people who think that my choice of diet gives them the right to criticise or demand a justification. This is not, by the way, a dig at you.

For the record in the light of your 2nd string of questions, I never really liked vegetables. But giving up meat was still the right thing to do.

[XenoFish]

1) Were you raised as one by your parents (and never ate meat your life), or was it a conscious choice on your part?

2) If it was a choice to become a veg. later in life, what was it that fueled that desire to go vegetarian/vegan? (Reason: could be personal, ethical, religious, health related, or even some enlightening book/documentary)

3) When did you take this decision and precisely how long did it take to become one completely?

4) Have you ever relapsed? Like ended up eating meat because a friend requested it, or because you just couldn't deny your taste buds anymore?

5) Do you have this desire to go back and eat a juicy t-bone steak once in a while? How do you control the urge?

6) Do you think your OWN life has changed and become more ... peaceful and meaningful after going vegetarian/vegan?

I made the choice in 2011 because of my health. Apparently double bacon chili cheeseburgers are bad for my heart. So I gave up meat. Went from a heft 280/290 to a slim 220 in a year. No relapses. Don't have the urge to go back to meat eating. Took about 6 months of getting used to the new diet. I freaking love veggie burgers and mushroom burgers now. I still eat eggs, but only if their farm fresh. Not store bought. My temperament seems to have calmed down since I quit eating hormone infested flesh.

Edited April 10, 2015 by XenoFish

[Nnicolette]

I have considered the thought for ethical reasons but im too skinny to limit my diet like that lol. It grosses me out sometimes to eat chunks of dead muscle but it makes everything taste better. I Quit eating pigs after seeing a video of grocery store pork soaking in coca cola and all the worms/maggots climbing out though eww.

[freetoroam]

I will read the answers out of curiosity, I am a meat eater, just like many other of my fellow animals on this planet.

What I find interesting, is the fact that humans are not designed to drink cows milk, but meat? yes we can and it has been a significant component of human evolution.

But if someone chooses to not eat meat, then no meat eater should tell them otherwise, but, on the other hand, no non meat eater should try the same thing. There is NOTHING wrong with eating meat, but there are many things wrong with how animals have been treated by some mass producing companies and this is an issue which must be dealt with...along with halal!!...

Edited April 10, 2015 by freetoroam

[rashore]

Interesting subject, and some great questions.

I can't really answer them, because I'm an omnivore, and always will be. Our household is more produce heavy than the standard U.S. household, but we do still eat meat, dairy, and eggs- and honey

Though I did find question 6 extra interesting. I've found that eating veggies themselves isn't all that peaceful, meaningful, or life changing.. mostly because it's a disconnect, and just as much as meat eating, with buying produce. But I have found as a gardener that growing my own produce is very live changing, and peaceful, and meaningful- because I'm directly connected to my food, from seed to harvest, cooking to eating. And there is really a difference between buying a tomato that was grown miles away, stored, shipped, marketed out- and eating a tomato that is just screaming with life and vitality seconds after it's picked off the plant.

[Magnanimus]

Monsters, monsters the lot of them...

[Podo]

I have thought about going vegatarian, but as a martial artist it is pretty difficult. On paper it works very well, but I've talked to many other martial artists who have tried and and not a single one of them have been able to make it work for more than a year or so. They also talk of not having enough energy, and needing to eat more frequently. Additionally, they have a hard time maintaining muscle density without certain amounts of red meat.

I think if I ever stop doing martial arts I'd give it a try, but mainly just to see if I can. I have no ethical issue with the consumption of animals.

[XenoFish]

My muscle density and size actually increased when I went vegan. I guess it came from pouring more nutrients into my body. Instead of empty calories. My wife chose it because of the treatment of animals. I chose for my health and eventually I started to dislike the idea of dead flesh rotting in my guts. To each their own I suppose.

[GlitterRose]

Apparently double bacon chili cheeseburgers are bad for my heart.

Lawl.

Who'd have thought?

[XenoFish]

But they tasted so good.

Same with the peanut butter and bacon sandwiches I ate. I get chest pains just thinking about them.

I'm addicted to portobello burgers now.

Edited April 11, 2015 by XenoFish

[Shiloh17]

I recently started eating Boca soy burgers. They taste really good to me. But I eat meat too, fish, turkey and chicken mainly.

[Magnanimus]

I have thought about going vegatarian, but as a martial artist it is pretty difficult. On paper it works very well, but I've talked to many other martial artists who have tried and and not a single one of them have been able to make it work for more than a year or so. They also talk of not having enough energy, and needing to eat more frequently. Additionally, they have a hard time maintaining muscle density without certain amounts of red meat.

I think if I ever stop doing martial arts I'd give it a try, but mainly just to see if I can. I have no ethical issue with the consumption of animals.

That's because when people talk about vegetables being more nutritious, they're using the word colloquially and not accurately, like when people use the word "decimate" when they mean "devastate."

Meat and animal by-products are far and above more nutritious, based on caloric energy and nutrient availability. Granted, your vegetables have certain vital nutrients, like Vitamin C, but they don't provide nearly enough energy or nutrition to sustain any active study of a discipline as demanding as a martial art. We've got a First-World Problem because we have meat and other high-energy foods in such quantity, we end up storing too much energy as fat. Vegetables have become healthy for us because of what a pathetic excuse for a foodstuff they actually are. Celery is only "nutritious" because it has a net-negative nutrient value and requires more energy to digest than humans can extract from it.

If we were obligate herbivores (which don't actually exist, herbivores eat meat when given the chance, just can't get it regularly) we'd have the enzymes and gut bacteria to break down plant matter efficiently enough to thrive off it… And we'd have a chambered stomach like a cow. But seeing as we don't, the proteins, calories, and fat-soluble vitamins of meat are much more accessible to us.

Even if you go with a crazy protein-dense vegetable, like soy beans, you have a trade-off. People complain about "hormones in meat" and "hormones in milk" but the Good Lord put them there, there supposed to be there. Hormones occur in all meat and milk naturally, are part of the cycles of the natural order, and are mostly broken down into raw amino acids by the digestive tract before they're absorbed. Soy beans are different. They've spent a couple million years refining their hormone content with the specific goal of drugging the animals that consume them. They're chock full o' phytoestrogens--biologically similar compounds to our estrogens, but designed to get into our systems to decrease male fertility and desynchronize female menstrual cycles in order to limit our abilities to reproduce and make more things to feed off them. Actually, the first generations of birth control pills were made from soy phytoestrogens.

It's tragically ironic, but there are a lot of concerned parents who only feed their kids soy milk because PETA and their fellows, the dread harbingers of Organic doom, have released enough propaganda to convince people that the hormones in milk will make children go through early puberty. For one, unless those kids are themselves cows in clever disguise, the synthetic bovine growth hormone that was used for a brief time, by small dairies with lower producing cows, before market preference made them stop, won't have that effect. And even if someone did drink milk from a cow treated with the synthetic hormone, there's a difference in milk hormone levels thats only detectable in something like the parts per million or billion. Soy milk, however, is fine for adults and even children in certain amounts, but is much more likely to influence an earlier onset to puberty, especially if its consumed in heavy quantities. But how likely could that be? It's not like soy milk is essentially a flavored concoction that's more Nesquik and protein shake than actual "milk." And when have we known children to over-indulge on sugary, flavored crap?

[Atuke]

If you are already a vegetarian/vegan:

1) Were you raised as one by your parents (and never ate meat your life), or was it a conscious choice on your part?

2) If it was a choice to become a veg. later in life, what was it that fueled that desire to go vegetarian/vegan? (Reason: could be personal, ethical, religious, health related, or even some enlightening book/documentary)

3) When did you take this decision and precisely how long did it take to become one completely?

4) Have you ever relapsed? Like ended up eating meat because a friend requested it, or because you just couldn't deny your taste buds anymore?

5) Do you have this desire to go back and eat a juicy t-bone steak once in a while? How do you control the urge?

6) Do you think your OWN life has changed and become more ... peaceful and meaningful after going vegetarian/vegan?

If you are contemplating vegetarianism/veganism?

1) What made you even think about this path?

2) How much meat do you consume per day?

3) Do you think life will become a prison for you if you go this path?

4) Is there anyone who almost universally hates vegetables and nearly lives on meat but is still thinking of going vegetarian/vegan?

Very good topic and well thought out and written.

It was very easy for me to become a vegan. I feel I have a kindred spirit with animals of all kinds, wild and domestic. I put animals on the same level as humanity, and in my world killing and murdering them for food and sustenence is equivalent to slavery and Nazi camps. I wasn't raised this way by any means, it just came to me and I can't help how I feel. I don't eat for pleasure, I eat for need...much like animals do. If you get away from gluttony, life is much more fulfilling in other ways. I still enjoy candies etc, but I shy away from animal products. Animals are as important and have a right to happiness and life as do people. So anything other than pure sustenence when it comes to eating animals is murder imo. And for the record, the juicy steak or tasty burger you eat by itself is not that damn appetizing. You are tasting the condiments for the most part, not the meat. Try eating for need instead of pleasure, and get away from eating dead animals, you'll love life a lot more.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Atuke

[Frank Merton]

As a Buddhist I believe in maximum compassion and respect for all sentient beings. As a rationalist I think that the evidence indicates sentience originated in the dinosaur-like mammals and so today is found only in birds and mammals. It is also pretty plain that sentience started at a pretty "low" level and evolved into the self-awareness and intelligence we see in people today only quite late.

I pretend to no theory as to what sentience is or where it comes from, but it does seem to create a moral dilemma to kill something sentient so long as we have such strong doubt that it is mechanical in origin.

Still, moral issues are never black and white -- which is better, to keep a farm animal in good health and safe and comfortable conditions until the time for slaughter arrives, and then do it humanely and without causing fear, or have the animal live a miserable, short, constantly fearful, painful life as is provided almost all of the time in nature?

I generally don't eat meat, mainly because animal husbandry is not the pleasant thing I just described and most farm animals are miserable. Also of course the consumption of meat greatly increases one's footprint on the environment. I don't however insist that eating meat by itself is morally unacceptable under all conditions.

[Ozfactor]

Vegetarian for 35 years . Still get cravings, that is why mock meats are so popular with vegetarians, the taste and the texture is very meatish, if vegetarians didn't crave meat, they wouldn't eat 'pretend' meat burgers etc . I crave eggs, so I sometimes eat them, but I think that is because something must be lacking in my diet , minerals or vitamins or calcium ? . Lack of iron is a ongoing problem, so I take liquid iron often .

In the 80's when I became vegetarian my parents had never heard of such a thing and assumed I would shrivel up and die !

There was only 2 types of veg cheese in the 80s , Watsonia and Nimbin , but the major supermarkets now are mostly animal rennet free cheese and the vegetarian sections in the supermarkets, both in the deli and the freezer section , is wonderful , compared to the days of tofu being the only choice

Edited April 11, 2015 by Ozfactor

[She-ra]

I made the choice in 2011 because of my health. Apparently double bacon chili cheeseburgers are bad for my heart. So I gave up meat. Went from a heft 280/290 to a slim 220 in a year. No relapses. Don't have the urge to go back to meat eating. Took about 6 months of getting used to the new diet. I freaking love veggie burgers and mushroom burgers now. I still eat eggs, but only if their farm fresh. Not store bought. My temperament seems to have calmed down since I quit eating hormone infested flesh.

BRAVO on that XenoFish! That's a lot of weight to lose in a year! Good job!!

Vegetarian for 35 years . Still get cravings, that is why mock meats are so popular with vegetarians, the taste and the texture is very meatish, if vegetarians didn't crave meat, they wouldn't eat 'pretend' meat burgers etc . I crave eggs, so I sometimes eat them, but I think that is because something must be lacking in my diet , minerals or vitamins or calcium ? . Lack of iron is a ongoing problem, so I take liquid iron often .

In the 80's when I became vegetarian my parents had never heard of such a thing and assumed I would shrivel up and die !

There was only 2 types of veg cheese in the 80s , Watsonia and Nimbin , but the major supermarkets now are mostly animal rennet free cheese and the vegetarian sections in the supermarkets, both in the deli and the freezer section , is wonderful , compared to the days of tofu being the only choice

I think that's exactly right. I think when you crave something it's because your body is lacking in some sort of nutrient

Nice thread Blood_Sacrifice...and i believe to each their own. I don't understand why some have to stick their noses into the choices other people make with food. It's no one's business.

I'm an omnivore but I do eat as healthy as possible (with occasional cheating)

My son chose to go the vegetarian route and he stayed with it for 2 years. He was a young teen so I had to really focus on creative cooking for him. It was a nice adventure. He ended up going back to eating everything again but he did this for a complete 2 years. He was just experimenting and doing this to see where it led him and how it made him feel so I supported him every step of the way. I did make him take a multivitamin during this time because....well, it's a mother's prerogative to worry and all that

I have only been able to drop weight when eating proteins and vegetables and little to no sugars and/or limited carb's. I think that's just my body though. Other's have had successes in other ways of eating but for me I need to stick with healthy proteins and vegetables and some fruits. I feel best this way. Anyways, nice thread

Edited April 11, 2015 by She-ra

[XenoFish]

I'd have abs in a month if I could quit sugar.

[Atuke]

As a Buddhist I believe in maximum compassion and respect for all sentient beings. As a rationalist I think that the evidence indicates sentience originated in the dinosaur-like mammals and so today is found only in birds and mammals. It is also pretty plain that sentience started at a pretty "low" level and evolved into the self-awareness and intelligence we see in people today only quite late.

I pretend to no theory as to what sentience is or where it comes from, but it does seem to create a moral dilemma to kill something sentient so long as we have such strong doubt that it is mechanical in origin.

Still, moral issues are never black and white -- which is better, to keep a farm animal in good health and safe and comfortable conditions until the time for slaughter arrives, and then do it humanely and without causing fear, or have the animal live a miserable, short, constantly fearful, painful life as is provided almost all of the time in nature?

I generally don't eat meat, mainly because animal husbandry is not the pleasant thing I just described and most farm animals are miserable. Also of course the consumption of meat greatly increases one's footprint on the environment. I don't however insist that eating meat by itself is morally unacceptable under all conditions.

Wow nicely written and I've always admired Buddists. In fact I wish we had more here in the US. Pretty much everything you wrote describes myself. I hope people can realize these are sentient beings we are raising and murdering for food. It's that simple and that's what it is. There is no humane way about it, it's plain murder.

Now if you go out with your bare hands and hunt down your prey for sustenence, like a true predator, I can respect that.

[Magnanimus]

Still, moral issues are never black and white -- which is better, to keep a farm animal in good health and safe and comfortable conditions until the time for slaughter arrives, and then do it humanely and without causing fear, or have the animal live a miserable, short, constantly fearful, painful life as is provided almost all of the time in nature?

I generally don't eat meat, mainly because animal husbandry is not the pleasant thing I just described and most farm animals are miserable. Also of course the consumption of meat greatly increases one's footprint on the environment. I don't however insist that eating meat by itself is morally unacceptable under all conditions.

I'm sorry mate, but the virtues of my order mandate that I say something. Everything I do on here with religion and mythology I do as a part of my hobby, my discipline, for "****s-and-gigs," if you will.

In real life, I'm a student at a land-grant university with my primary degree in Animal Science, plus some change, and applying to veterinary school at the moment. My undignified snark earlier about vegans being monsters isn't that far from the truth for us. Veganism literally posses an existential threat to medicine, veterinary and otherwise, and the continued existence of the animals I've dedicated my life to. Do you know what happens to the billion-and-a-half or so cows if they're no longer a food animal? They go extinct. Same with fifty billion or so chickens hatched each year. Pigs, set wild, become a nuisance species that can actually pose a predatory threat to humans if they go unchecked. And those are just the regularly consumed ones. I could go through the whole barn yard, but you can get a similar picture by feeding a Speak-N-Say through a wood chipper. Domestic animals die horrible, suffering deaths without their people, far crueler than anything nature could devise on her own.

If I want to be coldly scientific and play the Richard Dawkins line of thought, domestic animals are getting the absolute best deal of any species to have ever existed. Animals don't have individual inspirations, there aren't any goats waxing philosophical. They live for the good and continuation of their species. The deal they get with us is a guaranteed continuation of their species and their best genes with constant support, indescribably better nourishment, and protection from predators. It's somewhere between a utopian society and Nirvana for them.

"But Mags," you say, "what about those excruciating videos PETA puts out? How could anyone let animals be treated like that?"

Oh, we are well aware of those videos. And I know I'm courting a "No True Scotsman" argument here, but that's what PETA lives for. There are b******* out there who abuse the sacred stewardship and responsibility they have to their animals, but those are incredibly rare and usually dealt with to the harshest letter of the law. Usually, PETA needs to go over the boarder to the cartel-lands where there's no such thing as regulation. That, or they use a disgruntled worker to get access to and stage videos.

There was one that came out a few months ago about mistreated dairy cattle, being forced to eat in knee-deep manure swamps and half-starved… Except the cows are never shown eating, are completely spotless (well, manure-less, they're properly spotted Holsteins) from the knee up, and show no signs of injury or lameness that would be unavoidable in the conditions the video describes. And when it came out that those cows were at the last stage of lactation (when the animals don't even bother creating fat tissue and burn off their energy stores), being intentionally led by an ex-employee, seeking to slander the dairy, through the barn reserved for manure storage and nothing else, PETA was oddly silent.

Or there are the videos they make in poultry farms using the horror movie shaky-cam technique that look dark and hellish and insanely overcrowded. Apart from violating a dozen federal regulations regarding bio-security while making these videos and endangering public health, they count on people over-anthropomorphizing the animals. Then they parley that public lack of understanding into direct democratic legislation that creates dangerous environments for those very animals. California produces a substantial amount of poultry, but because of new regulations voted in by the well-meaning citizens with no training or experience with the animals, problems ensued. Population density was a big one. See, chickens are a type of bird, and birds flock in large numbers. Thinning out those numbers doesn't mean the chickens flock in smaller groups, it means their stress levels sky-rocket, they begin in-fighting with each other, and they freaking eat the injured ones. A similar thing happens with sows and the runts of their litters. But hey, survival of the fittest, right? Not at all easily avoided carnage.

I know I'm railing on about PETA and the vast, vast, vast majority of their members and contributors are ardent animal-lovers, looking to do the right thing. It's their active members at the organizational level that bother me. Not just my knee-jerk reaction to their intentional misinformation, being an expert in bull**** and all (buh-dum-ching!), but because they, along with the Animal Liberation Front, are a constant, domestic terrorist threat to me and mine. Veterinary schools take active security measures and have protocols specifically to prevent them from gaining access to our facilities or potentially sensitive information, like building layouts and vulnerable points. And we're the ones trying to fix the animals; God-forbid we have any contact with the animals that need us.

Really, I have no problem with people making the personal choice not to eat meat or animal by-product, it really comes down to their individual situations and is a matter of taste (no pun intended). What matters to me is when veganism transitions from a fad-diet into a morally-justified dogma; there are enough jihadists out there perverting gospel and spreading misinformation. When something becomes your moral imperative, it doesn't matter whether or not reality supports your notion, the continuation of the dogma becomes the priority. I've worked with lab animals--on lab animals--and can directly apply my absolutely humane and unequivocal training to the betterment and aid of each species. That doesn't matter when a dinner request has become a statement of moral justice. I'm just as guilty, in their world-view, as any mad scientist that electrocutes monkeys to see if they get depressed, or the guys who beat circus elephants into psychosis, or the rancher who abandons a herd of horses in a closed pasture for a decade.

I have benefitted from animal "suffering".

[She-ra]

I'd have abs in a month if I could quit sugar.

Oh yea I hear THAT buddy! I would be so much smaller too. Sugar is an evil toxin and is one of my main downfalls. I hide M&M's from my son for my cheats. If I cut out sugar I would probably lose a good deal of weight pretty quickly. It's evil; but oh so yummy

[Border Collie]

Magnanimous;

Seriously? Like, the way cows and factory farmed hens are treated? Sorry but I can't take this ridiculous argument seriously.

[freetoroam]

No doubt there was a time when man hunted for food, like all animals, and if it included meat, then that was a matter of survival. Today not all animals are killed inhumanely, I will not give up meat and know where mine comes from.....but I am skeptical about the products which replace it and if you have to take vitamin substitutes because you are not getting enough protein, then something has gone wrong. I can not see how man made substitutes can be better for you than the real thing.

But in terms of health, it all depends on how you cook it, if someone decides to live of vegetables and fries their daily chips, is that healthy?

[XenoFish]

There's a guy on youtube by the name of Frank Medrano who's a vegan athlete. I wish I could do have the stuff he can do with bodyweight alone.

[Magnanimus]

Magnanimous;

Seriously? Like, the way cows and factory farmed hens are treated? Sorry but I can't take this ridiculous argument seriously.

I don't want to put you on the spot or anything, but how many "factory farms" do you regularly frequent?

It sounds pretty tin-foil hat-ish, but a lot of public knowledge about factory farms is propaganda, largely supported by groups that just want you to by their more expensive "free-range" stuff. I'm on a medical track, but run in the same circles as the people who grew up on producing farms. They tend to be too polite to say much, but when someone just casually mentions the words "factory farms," you can see them twitch. It's like if Pepsi launched an extensive advertising campaign to label Coke "industrial organ dissolver."

What most people picture for a factory farm is a beef cattle feed lot, with acres of dirt and Black Angus lined up shoulder-to-shoulder with their faces forced into troughs. Only thing is, those are cattle brought in off the range where they spend most of their time. What gets filmed for documentaries like Food Inc. is really just the cattle cafeteria at lunchtime, because that's where the largest buildings and infrastructure are, versus miles of open range. And that's only in a very large scale range operation out West. In Tennessee, we mostly run pasture systems with smaller herds.

As far as chickens, that's an animal you and I can hardly relate to. They've got more in common with velociraptors than us. I personally hit my limit in the poultry house used to raise them from chicks. It's dank, dark, heated to over a hundred degrees, reeks of ammonia, and the air is so humid, it's nearly palpable... but it does wonders for them. They're originally a tropical species and naturally run about three or four degree hotter than we do and need the heat and humidity and all of those conditions to continue growing. Same deal with the dark. The controlled lighting games their biochemistry into thinking it's a different season so they have extended periods of growth each day. And the ammonia? That's from them, it's the white part of their poo. Farmers have it constantly monitored to make sure it stays at safe levels and have automated vents to clear the house if it ever got to a dangerous level, as well as constantly test the pH of the bedding to make sure it doesn't irritate the chickens' feet. It's a good way to control bacteria growth without having to drug the birds with a litany of antibiotics that leave residues in the meat (colossal no-no for any animal product).

But you mentioned hens, so I'm guessing you mean all of those laying hens in the tiny cages with the chutes underneath? They actually prefer the snugness, it gives them a sense of security for the same reason you see birds nesting in tiny birdhouses. Limited access from the front means their eggs stay safe from predators. It also contributes to solving the cannibalism problem I mentioned. And as far as the chutes go, its a way to harvest the eggs without disturbing the hens. They can be territorial about their nesting boxes and fight among each other, especially when they have eggs to defend. But then, we're the species that invented wifi and windsurfing, so we're plenty capable of removing a hen from her eggs. Instead of stressing her out by "stealing" from her, the chutes collect the eggs and the hen has one of those, "I know I left my keys here, somewhere," moments and continues to produce eggs as long as her nest remains empty.

Also keep in mind, that's only one depiction of one production strategy at one facility (possibly not even in this country) specifically chosen by a group of people with an agenda, trying to use sensationalism to get an emotional reaction out of you. All of the ones I've been to were designed differently.

And even if you want to think the absolute worst of farmers, keep in mind what the animals represent. That's their income. They have plenty of land-wealth, but I've never seen a farmer with a Rolex. Most can't afford the loss of income and fines that come with negligence and cruelty. If a dairyman gives his cows a drug that leaves a residue in the milk and it gets detected by the guy who comes to collect it, that's half a week's worth of product that goes down the drain. God-forbid, if the tanker gets filled up and then the residue tests come back positive. That could be $30-50K, or more, that farmer is now responsible for.

Animals are not mass-producible. They can be raised in large herds, but there are definite limits and those limits are always respected. It's in the every best interest of a farmer to make sure his animals are happy, contented, fed, and housed, especially since most get paid by the weight. Animals don't put up fat and build up meat when they're under stress, nor do cows give milk, nor do hens lay eggs. Yeah, there are douchebags in France who force feed geese until their livers are buttery enough to melt over freaking popcorn, but here in the civilized world, what conceivable reason would a farmer ever have to hurt his herd?

Morality, practicality, profitability, legality, and, most of all, reputation and a continued good name keep farmers from any of the shady stuff you heard about that one time at that place, so it has to be that way everywhere. Plus, these cattle have an easy 1100 pounds on us a-piece, and I'm pretty sure the chickens can make up for it in numbers. And pigs will literally just eat us down to belt buckles and boot lace eyelets. There's a complicit role played on the animals' part. I've personally not ruled it out entirely that horses only let us ride on them as some form of dress-up, like how you or I would wear a rather interesting hat.