Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

women special or equal?


  • Please log in to reply
63 replies to this topic

#46    libstaK

libstaK

    Nosce Te Ipsum

  • 6,621 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

  • Hello Reality and all that is True
    When Oxymoron was defined it was just for you

Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:53 PM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 03 October 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Not a fair comparison...we will never be in that situation...you assume men would not be able to handle it better...pure speculation...

Also, do I need to explain to you how women give birth? Their cervic expands, to 9 inches in diameter and gains elasticity. Even though that happens, women still often tare or need to be cut for the baby to fit through. When women do it without drugs, they normally beg for drugs to reduce the pain and make it easier. I am pretty sure a man could beg for drugs and push something big out if they had the anatomy to do that...
Women will also never be in the situation of being able to build muscle mass to the same extent as men nor are we susceptible to the effects of testosterone, so to suggest we are the equal to a man in a physical arena is on average also not a fair comparison - there are exceptions, mostly with the help of steroid and the less common biological exceptions but the averages are not in our favour.  That does not make us "unequal" in any legal sense just different and the statistics of crime support that.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#47    CommunitarianKevin

CommunitarianKevin

    Fact Corrector

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,279 posts
  • Joined:10 Mar 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Apple Valley, MN. Wrestling Capital of the U.S.

  • Now we know that heedless self-interests is bad economics.-FDR

Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:26 PM

View PostbLu3 de 3n3rgy, on 03 October 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

As for equality - for as long as women are under pressure or trying to be equal with men, in a patriarchal society, neither gender is doing one another any favours trying to mash out what equality should be. My view is strong that true equality is something that will find it's rightful balance when society begins to recognise each gender for it's strengths, as well as it's weakness, and uniqueness and stops trying to make one conform under the other, and moves away from a patriarchal dominate society into one that encompasses a balance of both.
Here is the problem. Women make crappy firefighters because they cannot drag my fat ass out of a burning building...but yet women feel discriminated against when the standards are upped, which eliminates them from being firefighters. To recognize women's weaknesses would be not allowing them to do certain jobs, but women view this as sexist and discriminating.

On the same note, women are better with small motor skills which makes them better surgens. Does this mean men should not be surgens?

It seems that if we use science there are clearly some things that women are better at and that men are better at, but in our society that is seen as unequal and discriminating. If women are unequal at some things, and men are unequal at some things, we must assume they are special. Looking at my first argument, you cannot be special an equal...so are women special, or equal?

View PostlibstaK, on 03 October 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Women will also never be in the situation of being able to build muscle mass to the same extent as men nor are we susceptible to the effects of testosterone, so to suggest we are the equal to a man in a physical arena is on average also not a fair comparison - there are exceptions, mostly with the help of steroid and the less common biological exceptions but the averages are not in our favour.  That does not make us "unequal" in any legal sense just different and the statistics of crime support that.

YES! But, a 200 lb woman is physically dominate to a 100 lb man. I dominate a muscle bound man that is 130 lbs just because of my weight...I know this because I have done it...A big woman can dominate a man...

So women are different? So they need special treatment? If they need special treament, why should they not be discriminated against in special cases (such as dragging my pass-out-ass out of a burning building?

My screen names may change. My real name is Kevin. You can call me that in the threads...
My "about me" page...
http://www.unexplain...showentry=24860
http://athans-athansblog.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/KevinAthans

#48    libstaK

libstaK

    Nosce Te Ipsum

  • 6,621 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

  • Hello Reality and all that is True
    When Oxymoron was defined it was just for you

Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:43 PM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 03 October 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

YES! But, a 200 lb woman is physically dominate to a 100 lb man. I dominate a muscle bound man that is 130 lbs just because of my weight...I know this because I have done it...A big woman can dominate a man...

So women are different? So they need special treatment? If they need special treament, why should they not be discriminated against in special cases (such as dragging my pass-out-ass out of a burning building?
You're talking about physical weight - if you want to compare apples to apples then there has to be comparable MUSCLE MASS.  A 200lb woman could be obese and prone to a heart attack if she lifted anything heavier than your arm much less having the capacity to drag you out of a burning building.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#49    CommunitarianKevin

CommunitarianKevin

    Fact Corrector

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,279 posts
  • Joined:10 Mar 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Apple Valley, MN. Wrestling Capital of the U.S.

  • Now we know that heedless self-interests is bad economics.-FDR

Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:58 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 03 October 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

You're talking about physical weight - if you want to compare apples to apples then there has to be comparable MUSCLE MASS.  A 200lb woman could be obese and prone to a heart attack if she lifted anything heavier than your arm much less having the capacity to drag you out of a burning building.

So are you arguing that a woman could not pull me out of a burning building?

And yes, I am talking about physical weight...because in the real world things are based on more than 1 factor. A muscle bound 250 lb man will dominate a muscle bound 150 lb man...just like a 250 lb woman will dominate a muscle bound 100 lb man.

If we are going to base things on a single factor, then why not say "women are not physcially capable, they cannot do physical jobs," or should we evaluate different traits (discrimination based on ability,) or should we say everyone is equal and has an equal oppertunity and equal right to everything (including the law?)

I do not really see how a woman, being less capable than a man (based on your opinion of muscle mass,) should be given the same rights, which makes a woman unequal...see my first post...

Edited by HuttonEtAl, 03 October 2012 - 02:00 PM.

My screen names may change. My real name is Kevin. You can call me that in the threads...
My "about me" page...
http://www.unexplain...showentry=24860
http://athans-athansblog.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/KevinAthans

#50    Mantis914

Mantis914

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,088 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lone Star State

  • You have shown me a strange image, and they are strange prisoners. Plato

Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:16 PM

I've found that women are better than men in language.  I've always heard that females talk earlier as babies, use more words in a day and use more uncommon words.  I find this true as when I was single and out with friends, we could tell each other stuff by non-verbal actions and now that I'm married, I talk even less.


#51    libstaK

libstaK

    Nosce Te Ipsum

  • 6,621 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

  • Hello Reality and all that is True
    When Oxymoron was defined it was just for you

Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 03 October 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

So are you arguing that a woman could not pull me out of a burning building?
If she did not have the muscle mass that was capable of pulling a grown man out, obviously she could not do it. If a man did not have the muscle mass he could not do it either.

Quote

And yes, I am talking about physical weight...because in the real world things are based on more than 1 factor. A muscle bound 250 lb man will dominate a muscle bound 150 lb man...just like a 250 lb woman will dominate a muscle bound 100 lb man.
There you go, neglecting the apples to apples comparison conveniently leaving out the "muscle" equation in your second example "250 lb woman" to support your first which clearly spoke about muscle for both the "muscle bound 250 lb man" and "muscle bound 150 lb man".

That doesn't leave you with a position to discuss against quite frankly.

Quote

If we are going to base things on a single factor, then why not say "women are not physcially capable, they cannot do physical jobs," or should we evaluate different traits (discrimination based on ability,) or should we say everyone is equal and has an equal oppertunity and equal right to everything (including the law?)
I didn't say woman were "not physically capable".  I am saying that each individual has different physical capabilities and that men in general dominate biologically in the amount of muscle mass they carry, there in the matter of LIFTING WEIGHTS AND PHYSICAL FORCE they will GENERALLY hold an advantage over a woman who is carrying less muscle mass regardless of weight.

Quote

I do not really see how a woman, being less capable than a man (based on your opinion of muscle mass,) should be given the same rights, which makes a woman unequal...see my first post...
What do "rights" have to do with it?  A woman has the same rights as a man, each has the right to be judged on what they are physically capable of achieving and also on the consequences thereof - see MY first post.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#52    Hartmut

Hartmut

    -

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 185 posts
  • Joined:21 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Without artists, the worlds would be,
    like a world without flowers and butterflies.

Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:21 PM

Actually it is quite simple:

Do whatever you like - provided it does not harm anyone!
And that simple, one law should apply - to everything we do,
not just for the 'battle' between women and men.



#53    Lilly

Lilly

    Forum Divinity

  • 16,149 posts
  • Joined:16 Apr 2004
  • Gender:Female

  • "To thine own self be true" William Shakespeare

Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:21 PM

Physical brute strength is not the determining factor in social equality. If this was the case then children and elderly people (as well as females) would be considered as being 'less than equal'. If you desire social value to be based on pysical strength alone you're not going to find such in most developed 21st century societies.

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

"All that live must die, passing through nature into eternity" ~Shakespeare~ Posted Image

#54    libstaK

libstaK

    Nosce Te Ipsum

  • 6,621 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

  • Hello Reality and all that is True
    When Oxymoron was defined it was just for you

Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:37 PM

View PostHartmut, on 03 October 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Actually it is quite simple:

Do whatever you like - provided it does not harm anyone!
And that simple, one law should apply - to everything we do,
not just for the 'battle' between women and men.

Amen to that.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#55    Amy the Mighty

Amy the Mighty

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 90 posts
  • Joined:12 Feb 2012

Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:51 PM

Assault is assault. It doesn't matter what sex you are - the "don't be an a***hole" rule applies equally.


#56    King Fluffs

King Fluffs

    The Resident Misanthrope

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,111 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England

  • Shadows protect my angel in white...

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:59 PM

I know some women who are stronger than alot of the blokes I know...

It's an odd feeling to have when you know a female friend of yours would have to fight off a would be attacker for you. :lol:


#57    Bling

Bling

    Psychic Spy

  • Closed
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,384 posts
  • Joined:25 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:48 PM

View Postbones101proof, on 02 October 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Lol, Does that mean I must address you fro now on as Princess Bling? Or how about "Your Blingness" lol

Princess Bling will do. Don't forget to bow also. ;)


#58    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,039 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The sixth circle

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:16 AM

View PostEldorado, on 03 October 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Women are special because they can give birth.  Sperm is ten a penny.
Just because they can doesn't mean they all should.


#59    Orcseeker

Orcseeker

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,745 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:57 AM

I heard women have a stronger pain threshold (I think this could be attributed to a natural adaption of having to go through childbirth) than a man. As far as abuse is concerned there are all different kinds of it. Physical, emotional etc. Both genders are equally as capable of any. A man can take down a giant tree with some effort, all he needs to be is prepared. The same goes for size differences in people, maybe if you drop a skinny guy and a pro mma fighter into a ring to battle it out the outcome would be obvious. However, in other circumstances, with a plan and some preparation, the skinny guy could come out on top.


#60    John Rayne

John Rayne

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 58 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • Joseph Campbell - “Life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved”

Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:24 AM

This is rather old-fashoned, but I believe in equality in all things other than self-defense.  Such as; As a man I would not like to see a woman on the front lines simply because I find women more special than men.  Such as if there were 3 people, myself, 1 man, and 1 woman in a gas station.  We can even say I do not know these 2 people.  Now, something happens!  Nobody move, robbery, hands in the air!  The cashier starts to resist and fight the robbers and they start shooting. It all happend so fast and they turned in our direction.  The man is on my left, woman on right, ---  I am jumping right and taking that woman down out of fire.  That's just me.  No woman goes crazy and killing everyone with assault rifle and I'm only one there with a gun --- she's down.  

And after re-reading this I will still post but like to add that this seems very sexist but it is out of love not looking down or thinking less of a woman... if that makes sense





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users