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New expedition to find Tasmanian Tiger


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#16    Yowie

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:19 PM

View PostNight Walker, on 14 May 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

No.

stultification - derision of someone or something as foolish or absurd or inconsistent. http://www.thefreedi.../Stultification

Not derision. Simply pointing out another potential example of confirmation bias in action. Believing is Seeing in the world of cryptozoology and McAllister's multiple sighting claims of a mainland thylacine highlight that bias and diminish the validity of his Tasmanian thylacine sightings. Enthusiasm for the cause can be both a blessing and a curse...

But if you make the statement that Mainland sightings highlight a bias and diminish the validity of the Tasmanian sightings, then it appears that you consider mainland evidence absurd or ambiguous at the best, which makes my original statement true.  Are you basing the "confirmation bias" statement soley at Murray McAllister or everyone else who has claimed a mainland sighting?  Are you claiming that he has never made a mainland Thylacine sighting himself? (which could be true), or that all mainland thylacine sightings are absurd and highlight a bias towards the believe in the continued existence of the species in Tasmania?  How is the evidence towards a mainland sighting comparied to a Tasmanian sighting any more ambiguous when neither party has any real tangible evidence yet?  Your choice of highlighting technique towards mainland sightings didn't appear to highlight a simple example of comfirmation bias in action to me, but more like stultification in action.


#17    Ashotep

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:07 AM

I wish they could find one, that would be great.  Especially since they are afraid the Devil may go extinct because of that contagious cancer.


#18    Night Walker

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 09:54 PM

View PostYowie, on 14 May 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

But if you make the statement that Mainland sightings highlight a bias and diminish the validity of the Tasmanian sightings, then it appears that you consider mainland evidence absurd or ambiguous at the best, which makes my original statement true.  Are you basing the "confirmation bias" statement soley at Murray McAllister or everyone else who has claimed a mainland sighting?  Are you claiming that he has never made a mainland Thylacine sighting himself? (which could be true), or that all mainland thylacine sightings are absurd and highlight a bias towards the believe in the continued existence of the species in Tasmania?  How is the evidence towards a mainland sighting comparied to a Tasmanian sighting any more ambiguous when neither party has any real tangible evidence yet?  Your choice of highlighting technique towards mainland sightings didn't appear to highlight a simple example of comfirmation bias in action to me, but more like stultification in action.

Claiming to have sighted the thylacine 200 times whilst specifically searching for it yet with no confirmatory evidence other than misidentifications is virtually the definition of confirmation bias, is it not?

If the thylacine has avoided extinction then it would have done so in Tasmania – its last known habitat. There is no evidence of a mainland thylacine for thousands of years since the introduction of the dingo. If McAllister is mistaken by numerous mainland sightings then it is likely that he is making the same mistakes in Tasmania.

I still don’t see what derision (contemptuous ridicule or mockery) has to do with questioning the validity of his claims…

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#19    DieChecker

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:24 AM

View PostNight Walker, on 14 May 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

Tasmanian Tiger Back On the Prowl? Not So Fast
Brett Israel
Date: 17 November 2010 Time: 09:21 AM ET

Scientists are unconvinced by the video, which originally surfaced last year.

"In my opinion, the video clearly shows a red fox running across the paddock, not a thylacine," said Jeremy Austin, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Adelaide in South Australia.

Other scientists agree. The animal's gait gives it away, said Cameron Campbell of the Thylacine Museum, a website dedicated to Tasmanian tigers. Campbell said in an email that he and his fellow thylacine researchers all agree that the animal shown in the video is certainly a red fox (Vulpes vulpes), a species introduced to Australia from Europe in the mid-1800s. Since then, red foxes have spread across the continent.

Austin said the man who shot the video, Murray McAllister, sent him DNA samples of the supposed thylacine for testing. The samples tested positive for red fox.

i was going to say it very much looked like a fox, rather then a taz tiger.

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#20    Myles

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:27 AM

View PostNight Walker, on 15 May 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Claiming to have sighted the thylacine 200 times whilst specifically searching for it yet with no confirmatory evidence other than misidentifications is virtually the definition of confirmation bias, is it not?

If the thylacine has avoided extinction then it would have done so in Tasmania – its last known habitat. There is no evidence of a mainland thylacine for thousands of years since the introduction of the dingo. If McAllister is mistaken by numerous mainland sightings then it is likely that he is making the same mistakes in Tasmania.

I still don’t see what derision (contemptuous ridicule or mockery) has to do with questioning the validity of his claims…

However, the odds of it's existance is far greater than that of bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster or a giant flying bird.


#21    DieChecker

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:27 AM

I think the chance of the tazmanian tiger still running around is better then zero. I just looked over a bunch of youtube videos that supposedly show thylicines, but most appear to be dogs, or foxes, or edited hoaxes.

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#22    psyche101

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:59 AM

View PostYowie, on 14 May 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Forgive me if I interpret this the wrong way, but is it true to say that your use of highlighting technique caries an undertone of stultification towards the above statement?

For those not familiar with claims of Thylacine sightings in Australia, mainland sightings are the most disputed by the Boffins.  Often claims arise in areas of rainforest or thick scrub environments which are quickly discredited by scientists that say that the Thylacine was an animal of open plains and would have certainly been seen if it still existed.  We do know for sure that they existed on the mainland from fossil evidence, with the Tasmanian population surviving thanks to geographical isolation from the Dingo.  But who knows what the characteristics of the mainland Thylacine were?  No one has ever had a chance to study them or their ecological niche?  Convergent evolution allowed the Thylacine to exclusively occupy the same ecological niche as the dog here in Australia, and in the rest of the world the dog managed to adapt to nearly every environmental niche on the planet.  Is it really stretching the limit of science for a previously undetected species to crawl out of some of our wildest wilderness environments?  If there are very small remnant populations still out there, and excluding the chance that one pioneering specimen decides to commit suicide on one of our highways for all to discover, then chances are we may never find them if we are not looking.  Scientists, School teachers, Kung fu masters...whoever you are, cheers to you for getting out there and making the effort.

Well yes, I would say it is stretching all limits. Better people and larger groups have scoured Tasmania for years on end with absolutely no  indication of survival. If the Thylacine failed to survive in Tassie, why on earth would it be in a place where it went extinct centuries before? There were at least 7 types of Thylacine on the Mainland, why is the Tassie version the one depiction we keep seeing? I feel there is little doubt that todays "sightings" are modeled on Benjamin, and for some inane reason, people hoax sightings, heck, one clown put up a close up of a caterpillar and said it was a Thylacine. So people are going to be wary of fantastic claims. Like 200 sightings. If all we have to go on is the lesser qualities of people, then hope is gone. It is nice to think a pocket of Thylacines managed to hide out in Tassie, but to date, the majority evidence is against that.

Edited by psyche101, 16 May 2012 - 05:00 AM.

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#23    psyche101

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:02 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 16 May 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

I think the chance of the tazmanian tiger still running around is better then zero. I just looked over a bunch of youtube videos that supposedly show thylicines, but most appear to be dogs, or foxes, or edited hoaxes.

I hope it exists, the best case of continued survival is the recollection of David Fleay when he trapped one in the mid fifties, well past the extinction date. But it has been a long time between drinks.

Edited by psyche101, 16 May 2012 - 05:02 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#24    spartan71

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:12 AM

Hi guys I'm new here.

I've been hoping that the Tasmanian Tiger still exists for most of my 40 years. So when i see expeditions and 'evidence' like this I'm instantly interested.

When I was doing some private research and toying with the idea of a personal expedition in the future I came across these claims about mainlain sightings....my first inclination was 'what a croc', as I believe that it would have been impossible for the animal to survive unnoticed for all this time in mainland Australia.

I then started looking at some of the claims - and discovered two reasons that Tigers may be on mainland Australia - one plausible - one laughable.

1. Apparently - (the start of any good story) a number of mating pairs of tigers were reintroduced during the time around our immediately after WW1, with the view that they would help control the rabbit population.

2. The CSIRO has a secret program to breed tigers, based on specimans found in Tasmanian, brought to the mainland for breeding purposes. The animals that have been seen have some how escaped from this program.


Just putting it out there....I think the video is of a red fox btw as the scientist suggest.

Having been to Tasmania, in the some of the spots where the tiger had been sited - ones where a lot of tourists go e.g., lake st clair....you could have a tiger 5m off some of the uber popular walking tracks and never see them..


interestingly - every born and bread tasmainian I spoke to know someone who swears to have seen one.




#25    psyche101

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:32 AM

View Postspartan71, on 16 May 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

Hi guys I'm new here.

I've been hoping that the Tasmanian Tiger still exists for most of my 40 years. So when i see expeditions and 'evidence' like this I'm instantly interested.

When I was doing some private research and toying with the idea of a personal expedition in the future I came across these claims about mainlain sightings....my first inclination was 'what a croc', as I believe that it would have been impossible for the animal to survive unnoticed for all this time in mainland Australia.

I then started looking at some of the claims - and discovered two reasons that Tigers may be on mainland Australia - one plausible - one laughable.

1. Apparently - (the start of any good story) a number of mating pairs of tigers were reintroduced during the time around our immediately after WW1, with the view that they would help control the rabbit population.

2. The CSIRO has a secret program to breed tigers, based on specimans found in Tasmanian, brought to the mainland for breeding purposes. The animals that have been seen have some how escaped from this program.


Just putting it out there....I think the video is of a red fox btw as the scientist suggest.

Having been to Tasmania, in the some of the spots where the tiger had been sited - ones where a lot of tourists go e.g., lake st clair....you could have a tiger 5m off some of the uber popular walking tracks and never see them..


interestingly - every born and bread tasmainian I spoke to know someone who swears to have seen one.



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I do not know, there are quite a few stories of populations being dumped and left alone, one even in New Zealand from memory. The CSIRO ended up introducing myxamotosis to control the Rabbits, and as biological agents have been used in the past, I do not understand why a benign breeding program would remain covert to this day.

My sister lived in Tassie for some time, she worked at the fisheries and then the Comalco plant. She and her husband never claimed to have seen a Tiger, but they had seen Devils. I only know about a dozen people from Tassie, but I do not know one that says the Tiger is extant.

The government spent about 5 years with a large number of people looking for the Tiger in the 70's they came up empty handed. Not what anyone wanted to hear, even so, I guess one can hope every person to date has missed something. I completely believe that they existed into the fifties at least, but not much reliable news since then.

Edited by psyche101, 16 May 2012 - 06:35 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#26    spartan71

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:46 AM

Sorry for the spelling and typos...shouldnt be on these forums at work I suppose.
In terms of the the CSIRO rumour that was supposedly something that was a 'now' project not a past project.
The rabbit one was from 1919 apparently and arent meant to be related.
The reason I'm skeptical about the current CSIRO project is I know people are not very good at keeping secrets. There are some links out on the web about.
My stories talking to Tasmanians about the tiger come from my round Tasmanian camping expedition that I conducted in 2009. I was there for camping and a extended family holiday but had an opportunity to talk to a fair few locals.
None of them had personally sighted a tiger but the all seemed to know someone who had. These were the born and bred ;) tasmanians.
One day I'd like to go on expedition just for the fun of it and say I have done something a little different, not for any real expectation or hope of finding anything.
Tigers in New Zealand? Surely they would have taken the first plane back to Bondi?


#27    Panda124

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 11:58 AM

View PostNight Walker, on 14 May 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Murray McAllister has exclussive footage of a recent sighting of the Tasmanian Tiger (April 2009). This is 8 seconds from almost 9 minutes of footage:




Does that qualify as a thylacine sighting?
that video is so fuzzy it could be a talking waffle for all we know

Edited by Panda124, 16 May 2012 - 12:02 PM.


#28    spartan71

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 09:41 AM

I'm pretty sure it turned out to be assessed as a red fox.
The walking style was assessed by experts to be that of a fox, and I think they had some DNA analysed. whilst I'd love it to be a tiger, it could well be a waffle, albeit a walking waffle.


#29    Taun

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:38 AM

What about this one?... Any thoughts...




#30    Tarmac_Chris

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:49 AM

From the film, The Hunter (2011). Sorry.

"If we admit that human life can be ruled by reason, then all possibility of life is destroyed"




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