107 replies to this topic

[the L]

http://www.alternet....tter713446&t=16

[CRIPTIC CHAMELEON]

The scariest thing about that thread was the advert to loose 20 pounds, the before photo scared the hell out of me.  lol  

Edited by CRIPTIC CHAMELEON, 23 September 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Coffey]

Everything mentioned there is true.

Israel should be held accountable for it's crimes against humanity and the conflicts it causes in the Middle East. Zionism extremists are far for dangerous than Islamist extremists

[Professor T]

I watch alternitive non-main-stream news and the disparity between what we are told and the actual truth is sometimes astounding. not that all alternitive news is flawless.

Those 9 myths are peddled as truth, but they're not.
but those mentioned facts are true, and the main stream media chooses to ignore them.
One should ask, why...

I belive that Israel's security is only part of the reason why. The other part, must be money/oil/power.

Coffey, on 24 September 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Everything mentioned there is true.

Israel should be held accountable for it's crimes against humanity and the conflicts it causes in the Middle East. Zionism extremists are far for dangerous than Islamist extremists

IMO Zionist extremist beget Islamic extremists.
It's a terrible case of push-me-pull you or perhaps a better analogy would be a visious circle..

[and then]

Coffey, on 24 September 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Everything mentioned there is true.

Israel should be held accountable for it's crimes against humanity and the conflicts it causes in the Middle East. Zionism extremists are far for dangerous than Islamist extremists

Dude?  Decaf?  September 11... hello?  USS Cole, Several US embassies, what ARE you on about?

[Yamato]

and then, on 24 September 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

Dude?  Decaf?  September 11... hello?  USS Cole, Several US embassies, what ARE you on about?

And the motive of those attacks was retribution for Zionist foreign policy.   I don't know who the Zionist extremists even are, but I would identify them as the administrators of that dangerous and deadly policy.  Foreign affairs in this country has been a colossal embarrassment way beyond the confines of Zionism.   I can go off topic and write a chapter about it.   The monkey business our bureaucrats and their pencils and puppets put out isn't worth a dime of taxpayer money or a drop of patriot blood.   Our relationships in the Middle East are a toxic cloud over this nation.   There's no question that the West's security is endangered by its bizarre policies in the Middle East.   If Zionism didn't give us a European-sized guilt trip alibi to force our hands on the oil trade in the Middle East, we wouldn't give two squirts to the wind about our proxy militants in Israel.

[Coffey]

and then, on 24 September 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

Dude?  Decaf?  September 11... hello?  USS Cole, Several US embassies, what ARE you on about?

The civilian casualties of September 11th are no where near the numbers of dead civillians from bombing and war in the Middle East caused by Israel, the US and the UK/European forces.....

[and then]

Yamato, on 24 September 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

And the motive of those attacks was retribution for Zionist foreign policy.   I don't know who the Zionist extremists even are, but I would identify them as the administrators of that dangerous and deadly policy.  Foreign affairs in this country has been a colossal embarrassment way beyond the confines of Zionism.   I can go off topic and write a chapter about it.   The monkey business our bureaucrats and their pencils and puppets put out isn't worth a dime of taxpayer money or a drop of patriot blood.   Our relationships in the Middle East are a toxic cloud over this nation.   There's no question that the West's security is endangered by its bizarre policies in the Middle East.   If Zionism didn't give us a European-sized guilt trip alibi to force our hands on the oil trade in the Middle East, we wouldn't give two squirts to the wind about our proxy militants in Israel.

Yet we continue in those toxic clouds.  In fact our relationship with Israel may well spell the end of America as we know it.  But we seem powerless to change course even though many feel as you do.  You can probably write a chapter on that as well but the fact is that we are joined at the hip and the relationship will continue regardless the consequences.

[and then]

Coffey, on 24 September 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

The civilian casualties of September 11th are no where near the numbers of dead civillians from bombing and war in the Middle East caused by Israel, the US and the UK/European forces.....

Which casualties need never have happened had the crazy bas tids hadn't decided to kill people at their desks just trying to work for a living.  Cheer for your Muslim buds to someone who cares.  As far as I'm concerned they called down the lightning on themselves.

[Coffey]

and then, on 24 September 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Which casualties need never have happened had the crazy bas tids hadn't decided to kill people at their desks just trying to work for a living.  Cheer for your Muslim buds to someone who cares.  As far as I'm concerned they called down the lightning on themselves.

Muslims buds? As I've said millions of times, I'm not biased I favourer neither side in that regard. I don't liek extremists on either side. But the real reaosn we went into afghanistan was for the pipeline andpoppy fields.

The pipeline even ahs a wikipedia page and explains hw the taliban where attakcing the US embassy and the pipeline itself earlier in 2001 etc. Before 9/11, the US wanted to push them away fromt he pipeline. I've proven the peipeline exists and was a huge aprt of the US vs Taliban thing loads of times. Also the fact Taliban and Bin laden where trained by the US (CIA) also adds more implications to the whole thing. Now they are funding these same extremists in syria. lol Come on like the goverment of the US really cared about 9/11... I bet they let it happen if they didn't have a hand in it themselves. That really shows who the true enemy is and who really should be accounted for 9/11.

Edited by Coffey, 24 September 2012 - 01:21 PM.

[Yamato]

and then, on 24 September 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Yet we continue in those toxic clouds.  In fact our relationship with Israel may well spell the end of America as we know it.  But we seem powerless to change course even though many feel as you do.  You can probably write a chapter on that as well but the fact is that we are joined at the hip and the relationship will continue regardless the consequences.

And yet we continue.   I would love to meet these people who feel like I do (I've got the observant Jews on my side who take the Torah seriously) and get these people into our government.   As of now it's 30 standing ovations for Netanyahu rattling his sabre at Iran on stage.   Of course the Jews who protest Zionism want the end of Israel and I don't go that far.  I don't seek the end of Israel's existence for the simple reason that that's just repeating the same mistake over again and this time making it on the Israelis.  If I was eye for an eye, I'd have no problem with that.   But I'm not interested in forcing people off of their land, I'm interested in shutting that crap down anywhere it shows itself.

Incidentally I was for the action in Afghanistan 11 long years ago.  9/11 demanded a response though it soon became clear that it was our own terrorists that had far more to do with 9/11 than some guy in a cave half the world away who gave some speeches and helped finance some monkey bars to swing on.

[RavenHawk]

1) Civilian nuclear enrichment.
The 2007 NIE on Iran gives moderate confidence (see key judgments) that Iran has not restarted its program.  That basically means that we are not sure.  The 2011 NIE seems to raise that to high confidence that it has.  If it has then it wouldn't be using civilian facilities to do so.  

All this means is that the Israeli leadership are on the same page.  Their own misdirection.  If they say they believe that Iran had restarted its program, then the deaths of Iran's nuclear scientists could be pinned on Israel.  Now, I think everybody knows that Israel is behind the assignations but I don't think that has been anything that ties Israel directly to the assassinations.  So the game of intrigue continues.

2) Does not need nuclear power.
Actually, I think this is true.  I think Iran knows that its sweet crude will be running out, perhaps within the next 50 years.  It would only make sense to build power plants.  It's not the civilian research that I worry about.  I wish our country would be as smart.

3) Threaten Israel.
It doesn't really matter if one says to wipe Israel from the map or to remove the regime from the pages of time.  It is still a threat on Israel.  Zionism is just the Right of Israel to exist.  The original extent of Israel was from the Nile to the Euphrates at its height.  Israel today has never ventured out in conquest beyond its borders.  It has attacked when defending itself and other than a few exceptions, has returned all land it took in wars against Israel.  

Iran sided with Nazi Germany in WWII.  In '79 it attacked US sovereign soil.  In '82 it captured Basra (it could have ended the Iraq-Iran war by just expelling the invader).  And it supports Syria, and Hezbollah to attack Israel.  Imanutjob knows that if he rolls the tanks at Israel, their hulks will be left burning in Syria and Jordan.  But of course he has no first strike.  If he can find a way to turn the actions of Israel to be legitimately offensive, then he doesn't have to worry about first strike.

4) Fatwa against nuclear weapons.
This is a red herring.  Prior to 2003, Iran was perusing the bomb.  The NIE had high confidence that they stopped their program in 2003 in response of the US invasion of Iraq.  People tend to forget that.  This was a consequence of the Iraq-Iran war and both nations were pursuing nuclear capabilities.

5) Taqiya
It's called Taqiya and Shiites do it as second nature.  To claim the "The permission to lie about religion does not apply where there is a Shiite state able to protect Shiites." Is Taqiya in itself.  

6) IAEA, no evidence.
The IAEA is not allowed to inspect military sites.  You wouldn't be using a civilian site to enrich weapons grade uranium anyway. I don't think that places like Natanz are actual Israeli targets.  One thing Iran learned from Iraq was how to make IAEA inspectors effectively inept.

7) Arms race.
It wouldn't be much of an arms race.  No other nation is close to having nuclear technology.  The real arms race would have been between Iraq and Iran but we defused that one.  Israel just has not been as irresponsible with their nukes (or rhetoric) as Iran has with theirs.  Israel has not threatened anyone with them, although they have promised to use them in defense.  

The last time Jews allowed others to be in charge of their security, they were marched off to the ovens, so as long as the hatred for Israel and Jews exist, I don't see Israel ever disarming.  It's interesting that there have been no IAEA inspections of Israeli nuclear weapons but everyone just knows that they exist and yet despite the NIE, there is just no way that Iran has them (or is getting real close).

8) Reduced stockpile of civilian enriched uranium.
This is just another red herring.  Iran produces its own yellowcake.  They mine and mill it.  And Argentina isn't the only other source for augmenting their yellowcake, if they need it.  There was recently a shipment of Tantalum intercepted in Bolivia (originally believed to be uranium).  It has uses in electronics to hip implants.  It also has uses to increase the "dirtyness" of dirty bombs.  I'm not saying that Iran was the buyer, but that is just one example of what goes on "out there" and that things can be purchased covertly and they can be disguised as other things.

9) Iran's activities are source of instability.
Need I note that in 1970, Black September in Jordan took place and it was pretty much ignored.  Just as a reminder, Black September was Jordan's version of Ethnic Cleansing on the Palestinian.  In the Arab world, the Palestinian are unwanted trouble makers.  Their only use is cannon fodder to be used against Israel.  Even Imanutjob says he is for a one-state solution.  Both sides know that a two-state solution is not feasible.  The Palestinian was never really a race or culture.  Prior to 1922, you were not Palestinian, you were of this particular tribe or that tribe that lived there.  In an evolutionary sense, the short lived Palestinian is dying out.  They have no one but themselves to blame.

Anyway, to get back to the original premise of this item before Cole changed gears.  Going from Iran being a destabilizing influence to the plight of the Palestinian people shows the disingenuousness of the whole piece.  Many of the Arab nations have shown concern over an increasingly powerful Iran, especially Saudi Arabia.  Just because Arabs and Persians are Muslim, doesn't mean they are best buds.  The hopes of the return of the Mahdi is to bring them together but Arabs would see it as a means for a power grab by Iran.  And Arabs are not interested in having Persian masters.

[hetrodoxly]

Professor T, on 24 September 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

I watch alternitive non-main-stream news and the disparity between what we are told and the actual truth is sometimes astounding. not that all alternitive news is flawless.

Those 9 myths are peddled as truth, but they're not.
but those mentioned facts are true, and the main stream media chooses to ignore them.
One should ask, why...

I belive that Israel's security is only part of the reason why. The other part, must be money/oil/power.


IMO Zionist extremist beget Islamic extremists.
It's a terrible case of push-me-pull you or perhaps a better analogy would be a visious circle..

Mohammedans hatred of the Jew was born with Islam.

[Cradle of Fish]

Frankly the Christian/Muslim discourse sounds like a broken record. We are the religion of peace, you are the religion of war etcetera.

Take the same level of scrutiny to your own religion that you do to others for once. Also consider the fact that if you were born in the opposite part of the world you probably would be an adherrent and apologist for their religion.

[and then]

Cradle of Fish, on 25 September 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Frankly the Christian/Muslim discourse sounds like a broken record. We are the religion of peace, you are the religion of war etcetera.

Take the same level of scrutiny to your own religion that you do to others for once. Also consider the fact that if you were born in the opposite part of the world you probably would be an adherrent and apologist for their religion.

I do take such scrutiny, often.  I have even shared that I would be just as devout a Muslim as I am a Christian if I had been born in an Islamic country.  At least until I heard the gospel message.  The fact you are bored of the discussion doesn't make it go away.  One clue as to which argument might make more sense to a civilized person is that when you criticize Christianity there is deafening silence.  Try it with Islam - just avoid doing it in an Islamic country if you want to continue breathing.  Pretty stark difference there....