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NY's stop and frisk policy challenged


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#16    Wickian

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:53 AM

I've only been to New York once back in 2005, I walked the streets fine and wasn't harassed by anyone but the crazy people.  I never intend to go back though, I felt like I lost a few years of my life just from breathing the air in that city.


#17    Collateral Damage

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:12 AM

I find it hard to believe they'll stop and frisk any and every person that so happens to cross their path. I do believe they'll stop and frisk anyone they find suspicious, which isn't out of the ordinary for a cop of any jurisdiction to do. They tend to flaunt their "above the law" privileges at most times.
I'm not a citizen of NY, though. So I can't really say for sure.

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#18    preacherman76

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:15 AM

View PostCRYSiiSx2, on 20 March 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

I'd be out of my state in a heartbeat if they tried that **** here.

It isnt in the whole state, just in the city. There are parts of the city that have become a total police state. I live about an hour outside the city, and I stay as far away from that place as possible.

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#19    Ashotep

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:48 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 20 March 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

It isnt in the whole state, just in the city. There are parts of the city that have become a total police state. I live about an hour outside the city, and I stay as far away from that place as possible.
I can't blame you for that.  Sounds like the constitution got thrown out the window there.


#20    Ashotep

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:38 AM

Here's an update on this.  Two officers have testified, its not good.


Quote

Officer Adhyl Polanco began his testimony Tuesday by saying “there’s a difference between” the department’s policies on paper and “what goes on out there”, on the city’s streets.
Polanco testified that in 2009, officers in his Bronx precinct were expected to issue 20 summons and make one arrest per month. If they did not they would risk denied vacation, being separated from longtime partners, undesirable assignments and other consequences.
Polcano claimed it was not uncommon for patrol officers who were not making quotas to be forced to “drive the sergeant” or “drive the supervisor”, which meant driving around with a senior officer who would find individuals for the patrol officer to arrest or issue a summons to, at times for infractions the junior officer did not observe.

Officer testifies stop-and-frisk program motivated by quotas and race



#21    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:00 AM

View PostKowalski, on 19 March 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

They DON'T have to have a reason. Seriously.
It really is crazy, and I don't understand why it has taken so long for this law to be challenged. It's COMPLETELY against a person's constitutional rights!

It indeed is a violation of the Constitution. Their civil rights are violated when they are stopped and frisked because of their ages and ethnicities. It's one spoke on a wheel of statist actions. It reminds me of driving-while-Black road stops. I hope and pray that Americans avoid and ignore the non-stop conversation on race and look at the big picture. Americans of all races are living in a country that is losing freedom by the day. We need to come together as libertarians. When one person's rights are violated, all people's rights are violated.

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#22    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:12 AM

View Postaztek, on 19 March 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

i live in nyc, never been stopped and frisked. maybe cuz i don't look like crackhead\hoodlum\gangster. cuz that is who they stop,99 out of 100 times, ppl that they arrest daily, cops know their customers.
if you notice it is "civil right activists" like al shapron, and the likes who scream rasicm, they don't question the policy cuz it is ineffective, but hey, cops did conficate few guns during those stops. gunhaters should love that.

the fact is even without such policy cops could stop anyone that want to, they can always find reasonable couse. and judge will believe cops before anyone else. this is just another reason for al shapron and alikes to scream rasicm and claim another way of oppression by white man.

I'm not a fan of racial agitators like Jackson and Sharpton. I'm also not a fan of anti-majority propaganda, as well as antiquated programs like affirmative action. However, this stop-and-frisk policy smacks of prejudice based on age, as well as race. You could throw gender in there too. In essence, the police are *judging* young Black and Latin American males in a pre-determined manner. They have no cause to seize them. They have no cause to search them. They're unjustly considered to be potential criminals due to their physical characteristics.

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#23    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:22 AM

View PostHilander, on 19 March 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

I'm guessing you are white then because they haven't been harassing white people as much.

I don't know why they would assume the cop is the one telling the truth.  Look how many have been caught setting people up.

There are great law enforcement officers, some of whom are heroic examples to the rest of us. Sadly, too many other police coerce and frame people (of all races) more than people realize. Some cops look for any reason to harass ordinary people. It's hard to deny this when it happens to you.

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#24    MstrMsn

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:12 AM

View PostHilander, on 19 March 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

I'm guessing you are white then because they haven't been harassing white people as much.

I don't know why they would assume the cop is the one telling the truth.  Look how many have been caught setting people up.

When the number of blacks and hispanics is roughly half of the total population, with the other half being made up of multiple ethnicities (basically, there are more of them than any other group) it's not difficult to see that they would have a higher number of people being illegally stopped. And it doesn't have to have anything to do with racism, it's pure numbers.

Now, stopping anyone, for any reason other than actual probably cause is bs. But, to claim racism when it most likely isn't is just ignorant.

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#25    The Silver Thong

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:38 AM

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#26    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:21 AM

View PostMstrMsn, on 23 March 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

When the number of blacks and hispanics is roughly half of the total population, with the other half being made up of multiple ethnicities (basically, there are more of them than any other group) it's not difficult to see that they would have a higher number of people being illegally stopped. And it doesn't have to have anything to do with racism, it's pure numbers.

Now, stopping anyone, for any reason other than actual probably cause is bs. But, to claim racism when it most likely isn't is just ignorant.

They're stopped and frisked based on their demographics, not their actions, though. That's why we criticized this wrongheaded policy. Our views weren't based on criminals statistics. They were based on discriminatory actions that ostensibly addressed "pre-crime", which seemed quite Orwellian.

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#27    Timonthy

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:56 PM

As long as they're being professional and not harassing etc. I don't care about this at all. I believe that there's good reason for it and that it does less harm than good.

Having said that I obviously don't live in NY...

But 6 out of the last 7 times I've flown out of Tullamarine Airport I've been frisked and scanned for bomb residue. Maybe it's my shaved head. Maybe I have a certain evil look in my eye :w00t: But it doesn't bother me.

I assume they have a quota to fill as they 'randomly' single you out from the crowd, but I realize I probably look more likely to carry a weapon than most (Just check out how criminal I look in my display pic).

Yes there is a difference between a Melbourne airport and NY streets but the way I see it: If you're innocent then to you it's worth the small inconvenience for the times that they do get the criminals.

Edit: Also similar but unrelated: When I cut my hair in a certain ~military style (jarheadish/shaved back/sides and short on top), cabs will not pick me up. The other Saturday night, 5 stopped as I was walking 4km from a bar to a nightclub at around 10PM, but they all drove off after (presumably) seeing me looking more thuggish than usual. If only they new how much of a nice guy I really was...
But that's all good and it doesn't bother me because late night cab driving is probably one of the most dangerous jobs around here, so I don't mind if they don't pick me up if it means they'll also skip the next criminal looking person so that they avoid getting physically assaulted or harassed.

Edited by Timonthy, 25 March 2013 - 02:03 PM.

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#28    sam12six

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:29 PM

View PostTimonthy, on 25 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

As long as they're being professional and not harassing etc. I don't care about this at all. I believe that there's good reason for it and that it does less harm than good.

I don't know about the law of the land in Australia, but the US Constitution pretty specifically says they can't search citizens without prior evidence that a crime has been committed.

People with attitudes like yours (that's just an observation, not a slam) have enabled cops to stomp rights all over the country:

They don't have the right to search your car when they pull you over for a traffic violation, but if you say no, they'll say, "OK, I'll just have my drug sniffing dog walk around the vehicle a few times."

Setting up roadblocks to check the papers of EVERY person who drives through? That's as bad as stop and frisk and is begging for Godwin's law to be invoked.

People embracing the idea that if you're doing nothing illegal then you should be fine with random searches is probably a wet dream for would-be tyrants.

View PostTimonthy, on 25 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

But 6 out of the last 7 times I've flown out of Tullamarine Airport I've been frisked and scanned for bomb residue. Maybe it's my shaved head. Maybe I have a certain evil look in my eye :w00t: But it doesn't bother me.

Airports are a different case like going into a courtroom. By entering that specific place, you're offering to give up the right since those areas are very attractive locales for someone to carry weapons with the intent to use them. That's way different from someone being able to stop you, question you, search you on public streets just in case you've done something wrong.


#29    OverSword

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:47 PM

View Postaztek, on 19 March 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

i live in nyc, never been stopped and frisked. maybe cuz i don't look like crackhead\hoodlum\gangster. cuz that is who they stop,99 out of 100 times, ppl that they arrest daily, cops know their customers.
if you notice it is "civil right activists" like al shapron, and the likes who scream rasicm, they don't question the policy cuz it is ineffective, but hey, cops did conficate few guns during those stops. gunhaters should love that.

the fact is even without such policy cops could stop anyone that want to, they can always find reasonable couse. and judge will believe cops before anyone else. this is just another reason for al shapron and alikes to scream rasicm and claim another way of oppression by white man.
I wonder if they scream racism because no white people get stopped and searched.  This is America and it's pathetic that people got so scared after 9-11 that they begged to have thier rights taken away.  I'm not afraid of terrorists, I'm afraid of power monger politicians and unelected government officials  using the fear of the less intelligent Americans to erode my rights.


#30    aztek

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:32 AM

View PostOverSword, on 25 March 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

  This is America and it's pathetic that people got so scared after 9-11 that they begged to have thier rights taken away
what are you talking about, who begged?? i have not seen anyone begging in nyc, or anywhere, you think politicians ask ppl before they do? get real, they do what fits them, ppl have no say in it.
and i also lmao, when ppl say "they voted for them, they deserve it", no body voted for them, if you believe this election B.S. than you need to get even more real.
it is all show, an illusion, and it obviously works, for vast majority

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