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Other side of gun ownership


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#136    Stellar

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

Quote

Because when i said earlier that it's ok if proper measures are taken to teach a kid gun how to use a gun safely and responsibly he responds to me that I think kids should openly carry gun and to school and that i should probably think that they should drive too

Don't put words I my mouth. I've been saying for the past 3 pages that I have no problems with teaching a kid how to use a gun. What I said that if you feel that guns should be easily accessible to "responsible" children in order to protect themselves, then why stop there? Why not allow them to conceal carry guns aswell (in order to protect themselves).

So, my question stands. Why do you or do you not think we should allow kids to conceal carry pistols for protection, given that the parents believe their child is responsible and properly trained?

Quote

But then that 43 year old guy would have died at 10 and that 12 year old who shot the perp and saved him and his litte sister they would both be dead too. Is that what you'd prefer?      

And then maybe little Johnny, Clarice and Simon would have lived full lives instead of accidentally having shot themselves in the head because the parents thought their children would never play with their loaded guns. Which one would you prefer?

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

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#137    aztek

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:07 PM

View PostStellar, on 11 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Under supervision. That's the key word. I have no qualms with a child using a gun under proper supervision.



"only if something bad happens" doesn't bring back the life that may have been lost needlessly.


well life is full of surprices aint' it? the life may have been lost needlesly, or it may not, you never know. but you know, as a parent i think about safety of MY kids, and MY family FIRST.  don't care much for what if scenario.

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#138    F3SS

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostStellar, on 11 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Youre damn right I'm telling people they're irresponsible if their guns are easily accessible to their unsupervised children. b**** and moan all you want, Im not the only that thinks this nor is it a mental disorder to think so.

Its funny how you jump to claim that my point of view is a mental disorder. Maybe this is why I hear so many americans saying that too many americans are on medication --- because the moment someone has a different opinion, they have a "mental disorder". You claim you want to uphold your rights? Well what of a persons right to individuality? Why is it that the moment someone disagrees with you, they have a "problem", and problems need "fixing" to make them think like you?

It seems that among the wealthy western nations, most people share my point of view. Youre the minority, so please, spare me the "mental disorder" bs. Im glad I don't have to live in a world where I feel the need for everyone, child and adult alike, to have easy access to a gun in order to protect myself from the big bad guys who must be out to kill me.



You know what Nibs? I get a kick out of it when people claim that I want to ban all guns. I own a rifle and a hand gun. I don't keep it loaded and under my pillow, nor do I keep it on my night table. I keep it locked up in a firearms safe inaccessible to everyone but myself. I carry the only key to the safe on myself at all times as well. Ive shown my adult room mates how to use the guns, how to know if they're safe to handle, but I'm damn sure that they cant take my gun whenever Im not around to supervise. These are adults I live with, not 15 year old children either.
Well hey for the most part I agree with your easy access gripe. They shouldn't be and if they are the parents have a major responsibilty to understand what kind of kids they have. The case of that 10 year old who's now 43 and the 12 year old who saved himslef and his sister, those are model examples of good parenting.
Ha look how mad your are. You libs are also easy to rile up. Besides my little comment I don't think you have a problem and you don't need fixing. On the other hand you think everyone else who doesn't agree with you does have a problem that needs fixing. Another liberal trait. You want everyone to comply with you. I could care less if you comply to my views, just quit pushing yours on mine.
You know what made and makes America great? That we said to hell with the rest of the world so far as abiding by your standards and rules. Call us the minority all you want but America was and still is the greatest and the way people have flocked here throughout time is a testament to that. So stop telling us how to live. We didn't appreciate that in 1776 and we don't appreciate that now.
I don't live in this fearful worldview either. I don't even own a gun but I fully respect the right and ability of other people to have one if they want. So it turns out you do own one. What makes you the authority on who should and shouldn't have one? Criminals and psychopaths aside.

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#139    freetoroam

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:16 PM

Unless a child is being brought up in an environment where guns are a means to hunt for food and the child is taught at a young age to help out, I can not see why any child should be taught how to use a gun "under supervision"  or not!
Its great for the parents to pat themselves on the backs for being responsible, but we know full well the responsible adult does not have full control of the child when they reach a certain age.
Thankfully not all children will grow up to kill, but I believe the reason that the US have the highest gun deaths in the world is because many of them where at one stage given access to them at a young age by a trusting parent who thought they were being responsible.


ps: again, although i am anti gun, it is because I can be were I live, we do not need them here, but I fully understand the predicament many have been put in.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#140    F3SS

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:18 PM

View PostStellar, on 11 January 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Don't put words I my mouth. I've been saying for the past 3 pages that I have no problems with teaching a kid how to use a gun. What I said that if you feel that guns should be easily accessible to "responsible" children in order to protect themselves, then why stop there? Why not allow them to conceal carry guns aswell (in order to protect themselves).

So, my question stands. Why do you or do you not think we should allow kids to conceal carry pistols for protection, given that the parents believe their child is responsible and properly trained?



And then maybe little Johnny, Clarice and Simon would have lived full lives instead of accidentally having shot themselves in the head because the parents thought their children would never play with their loaded guns. Which one would you prefer?
That's absolutely what you said. Why stop there? Becuase it's freaking stupid, that's why. I'm talking about access within the privacy of ones home. Not a wild west free for all hope nothing bad happens with kids packing heat during recess. It is you who is implying I have no sense. You're making up stupid scenarios that nobody is suggesting.

Then there would be 3 dead kids whichever way you spin it. The perps would have killed the other three and J C & S would still be around. Sh!t happens in the world and sometimes it's terrible. No amount of laws, restrictions or gov oversight will ever change that.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 11 January 2013 - 07:19 PM.

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#141    HerNibs

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:24 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 11 January 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Unless a child is being brought up in an environment where guns are a means to hunt for food and the child is taught at a young age to help out, I can not see why any child should be taught how to use a gun "under supervision"  or not!
Its great for the parents to pat themselves on the backs for being responsible, but we know full well the responsible adult does not have full control of the child when they reach a certain age.
Thankfully not all children will grow up to kill, but I believe the reason that the US have the highest gun deaths in the world is because many of them where at one stage given access to them at a young age by a trusting parent who thought they were being responsible.


ps: again, although i am anti gun, it is because I can be were I live, we do not need them here, but I fully understand the predicament many have been put in.

Ok.  But I guarantee that unless some one was an adept safe cracker (or had dynamite) and can remove one of these -

Posted Image

and THEN unlock the clips and bullets, no one is using one of my weapons without permission.

We own several guns.  We hunt and skeet shoot and enjoy spending time together on a gun range.

So because we KNOW children are not responsible enough to be trusted with guns WE as the owners are responsible enough to keep guns away from the kids.

Too many very broad strokes are being used in this discussion.

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#142    F3SS

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

For the records folks, once more I don't own a gun. Second, I have no kids, yet. Third, I have no idea if I did own and had a kid that I would let them use them. There's a 9.9/10 chance I wouldn't. My arguement is to defend other peoples rights to raise their kids and practice their 2cd amendment rights if they so wish. It is not mine or yours or the feds choice to decide that for them.

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#143    green_dude777

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

Here's an example of an adult not knowing what he's doing with just a .38 handgun (not assault rifle) http://www2.tbo.com/...g-se-ar-603022/

He's 18, he's responsible, correct?  He has to be, as I'm learning that responsibility is age related.

For the record, my entire family, and friends that own and shoot guns, would never even point an unloaded gun barrel at someone.  We were taught to not even look down the barrel while cleaning the gun, because that's irresponsible.  Another side point, since I owned and fired a gun, I've had to be the one to clean it.


#144    HerNibs

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:32 PM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 11 January 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Here's an example of an adult not knowing what he's doing with just a .38 handgun (not assault rifle) http://www2.tbo.com/...g-se-ar-603022/

He's 18, he's responsible, correct?  He has to be, as I'm learning that responsibility is age related.

For the record, my entire family, and friends that own and shoot guns, would never even point an unloaded gun barrel at someone.  We were taught to not even look down the barrel while cleaning the gun, because that's irresponsible.  Another side point, since I owned and fired a gun, I've had to be the one to clean it.

Stupid is ageless.

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#145    green_dude777

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostHerNibs, on 11 January 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

Stupid is ageless.

Nibs

I completely agree, stupid is ageless.  With that said, initiating some number as an age of responsibility is, well, incorrect.


#146    freetoroam

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:40 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 11 January 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

For the records folks, once more I don't own a gun. Second, I have no kids, yet. Third, I have no idea if I did own and had a kid that I would let them use them. There's a 9.9/10 chance I wouldn't. My arguement is to defend other peoples rights to raise their kids and practice their 2cd amendment rights if they so wish. It is not mine or yours or the feds choice to decide that for them.
understand where you are coming from, but if an adult who kills was given access to guns as a child by a "responsible" parent, then surely it is OUR right to say they should never have had access in the first place.
Everyman has rights, but when there are potential innocent victims at the end of the barrel, then its a case of WHOS rights are more important.....saying that, we could easily go on all night in circles on this one.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#147    Stellar

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 11 January 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:


Well hey for the most part I agree with your easy access gripe. They shouldn't be and if they are the parents have a major responsibilty to understand what kind of kids they have. The case of that 10 year old who's now 43 and the 12 year old who saved himslef and his sister, those are model examples of good parenting.
Ha look how mad your are. You libs are also easy to rile up. Besides my little comment I don't think you have a problem and you don't need fixing. On the other hand you think everyone else who doesn't agree with you does have a problem that needs fixing. Another liberal trait. You want everyone to comply with you. I could care less if you comply to my views, just quit pushing yours on mine.
You know what made and makes America great? That we said to hell with the rest of the world so far as abiding by your standards and rules. Call us the minority all you want but America was and still is the greatest and the way people have flocked here throughout time is a testament to that. So stop telling us how to live. We didn't appreciate that in 1776 and we don't appreciate that now.
I don't live in this fearful worldview either. I don't even own a gun but I fully respect the right and ability of other people to have one if they want. So it turns out you do own one. What makes you the authority on who should and shouldn't have one? Criminals and psychopaths aside.

I'm notv the one who accuses others of having a mental disorder for not agreeing with me. Perhaps if you'd read my posts instead of throwing names and tantrums around, you'd understand what I want

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#148    Stellar

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:47 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 11 January 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

That's absolutely what you said. Why stop there? Becuase it's freaking stupid, that's why. I'm talking about access within the privacy of ones home. Not a wild west free for all hope nothing bad happens with kids packing heat during recess. It is you who is implying I have no sense. You're making up stupid scenarios that nobody is suggesting.

Then there would be 3 dead kids whichever way you spin it. The perps would have killed the other three and J C & S would still be around. Sh!t happens in the world and sometimes it's terrible. No amount of laws, restrictions or gov oversight will ever change that.

So its stupid to allow a kid to walk round with a gun on his hip, but its not stupid to allow that same kid to be able to grab that gun at home when theres no one around to supervise?

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#149    Stellar

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:50 PM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 11 January 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Here's an example of an adult not knowing what he's doing with just a .38 handgun (not assault rifle) http://www2.tbo.com/...g-se-ar-603022/

He's 18, he's responsible, correct?  He has to be, as I'm learning that responsibility is age related.

For the record, my entire family, and friends that own and shoot guns, would never even point an unloaded gun barrel at someone.  We were taught to not even look down the barrel while cleaning the gun, because that's irresponsible.  Another side point, since I owned and fired a gun, I've had to be the one to clean it.

Completely wrong. No one is saying responsibility is age related either. Some of us are saying that there needs to be a method in place that'll ensure that maniacs and people who don't know how to safely handle and store a weapon do not obtain one.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#150    freetoroam

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:52 PM

Mr_Fess and Stellar, is this like  a shoot out? I am sitting back and watching quietly:
Posted Image

Edited by freetoroam, 11 January 2013 - 07:54 PM.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.




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