11638 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 26 February 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

For the record:

The Swedish word for "queen" - "drottning" - is related to the Oldfrisian word "drochten".

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drottning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druhtinaz

Are you sure?

According to the next quote you are confusing 2 words:

C.H.Ph. Meijer (1919), Woorden en uitdrukkingen

Gedrocht, mnl. gedrochte, gedrocht, vroeger bedrieglijke verschijning, nu afzichtelijk wezen, wanschapen dier of mensch. ’t Is een afleiding met ge- en -te van het ww. driegen, nu bedriegen. Niet met dit woord te verwarren is een nu verouderd gedrocht, een afleiding van een germ, drocht, volk, waarvan het mnl. drochtijn, heer.

http://www.etymologi...fwoord/gedrocht

Gedrocht, middle Dutch. gedrochte, gedrocht, formerly a deceptive appearance, now a hideous misshapen animal or human. It's a derivation with ge- and te- of the verb driegen, now bedriegen (= to deceive). Not to be confused with the now outdated gedrocht, a derivation of a Germanic drocht = people, later middle Dutch drochtijn = Lord.

dro-ch-t-en 11, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Herr; ne. lord; Hw.: s. dre-ch-t (1), dru-sta;
vgl. got. *draúhtins, an. drottinn, ae. dryhten (1), anfrk. druhtÆn, as. drohtÆn,
druhtÆn*, ahd. truhtÆn; Q.: R, H, E; I.: Lbd. lat. dominus; E.: germ. *druhtÆna-,
*druhtÆnaz, st. M. (a), Gefolgsherr, Führer, Herr; s. idg. *dhereugh-, Adj., V., fest,
halten, Pokorny 254; vgl. idg. *dher- (2), *dherý-, V., halten, festhalten, stützen,
Pokorny 252;

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-D.pdf

According to this Meijer (1919) the old Dutch words for monstrosity and for lord just happen to be similar without them being derived from the same word.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 February 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 26 February 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

Let's be more specific, as the theological aspect of the dossier is actually interesting.

Jensma wrote his thesis for the theological faculty, and 3 'suspects' (not IMO) had studied theology: Haverschmidt, Verwijs and Halberstsma.

OLB was known in Germany as 'Himmler's Bible'.

People have suggested it was written to challenge the authority of the Bible, or to parody a 19th C. religious conflict.

So, what in your opinion are the most 'dangerous' fragments of the OLB?

The 'most dangerous fragments'?

The fragments that describe the Fryans as infinitely superior to the Lydians and Finda plus the other fragments that describe the Lydians and Finda as some sort of degenerate low-life.

But dangerous is of course relative: it will only be like that when people start using the OLB as some sort of new 'holy book'.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 26 February 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Are you sure?

Yes.
See:
http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...modern=drochten
and
http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...lemmodern=drost
("drochsate")

In OLB, DROCHTNE or DROCHTEN means (false) gods or idols, but it is also used for Wralda (once, I think).

Our "gedrocht" (creature) and "bedrog" (fraud) may be derived from it as well, but it would be etymological 'cousins' (not 'ancestors') of drost (Swedish: "drots") and drottning (queen).

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 26 February 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Yes.
See:
http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...modern=drochten
and
http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...lemmodern=drost
("drochsate")

In OLB, DROCHTNE or DROCHTEN means (false) gods or idols, but it is also used for Wralda (once, I think).

Our "gedrocht" (creature) and "bedrog" (fraud) may be derived from it as well, but it would be etymological 'cousins' (not 'ancestors') of drost (Swedish: "drots") and drottning (queen).

Well, this Meijer said we should not confuse these words, and that is what you are doing now it seems.

The word that means lord/queen is not related to the word that means monstrosity/deceite.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 25 February 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

With 'new-age Bible' I meant to say nothing more than a newly divinely inspired book based on some grand history of some other "chosen people", and this time the Fryans/Frisians.

These "Fryans" are nothing but an alternative to that other 'chosen people', the Jews.

There are - to me - too many hints in the OLB to ignore that idea. I already posted about "Gosa" almost quoting from the Bible.

The one (or those) who fabricated the OLB were out to look better than those.... fkg "GOLA" (="Jews". Just read Van Gorp's post, and you knew what sentiment is behind it all. And to Van Gorp I say: No man, I am not suggesting anything bad. Get that?).  They just reversed accepted history.

The term new-age bible is badly chosen. The OLB is absolutely not a Bible.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 26 February 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Well, this Meijer said we should not confuse these words, and that is what you are doing now it seems.

The word that means lord/queen is not related to the word that means monstrosity/deceite.

No, I (initially) said nothing about gedrocht/ bedrog (but it's possible that they're related; I don't take 'official' etymologists too seriously).

In Oldfrisian, 'Drochten', (also) meant lord or god, as you could have seen in the links I added.

Edited by Otharus, 26 February 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 26 February 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

The 'most dangerous fragments'?

The fragments that describe the Fryans as infinitely superior to the Lydians and Finda plus the other fragments that describe the Lydians and Finda as some sort of degenerate low-life.

But dangerous is of course relative: it will only be like that when people start using the OLB as some sort of new 'holy book'.

Yes, those parts are obvious war-propaganda and can easily be understood in the time they were written.

But, other than the Judeochristian Bible (that I have not read yet, I must admit), OLB never claims to be (or include) the 'word of god', they're not talking about a land 'promised by god', or people 'chosen by god', they don't see Wralda as their god (like christianity has the "god of Israel"), or anything like that.

Like I said, anyone using OLB as if it is holy, has not understood it.

The Fryans had a god-concept (or better: world-ghost), but were otherwise totally anti-religious. Note that the word "GOD" meant 'perfect' (volkomen, volmaakt).

I often wonder if you have ever read the OLB PROPERLY.

Your fear of it may have troubled your view.

Edited by Otharus, 26 February 2012 - 04:41 PM.

[Otharus]

Knul, on 26 February 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

The term new-age bible is badly chosen. The OLB is absolutely not a Bible.

I agree to that.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 26 February 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

I agree to that.

Whatever name you want to give it, it is about the history a some sort of 'chosen people' under the guidance of a Supreme God - Wralda - and a mythical super-heroin - Frya - who comes next to the Supreme God.

And it ends with the 'chosen people' being dispersed, killed or assimilated into other peoples, their religion bastardized or repressed or totally forgotten.

And a prophecy that in so and so many thousands of years Wralda will set things straight again and everybody will live in harmony.

No... nothing at all like a bible....

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 26 February 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Yes, those parts are obvious war-propaganda and can easily be understood in the time they were written.

But, other than the Judeochristian Bible (that I have not read yet, I must admit), OLB never claims to be (or include) the 'word of god', they're not talking about a land 'promised by god', or people 'chosen by god', they don't see Wralda as their god (like christianity has the "god of Israel"), or anything like that.

Like I said, anyone using OLB as if it is holy, has not understood it.

The Fryans had a god-concept (or better: world-ghost), but were otherwise totally anti-religious. Note that the word "GOD" meant 'perfect' (volkomen, volmaakt).

I often wonder if you have ever read the OLB PROPERLY.

Your fear of it may have troubled your view.

I can use the Bible as nothing but a story book or a history book and nothing will be the matter.  We can argue about the truth of the historical accounts in the OLB - like we are doing for years now - or we go the "Tony Steele" way". I know that you know now what I am hinting at.

And man, I am not 'afraid' of the OLB, that really is ridiculous, but put a couple of nuts together, and they will abuse the book for their purposes, like they did with the Bible. It happened with other similar books, it could as well happen with the OLB.

The book itself doesn't scare me at all, even if it will be proven to be real and authentic. It's - as always - what kind of inspiration people get out of it, and then how they act upon that inspiration.

=

You say "war propaganda", but that you can read in the Bible also.

And Wralda may not be the god specifically for the Fryans only, but they behaved like obedient puppies to what Wralda was supposed to have meant and ordained and by that assumed they were superior to those that opposed them.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 February 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 26 February 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

The term new-age bible is badly chosen. The OLB is absolutely not a Bible.

Then read the next again:

HERE IS THE WRITING WITH GOSA’S ADVICE

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bw

The only difference is that in the OLB the language got spoiled and bastardized by the people themselves, and in the Bible it was an act of God and his merry men.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 February 2012 - 06:05 PM.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 26 February 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Then read the next again:

HERE IS THE WRITING WITH GOSA’S ADVICE

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bw

The only difference is that in the OLB the language got spoiled and bastardized by the people themselves, and in the Bible it was an act of God and his merry men.


.

The whole point is, that the OLB is merely a projection of activities known to us into a time preceding known history and known christianity, but it keeps the characteristics of known history and known christianity. If you have a closer look at Wralda, you find all the characteristics of the Christian God, even from a Calvinistic perspective.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 26 February 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Whatever name you want to give it, it is about the history a some sort of 'chosen people' under the guidance of a Supreme God - Wralda - and a mythical super-heroin - Frya - who comes next to the Supreme God.

And it ends with the 'chosen people' being dispersed, killed or assimilated into other peoples, their religion bastardized or repressed or totally forgotten.

And a prophecy that in so and so many thousands of years Wralda will set things straight again and everybody will live in harmony.

No... nothing at all like a bible....

The OLB is not just about religion, in state affairs e.g. the OLB describes the change from matriarchy (Adela) to patriarchy (Friso), in economy the change from exchange of goods (wixla) to payment for goods (vrsella), in law from punishment to protection of the weakest, in weaponry from bronze to iron weapons, etc., in building from villages with longhouses to towns with harbours and storage facilities, in writing from filt to pompebledar, in script from community scripts to communication script, etc.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 26 February 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The whole point is, that the OLB is merely a projection of activities known to us into a time preceding known history and known christianity, but it keeps the characteristics of known history and known christianity. If you have a closer look at Wralda, you find all the characteristics of the Christian God, even from a Calvinistic perspective.

There you go.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 26 February 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

The OLB is not just about religion, in state affairs e.g. the OLB describes the change from matriarchy (Adela) to patriarchy (Friso), in economy the change from exchange of goods (wixla) to payment for goods (vrsella), in law from punishment to protection of the weakest, in weaponry from bronze to iron weapons, etc., in building from villages with longhouses to towns with harbours and storage facilities, in writing from filt to pompebledar, in script from community scripts to communication script, etc.

You can read much the same in the Bible. You can read about wars, you can read about other religions, you can read about cities being built and destroyed, and so on.