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Roswell: Two Crashes, Not One

roswell coverup

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#271    psyche101

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:01 AM

View Post747400, on 28 August 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Really, do i have to draw a diagram or something? What is so illogical, implausible or irrational about an unmanned Craft? That would account for its small size & lightweight construction. Obviously it would need to be designed to coep with re-entry, but I'm sure that alien materials (or some way of eliminating surface friction) wouldn't find that insuperable. Did the Contemporary accounts of materials found mention Bodies? That was a subsequent embroidery. I know you're a big fan of Lost Shamans Hypothesis, and a very imaginative one it is too, which is something I'm always pleased to see, but really, why should a small, unmanned craft really need to re-write the entire history of the Roswell Incident?

No, you do not have to draw a diagram, you asked a question and I answered it, simple as that. Is that not the appropriate response when asked a question?

I am a big fan of Lost Shamans Hypothesis because I cannot falsify it, and I did try. It fits in with every document from the time frame, and makes technical and mechanical sense. From the Twinning Memo to the GAO report, it fits in to every niche. Nothing else does so neatly. Nothing imaginative about it, and I must say, it's a bit rude of you to belittle the research Lost Shaman has done like that.

Look, I do not want to argue it with you, I really do not have the time for it, I was just pointing out that it does not fit in with the many recollections or documents from the time frame. It might be every bit as plausible as the ETH in many regards, but I think the Roswell tale is not the best place to "try out the new idea". There are many recollections from both sides, none accomodate robots. I was just pointing that out.

Edited by psyche101, 28 August 2012 - 09:04 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#272    Hawkin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:22 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 27 August 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

Common sense really, tradies cost 60-120 $ an hour. And that's just to look at the job. Labour and parts add up quick when appliances break. When something breaks I know I generally do not have a few hundred to throw around.

Budget is why.

Not the person that I know. He just spends it on other hobbies and neglects his estate.
You need to get out of the house  and get some fresh air and sunshine. The world
isn't the internet and a book.

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much of it can make you arrogant & egotistical.

#273    bmk1245

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:20 PM

View PostKludge808, on 26 August 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

I answered that.  Which is more important, flying a scout or commanding the ship that positions the scouts so they can do their thing?

The reason chain of command and rank structure are maintained is because they work and work quite well.  Everyone is in a position to provide the maximum benefit to the overall mission/ship/service/whatever.  This assumes manned scouts/probes.  I'm not completely convinced that is the case in 100% of the reported aliens/bodies situations.  From a practicality standpoint there's no reason to buy into the whole idea of manned probes/scouts for 99% of their operations since unmanned ones can achieve the same goals at far less per unit expense.
[...]
IMHO flying mothership  and scout crafts differ. The same as flying jet fighter and helicopter. Would top notch F-16 pilot outperform Mi-24P pilot, while driving Mi-24P, and otherwise? No.

View PostKludge808, on 26 August 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

[...]
Errr ... ummm ... that's true of all of the unknowns.
[...]
Thats the problem with unknowns: the are no sufficient data.

View PostKludge808, on 26 August 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

[...]
I did say it was a hypothetical case.  Speculation is not outside the limits to discussion here.  In fact, this whole area - ET & UFOs - is ripe for speculation since in a great number of cases, that's all there is left.[...]
Thats why I used SciFi; not every speculation is possible in nature (in our universe at least).


BTW, did you had a free time to look at data I posted in TT thread (posts #1366 and #1368)? If yes, do you see alienz involved there?

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#274    Quaentum

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 01:26 PM

View PostRyegrog, on 28 August 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Not the person that I know. He just spends it on other hobbies and neglects his estate.
You need to get out of the house  and get some fresh air and sunshine. The world
isn't the internet and a book.

Maybe you should check with other people and family you know.  Ask them how much is in their savings and if they had to fix up their place with out of pocket money would they be able to.

Check up on some of those places that don't seem to be kept up.  I'm willing to bet you'll find some owners are elderly people on fixed income who have barely enough to pay their bills and have nothing extra to get their place fixed up.  When you find someone like that what will you do?  Will you offer to help out fixing up their place at no cost to them or will you just move on and continue to wonder why their place isn't fixed up?

Now I wouldn't ask that question if I wasn't willing to answer it myself.  My wife and I try our best to keep our place nice looking but at times it starts to look a bit run down.  That is because when we find someone on a fixed income who doesn't have extra money to put into their property, we take the time to try to help them, doing repairs, clean up and painting and occasionally replacing an appliance, usually with a used one.  Though I have a decent job, we are not rich but we get by.  Going past our home you might wonder why we aren't doing a better job especially with a tarp over the garage roof (some leaks have developed).

No the world is not the internet and a book but neither is it applying the situation of one property to all similar properties as if the reasons for the lack of upkeep are identical for everyone.Getting fresh air and sunshine are important but opening your eyes while you're out there is a good thing too.

Edited by Quaentum, 28 August 2012 - 01:27 PM.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#275    Kludge808

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:07 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 27 August 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

Wow. I must say that was a poor comeback indeed. Best you could do?

We all have off days ... even me. ;)

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#276    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:19 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 28 August 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

No, you do not have to draw a diagram, you asked a question and I answered it, simple as that. Is that not the appropriate response when asked a question?

I am a big fan of Lost Shamans Hypothesis because I cannot falsify it, and I did try. It fits in with every document from the time frame, and makes technical and mechanical sense. From the Twinning Memo to the GAO report, it fits in to every niche. Nothing else does so neatly. Nothing imaginative about it, and I must say, it's a bit rude of you to belittle the research Lost Shaman has done like that.

Look, I do not want to argue it with you, I really do not have the time for it, I was just pointing out that it does not fit in with the many recollections or documents from the time frame. It might be every bit as plausible as the ETH in many regards, but I think the Roswell tale is not the best place to "try out the new idea". There are many recollections from both sides, none accomodate robots. I was just pointing that out.
Ah, by "Robots" are you thinking in terms of R2D2 and C3P0 trundling about, is that the issue? No, I don't mean that the craft was crewed by Robots or anything like that (although the idea of a probe releasing smaller drones once it's reached its destination is one that is interesting), I mean that the craft itself may have been a robotic probe, either remotely piloted or probably more likely automated; incorporating a degree of Artifical Intelligernce perhaps.

I wasn't belittling Lost Shamans Hypothesis, by the way; believe me, "imaginative" is a compliment. I'm always pleased to see people taking new and imaginative ways of looking at things.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#277    Kludge808

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:40 PM

View Post747400, on 28 August 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

I wasn't belittling Lost Shamans Hypothesis, by the way; believe me, "imaginative" is a compliment. I'm always pleased to see people taking new and imaginative ways of looking at things.

Okay, I tried to find it and I can't. Could someone fill me in on what LS's hypothesis is please?

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#278    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostKludge808, on 28 August 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Okay, I tried to find it and I can't. Could someone fill me in on what LS's hypothesis is please?
I'm sure someone would be able to tell you exactly, but from what I recall the gist of it is that the Roswell 'discovery' was set up by the USAF in order to throw a bit of meat to the media for them to chew on in order to keep them distracted so that the AF could get onw ith investigating the whole matter of UFOs in peace. Rather like Blue Book was to do later on, perhaps.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#279    PYak76

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:31 PM

My "Personal" take on Roswell Crash is; The 1st Official Release of "A Saucer Shaped craft crashed today in Roswell, New Mexico" type headline is probably the closest to the truth. As they didnt really have a system for covering up UFO crashes that was widely known as far as I can tell from investiagtions. To be perfectly honest I and no one else will ever truly know as our Govts are so obsessed with keeping anything approaching the truth from us, that in all my years I can't really tell.

Lets try and be scientific in a speculative way. If we take the facts; The Milky Way is a barred spiral galaxy 100,000–120,000 light-years in diameter containing 200–400 billion stars. It may contain at least as many planets, with an estimated 10 billion of those orbiting in the habitable zone of their parent stars.

But how many galaxies are there in the entire Universe? ... The most current estimates guess that there are 100 to 200 billion galaxies in the Known Observable Universe...as Im sure you'll all agree there are probable a lot of Habitable planets with intelligent life. By Intelligent I will keep that to Inter-Galactic civilizations, but I am quite sure a few of them have made this apparently impossible feat possible by now, so IMHO I am sure we do have visiting inter-galactic/inter-dimensional beings visiting or planet! As with conservative estimates we have 100 Billion Galaxies with 100 Billion Stars in each this makes a HUGE # of solar systems, surely thinking this way makes these possibilities (UFOs), a good possibility.


#280    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:10 PM

View PostPYak76, on 28 August 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

But how many galaxies are there in the entire Universe? ... The most current estimates guess that there are 100 to 200 billion galaxies in the Known Observable Universe...as Im sure you'll all agree there are probable a lot of Habitable planets with intelligent life. By Intelligent I will keep that to Inter-Galactic civilizations, but I am quite sure a few of them have made this apparently impossible feat possible by now, so IMHO I am sure we do have visiting inter-galactic/inter-dimensional beings visiting or planet! As with conservative estimates we have 100 Billion Galaxies with 100 Billion Stars in each this makes a HUGE # of solar systems, surely thinking this way makes these possibilities (UFOs), a good possibility.

I think in a universe this gigantic and this old, literally anything is possible.  There very well could be civilizations that are a million or a billion years ahead of ours, so to them finding this planet and visiting would be child's play.  For all I know, they wouldn't even need a spaceship to do it.  That's just our very limited thinking that they would need some kind of machine or device as we would understand it.  They might also be able to take any form or appearance they desire.

Just think about how far science has advanced on earth in a few hundred years, then try to picture what would be possible for civilizations even a few hundred or a few thousand years ahead of ours.  We can't--not really.


#281    badeskov

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:27 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 28 August 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

I think in a universe this gigantic and this old, literally anything is possible.  There very well could be civilizations that are a million or a billion years ahead of ours, so to them finding this planet and visiting would be child's play.  For all I know, they wouldn't even need a spaceship to do it.  That's just our very limited thinking that they would need some kind of machine or device as we would understand it.  They might also be able to take any form or appearance they desire.

Just think about how far science has advanced on earth in a few hundred years, then try to picture what would be possible for civilizations even a few hundred or a few thousand years ahead of ours.  We can't--not really.

Now picture that the speed of light is the ultimate barrier and that there are no means to get around that (i.e. wormholes etc.).

Cheers,
Badeskov

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#282    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:46 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 28 August 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Now picture that the speed of light is the ultimate barrier and that there are no means to get around that (i.e. wormholes etc.).


I have always doubted very much that would be the final word in science, although maybe it was in the 1950s.  LOL


#283    1963

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:38 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 28 August 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Now picture that the speed of light is the ultimate barrier and that there are no means to get around that (i.e. wormholes etc.).

Cheers,
Badeskov

Which illustrates the limits of your mind!...

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View PostTheMacGuffin, on 29 August 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

I have always doubted very much that would be the final word in science, although maybe it was in the 1950s.  LOL


And you will ultimately be proven correct my friend! :tu:

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

#284    badeskov

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:31 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 29 August 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

I have always doubted very much that would be the final word in science, although maybe it was in the 1950s.  LOL

We can always hope, but so far the speed of light limit rather stubbornly has prevailed. Maybe we can beat it, maybe we cannot. I certainly hope for the former, but wouldn't exclude the latter.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited by badeskov, 29 August 2012 - 03:33 AM.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#285    psyche101

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:31 AM

View PostRyegrog, on 28 August 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Not the person that I know. He just spends it on other hobbies and neglects his estate.

LOL, another stirling comeback.

Then he is the individual, and he sounds self centered. That would be his explanation.

View PostRyegrog, on 28 August 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

You need to get out of the house  and get some fresh air and sunshine. The world
isn't the internet and a book.

I am a tradie, and I grew up on a farm. I bet I have seen more sunshine already than you ever will. Not that there is anything wrong with the academic side of life, and I encourage anyone to pursue it to the best of their ability. I have lived in big cities and tiny country towns, I have worked from the equator to almost the Antarctic. And I have studied.

Maybe you should try reading a book in the sunshine? Not sure how telling you budget is why people let things deteriorate is associated with the Internet and study, perhaps you could enlighten us all? Your a skeptic hater aren't you?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.






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