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UFO sightings warn of alien invasion


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#76    BunnyGirl

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 06:19 PM

View PostFinguz, on 13 June 2011 - 10:19 AM, said:

Just a thought as far as Mr.Hawking is concerned. He's clearly a very intelligent guy, but he has been very wrong on numerous occasions  :yes:


How can someone be 'wrong' by suggesting a possibility? He never said that all ET civilizations would be hostile. He also never said that any of them definitely would be -- he only proposed that it was a possibility to consider:

"Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach."

Some of the problems with the arguments against Hawking by those in support of the friendly ETH is that many haven't bothered to read the statements properly (or have gotten their information from misleading sources or incorrect headlines, such as the one this thread references).

He was not speaking in absolutes.


#77    Finguz

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 06:36 PM

View PostBunnyGirl, on 13 June 2011 - 06:19 PM, said:

How can someone be 'wrong' by suggesting a possibility? He never said that all ET civilizations would be hostile. He also never said that any of them definitely would be -- he only proposed that it was a possibility to consider:

"Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach."

Some of the problems with the arguments against Hawking by those in support of the friendly ETH is that many haven't bothered to read the statements properly (or have gotten their information from misleading sources or incorrect headlines, such as the one this thread references).

He was not speaking in absolutes.


Sorry?

Did I say he was wrong in this instance? Or did I say he has been wrong in the past?

Also I do not support the friendly or unfriendly ETH, I don't even believe they have been here, 'robotic' probes maybe, but not the aliens themselves.

As far as this particular instance goes, I think Hawking is on the wrong track. Imho there is nothing here for the aliens that they can't find on any one of millions of uninhabited worlds without having to deal with us or possibly the great distances involved.

Of course we could be the objects of interest, in which case whoever they are ( if ever they are ), are coming and doing " whatever " no matter what we do.

One more point and I think it's a good one.

Have a look at this picture..

Posted Image


We really haven't announced our presence any further than the metaphorical bottom of the garden, so worrying about being invaded by marauding ET overlords is more than a little alarmist in my humble opinion  :yes:


#78    Deacon_Fall

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:52 AM

Hmmmm
I'd like to think that IF a race of beings had the technological ability to traverse space the way that we are talking about here. Then the same race would have ways, very very advanced ways (which our minds would not be able to comprehend at this point in time) to search for life on other planets.
I would like to think that a super advanced race wouldnt have to wait for our pissy little radio messages to drizzle through space to know that we are here.

In fact, i think if there IS a super advanced race, then they would have had a lot to do with our advancement genetically, spiritually and technologically.


#79    BunnyGirl

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 05:09 AM

View PostFinguz, on 13 June 2011 - 06:36 PM, said:

Sorry?

Did I say he was wrong in this instance? Or did I say he has been wrong in the past?


You said he'd been wrong in the past. In the context of the thread, however, it appeared that you were suggesting he was wrong regarding this and not just making a random statement.

That said, I am in agreement with you on most of your other points.


#80    psyche101

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 06:22 AM

We are all right and wrong, Finguz (don't get me wrong, quite like your posting), I took your comment around the wrong way like Bunny Girl, I do not have a problem with the good professor offering this up as a possibility, I do not think it is outside the realms of possibility. I think it is just speculation, and with the ETH, I think that can be forgiven? All he siad was it did not work out too well for the native Americans, I figured he was more simple along the same lines of if someone shows up that we may have something they want, which one has to admit is plausible be it from curiosity to a habitable planet. Might as well dramatise a tad when you have CGI at your disposal :D

And you are right, he has been wrong, noticeably the Preskill/Thorne bet where he was an honest man, admitted his shortcomings and provided Preskill with Total Baseball, The Ultimate Baseball Encyclopedia, and in an older bet he presented Thorne with a years subscription to Penthouse although Kips wife was not all that thrilled with the win. He might be wrong from time to time, we all are, but he is honest about it :D
And he is a Penthouse fan. Can't be all bad?

That picture sure does tell a thousand words.

Cheers.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#81    lost_shaman

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:15 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 14 June 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:

All he siad was it did not work out too well for the native Americans,


I have always felt this is an over used point that doesn't really apply to an 'Alien' invasion. The Idea here is that Europeans were extra ordinarily harsh towards Native Americans, (sometimes they were) but the truth is that roughly 90% of Native Americans died off from European diseases before ever even meeting a European.

Stray viruses will Kill, but this is not what people mean when this analogy is used. The implication is that Europeans had advanced technology and that is what lead to the demise of Native Americans. That is only in part true because 9 out of 10 Native Americans were Dead before even setting eyes on a European. Place that in context, no modern war ever started after 90% of a population was killed outright.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#82    psyche101

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:28 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 14 June 2011 - 07:15 AM, said:

I have always felt this is an over used point that doesn't really apply to an 'Alien' invasion. The Idea here is that Europeans were extra ordinarily harsh towards Native Americans, (sometimes they were) but the truth is that roughly 90% of Native Americans died off from European diseases before ever even meeting a European.

Stray viruses will Kill, but this is not what people mean when this analogy is used. The implication is that Europeans had advanced technology and that is what lead to the demise of Native Americans. That is only in part true because 9 out of 10 Native Americans were Dead before even setting eyes on a European. Place that in context, no modern war ever started after 90% of a population was killed outright.

Completely right, not the same ratio in Australia, but the same tale.

He has alluded to exactly this in the past -

Quote

Hawking, known not only for his sharp mind, but his also for his biting sense of humor, prefers option number three: "Primitive life is very common and intelligent life is fairly rare," he quickly added: "Some would say it has yet to occur on earth. "We should be careful if we ever happen upon extraterrestrial life, Hawking warns. Alien life may not have DNA like ours: "Watch out if you would meet an alien. You could be infected with a disease with which you have no resistance."

Link

In which case he would be right, it did not work out too well for the native Americans, I see what you are saying, but I do not think the ambiguity of his statement was accidental. This is just a more dramatic way of getting the point across, and Lord knows he has accomplished that.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#83    lost_shaman

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:02 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 14 June 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

In which case he would be right, it did not work out too well for the native Americans, I see what you are saying, but I do not think the ambiguity of his statement was accidental. This is just a more dramatic way of getting the point across, and Lord knows he has accomplished that.


Of course the flip-side was that Syphilis (a New World disease) ravaged Europe, it just happens that this was rather mild compared to the way Small Pox and other things killed off Native Americans.

Quote

Alien life may not have DNA like ours: "Watch out if you would meet an alien. You could be infected with a disease with which you have no resistance."

I'd point out that this is true also for the latest Influenza strains which Kill people ever year despite best Medical practices.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#84    psyche101

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:17 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 14 June 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:

Of course the flip-side was that Syphilis (a New World disease) ravaged Europe, it just happens that this was rather mild compared to the way Small Pox and other things killed off Native Americans.

Personally I think I would rather go via Syphillis, at least you have the hedonistic fun of getting infected.

View Postlost_shaman, on 14 June 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:

I'd point out that this is true also for the latest Influenza strains which Kill people ever year despite best Medical practices.


Indeed, I believe Swine Flu was the last epidemic I saw down under, positive I caught a dose, and it took quite a few out.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#85    DONTEATUS

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:17 PM

Is not the simple bacteria an Alien in our own world that could be our demise?

This is a Work in Progress!

#86    theQ54

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:11 AM

I really like how so called really brilliant people like hawking...seti people and such state that there's got to be life "out there" its amazing how these people are actually so dumb as to not understand that aliens are here...been here...have interacted with other humans and the proof is so overwhelming as to be without reproach...but these people live in some kind of socially protected fantasy world where they can't see beyond their telescope. And then you have hawking almost making a statement of fact that it would be dangerous to make contact...like he would have any idea at all other than just guessing....you people need to go to sleep and stay there. LUNATICS ALL.


#87    booNyzarC

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:19 AM

View PosttheQ54, on 23 June 2011 - 04:11 AM, said:

I really like how so called really brilliant people like hawking...seti people and such state that there's got to be life "out there" its amazing how these people are actually so dumb as to not understand that aliens are here...been here...have interacted with other humans and the proof is so overwhelming as to be without reproach...but these people live in some kind of socially protected fantasy world where they can't see beyond their telescope. And then you have hawking almost making a statement of fact that it would be dangerous to make contact...like he would have any idea at all other than just guessing....you people need to go to sleep and stay there. LUNATICS ALL.
There is absolutely no proof that aliens are here, have been here, or are coming here.  If I'm wrong, kindly show me this proof.  I'd love to see it.


#88    lost_shaman

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:27 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 23 June 2011 - 04:19 AM, said:

There is absolutely no proof that aliens are here, have been here, or are coming here.  If I'm wrong, kindly show me this proof.  I'd love to see it.

I won't be holding my breath, but I suspect another rant will be in order shortly (given as a response, if there is one).

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#89    Donnie Darko

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 08:32 AM

View PosttheQ54, on 23 June 2011 - 04:11 AM, said:

I really like how so called really brilliant people like hawking...seti people and such state that there's got to be life "out there" its amazing how these people are actually so dumb as to not understand that aliens are here...been here...have interacted with other humans and the proof is so overwhelming as to be without reproach...but these people live in some kind of socially protected fantasy world where they can't see beyond their telescope. And then you have hawking almost making a statement of fact that it would be dangerous to make contact...like he would have any idea at all other than just guessing....you people need to go to sleep and stay there. LUNATICS ALL.

My thoughts exactly. Except for the lunatics part. I understand their approach and reasons for thinking the way they do. Hell, I was a major skeptic myself. Nothing personal, just frustrating its taken as long as it has and counting.


#90    booNyzarC

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 01:30 PM

View PostH I M, on 23 June 2011 - 08:32 AM, said:

My thoughts exactly. Except for the lunatics part. I understand their approach and reasons for thinking the way they do. Hell, I was a major skeptic myself. Nothing personal, just frustrating its taken as long as it has and counting.
Then perhaps you would be able to share in more detail how "the proof is so overwhelming as to be without reproach" with the rest of us?  I've seen a lot of people take this stance and then scoff at anyone daring to ask to be shown this overwhelming proof which is beyond reproach.  Stephen Bassett is one of the most notorious in UFOlogy who does this.

Can you kindly share this proof so that we can finally settle this debate once and for all?





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