385 replies to this topic

[Arbitran]

Oniomancer, on 07 April 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Except that the Mokattam Limestone actually has a high electrical resistance, in part because of it's Magnesium content:

https://docs.google....3V2xFBy6jfSrtJQ

(page 142, section 9)


Never mind that limestone in general has a fairly high resistance to begin with. It's stone for crying out load.

https://docs.google....2RPD7C-9ADx-woQ

(page 9)

Regardless of the electrical resistivity of limestone, magnesium is a metal, and thus even trace amounts within stone will result in heightened conductivity. This is remedial physics. The Tura limestone of the casing bears however virtually no magnesium--it is closer to pure calcium carbonate. In any case, the fact that it is not all highly-conductive material merely serves to help store the electrical charge over time, until it eventually makes its way into the peak. By the time a decent electrical current had reached the gold capstone, it could have carried many millions of volts, based on the rate of conductivity, resistance, and the volume of the pyramid.

[Oniomancer]

Arbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Regardless of the electrical resistivity of limestone, magnesium is a metal, and thus even trace amounts within stone will result in heightened conductivity. This is remedial physics. The Tura limestone of the casing bears however virtually no magnesium--it is closer to pure calcium carbonate. In any case, the fact that it is not all highly-conductive material merely serves to help store the electrical charge over time, until it eventually makes its way into the peak. By the time a decent electrical current had reached the gold capstone, it could have carried many millions of volts, based on the rate of conductivity, resistance, and the volume of the pyramid.

You're forgetting that calcium is a metal too. And you're neglecting the fact that there has to be a pathway for conduction, which the non-conductive interstitial material would preclude. Notice the conductivity is relative to the porosity of the stone.

http://www.encyclope...qsngphyscs.html

The only way you'd get anything like a current flow is if the limestone was soaking wet and than certainly nothing like what you're describing from natural ion flow, and mokattam is one of the least likely for this due to it's density. There is some wicking of ground water from the base but even if you allow for the GP's thermal proporties, the majority of it's going to be relatively dry.

I notice too that this idea you've stated is being repeating almost verbatim from material on other fringe sites.

[Swede]

Arbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Regardless of the electrical resistivity of limestone, magnesium is a metal, and thus even trace amounts within stone will result in heightened conductivity. This is remedial physics. The Tura limestone of the casing bears however virtually no magnesium--it is closer to pure calcium carbonate. In any case, the fact that it is not all highly-conductive material merely serves to help store the electrical charge over time, until it eventually makes its way into the peak. By the time a decent electrical current had reached the gold capstone, it could have carried many millions of volts, based on the rate of conductivity, resistance, and the volume of the pyramid.

You may wish to further research your "remedial physics". Limestone is primarily composed of CaCO₃ (calcium carbonate). Magnesium has a lower conductivity than calcium:

http://environmental...electrical.html

Lithic materials such as limestone are hardly known for their capacity to store electrical charge.

.

[Arbitran]

Oniomancer, on 07 April 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

You're forgetting that calcium is a metal too. And you're neglecting the fact that there has to be a pathway for conduction, which the non-conductive interstitial material would preclude. Notice the conductivity is relative to the porosity of the stone.

http://www.encyclope...qsngphyscs.html

The only way you'd get anything like a current flow is if the limestone was soaking wet and than certainly nothing like what you're describing from natural ion flow, and mokattam is one of the least likely for this due to it's density. There is some wicking of ground water from the base but even if you allow for the GP's thermal proporties, the majority of it's going to be relatively dry.

I notice too that this idea you've stated is being repeating almost verbatim from material on other fringe sites.

Limestone is a porous stone, and yes, calcium is a metal; calcium carbonate is not.
Interesting that "fringe" sites have noticed these principals. I happened to learn physics from books, and in school; where did you learn it, on a website?
This theory actually isn't entirely mine either: my uncle first posited the thesis that the Great Pyramids were somehow electrical. I was intrigued, and asked my uncle's colleague at the college where he taught--a physics professor. He was fascinated, and stated quite plainly that the Great Pyramid is, based on simple physics, an excellent electrical system, similar to Wardenclyffe tower in function.
Are you a physicist? I'm curious.
Are you a geologist?
An electrician perhaps?
Geophysicist?

[Arbitran]

Swede, on 07 April 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

You may wish to further research your "remedial physics". Limestone is primarily composed of CaCO₃ (calcium carbonate). Magnesium has a lower conductivity than calcium:

http://environmental...electrical.html

Lithic materials such as limestone are hardly known for their capacity to store electrical charge.

.

Your failure to differentiate between chemical compounds and elements is remarkable.
Magnesium is far more conductive than calcium carbonate--the latter of which has no conductivity whatsoever.
Pure calcium carbonate in limestone has no conductivity or capacity to store ions for any period of time; the magnesium content in the inner stones as opposed to the finely-cut, nearly pure calcium carbonate casing stones, is the key factor. The magnesium is key.

[Swede]

Arbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Your failure to differentiate between chemical compounds and elements is remarkable.
Magnesium is far more conductive than calcium carbonate--the latter of which has no conductivity whatsoever.
Pure calcium carbonate in limestone has no conductivity or capacity to store ions for any period of time; the magnesium content in the inner stones as opposed to the finely-cut, nearly pure calcium carbonate casing stones, is the key factor. The magnesium is key.

The magnesium found in limestone is also generally in the form of a carbonate (MgCO₃). As you note, CaCO₃ has essentially no electrical storage capacity. The average percentage of MgCO₃ in limestone generally falls in the range of roughly 2.5 to 4.5 percent. These combined figures would hardly be consistent with the generation/storage of your "millions of volts".


Edit: More Chris Dunn blather?

Edited by Swede, 07 April 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[jules99]

Arbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Your failure to differentiate between chemical compounds and elements is remarkable.
Magnesium is far more conductive than calcium carbonate--the latter of which has no conductivity whatsoever.
Pure calcium carbonate in limestone has no conductivity or capacity to store ions for any period of time; the magnesium content in the inner stones as opposed to the finely-cut, nearly pure calcium carbonate casing stones, is the key factor. The magnesium is key.

Great Idea;
Have you made a working model or done any experiments with this sort of power generation? For myself, I would like to see something tangible, or a link to how this sort of system would function and generate electricity.

[Arbitran]

Swede, on 07 April 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

The magnesium found in limestone is also generally in the form of a carbonate (MgCO₃). As you note, CaCO₃ has essentially no electrical storage capacity. The average percentage of MgCO₃ in limestone generally falls in the range of roughly 2.5 to 4.5 percent. These combined figures would hardly be consistent with the generation/storage of your "millions of volts".


Edit: More Chris Dunn blather?

I said that millions of volts could be accumulated. Or at least I thought I did... If I forgot that part I apologize. That's pretty important.

[Oniomancer]

Arbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

Limestone is a porous stone, and yes, calcium is a metal; calcium carbonate is not.

Neither is magnesium carbonate, AKA magnesite, or calcium magnesium carbonate, AKA dolomite, the primary forms in which it occurs in limestone, such as the mokattam.

Quote

Interesting that "fringe" sites have noticed these principals.

Not merely noticed it old thing, but repeated it in places nearly word for word.

http://harunyahya.co...ramids_of_Egypt

http://rob-s.hubpage...yramids-of-Giza

Quote

I happened to learn physics from books, and in school; where did you learn it, on a website?
This theory actually isn't entirely mine either: my uncle first posited the thesis that the Great Pyramids were somehow electrical. I was intrigued, and asked my uncle's colleague at the college where he taught--a physics professor. He was fascinated, and stated quite plainly that the Great Pyramid is, based on simple physics, an excellent electrical system, similar to Wardenclyffe tower in function.
Are you a physicist? I'm curious.
Are you a geologist?
An electrician perhaps?
Geophysicist?

Appeal to accomplishment? Tsk.

What little I've learned came from the same sources. Are you questioning the validity of the papers cited? I for one question any source that doesn't know stone in itself acts as an insulator.

Edited by Oniomancer, 07 April 2012 - 10:51 PM.

[ShadowSot]

Arbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

The pyramids are built atop subterranean limestone aquifers, are they not?
Aquifers generate a current of natural, upward-flowing negative ions, which would thus be conducted through the magnesium-rich limestone of the pyramids. This would be largely contained within the pyramids too, as the limestone species used for the casing is significantly lower in magnesium, and thus would act as a sort of "insulator". As for the granite, as I have said, it is radioactive, and over time gives off radon gas--which serves to ionize the air and distribute additional ions to the surrounding stones. All this together, in the pyramidal shape, focuses all of the ions, the electrical charge, into the peak. As I'm sure we all know, the peak was originally capped with a golden capstone which has since been lost to time. Gold is the finest known conductor of electricity (apart from silver; however gold is favorable due to its remarkable resistance to corrosion), and would thus serve as a sort of "transmitter" of the huge quantities of ions being focusing into it. It is the same principal as was used by Nikola Tesla in his tower at Wardenclyffe--complete with the "air shafts", which are necessary to stabilize pressure in the ionized air and prevent premature discharge.
Of course, Tesla was an advocate of utilizing filament-less light bulbs which illuminated sheerly from the administration of wirelessly-transmitted AC electricity. Similar technology is described and depicted in the ancient cultures--and the Great Pyramids can be seen as a prime example of how such a technology might have functioned.

Is that plain enough for you?

A quicker way to say all of that would have been "magic."

For that matter, I notice you seem to be quick to retroactively change what you've said so that you aren't wrong.
No, no, of course you meant something entirely different. Right.

[Arbitran]

Oniomancer, on 07 April 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

Neither is magnesium carbonate, AKA magnesite, or calcium magnesium carbonate, AKA dolomite, the primary forms in which it occurs in limestone, such as the mokattam.


Not merely noticed it old thing, but repeated it nearly word for word.

http://harunyahya.co...ramids_of_Egypt

http://rob-s.hubpage...yramids-of-Giza



Appeal to accomplishment? Tsk.

What little I've learned came from the same sources. Are you questioning the validity of the papers cited? I for one question any source that doesn't know stone in itself acts as an insulator.

Of course I know that stone can insulate. Have you really ignored the importance of the magnesium compounds? I have finally learned how to link, I think: http://prb.aps.org/a...53/i24/p16247_1
I read the pages you linked, and I must say, they are remarkably similar to mine and my uncle's thesis. I can assure you however that prior to your links, I had never seen them before. I was honestly surprised to see that essentially our theory had been reproduced.
The appeal to accomplishment was merely to determine your authority in discussing this subject. As I have said, I have relatively little expertise in the fields of physics and chemistry; but the same cannot be said of my uncle's colleague, can it?
I do not question the validity of your cited pages: only the interpretations of them you've tried to give. Of course there are varying degrees of conductivity in magnesium and calcium: but chemical compounds cannot be compared with base elements.
And in case it takes any more explaining: yes, dolomite and magnesite are electrically conductive:
http://meetingorgani...GU2012-7517.pdf
http://www.americane...s.com/lsgm.html

[Arbitran]

ShadowSot, on 07 April 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

A quicker way to say all of that would have been "magic."

For that matter, I notice you seem to be quick to retroactively change what you've said so that you aren't wrong.
No, no, of course you meant something entirely different. Right.

Am I "retroactively" changing my story? No.
Are you people trying so hard to discredit me that you intentionally misrepresent what I've said? Possibly.
Are you people genuinely misunderstanding what I've said? Probably.

[Swede]

Arbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I said that millions of volts could be accumulated. Or at least I thought I did... If I forgot that part I apologize. That's pretty important.

No, it would not appear that you have utilized that term. To date you have utilized terms such as "electrical production" (post #109) and "store" (post #121). Without generation/storage, how can an electrical charge be "accumulated"?

.

[Arbitran]

jules99, on 07 April 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Great Idea;
Have you made a working model or done any experiments with this sort of power generation? For myself, I would like to see something tangible, or a link to how this sort of system would function and generate electricity.

The work of Nikola Tesla at Wardenclyffe can be seen as an experimental reproduction of these principles. Of course, Wardenclyffe never got off the ground due to the financial loss from J.P. Morgan. However, the pyramids would likely not have had such restrictions (after all, they were completed).

[Swede]

Arbitran, on 07 April 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Of course I know that stone can insulate. Have you really ignored the importance of the magnesium compounds? I have finally learned how to link, I think: http://prb.aps.org/a...53/i24/p16247_1
I read the pages you linked, and I must say, they are remarkably similar to mine and my uncle's thesis. I can assure you however that prior to your links, I had never seen them before. I was honestly surprised to see that essentially our theory had been reproduced.
The appeal to accomplishment was merely to determine your authority in discussing this subject. As I have said, I have relatively little expertise in the fields of physics and chemistry; but the same cannot be said of my uncle's colleague, can it?
I do not question the validity of your cited pages: only the interpretations of them you've tried to give. Of course there are varying degrees of conductivity in magnesium and calcium: but chemical compounds cannot be compared with base elements.
And in case it takes any more explaining: yes, dolomite and magnesite are electrically conductive:
http://meetingorgani...GU2012-7517.pdf
http://www.americane...s.com/lsgm.html

You may wish to actually read the content of the abstracts which you have presented. They hardly support your contentions. Note pressure, temperature, etc. Also, these are merely abstracts and do not present the final data in regards to conductivity.

.