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Athiesm as an escape from reality?


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#31    White Crane Feather

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:26 PM

View PostHasina, on 02 October 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

I find agnostics to be wishy washy, that's okay to say, since people generalize atheists as self-centered and theists to be irrational, right?
Agnosticism is the only resonable position for most people. It's not at all "wishy washy". Faith without reason and faith in flawed methodologies is just blind.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#32    Emma_Acid

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:46 PM

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I am an agnostic, and am often amazed at how atheist will accuse xians as well as theist in general of believing in an afterlife because of some kind of self centeredness.  Is this true?

Well, I think its pretty obvious that the idea of the afterlife comes from an understandable fear of mortality.



View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I think that atheism can be just as self centered......since each atheist is his or her own god

Atheists don't believe in gods. Bad choice of words, but I know what you mean.


View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I often think that no afterlife is a blessing=== since I am not sure I want to face myself at death, or god, or some kind of reward or punishment.

There are pros and cons of both I'm sure. I'm also sure it can be argued that a fervent belief in the afterlife tallies directly with religious fundamentalism, especially of the murderous kind. Such are the actions of those who believe the next life to be more important than this one.


View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I think both atheism and theism are irrational, since neither can be proven.

Atheism is rational because there is no proof for any god, so the default mindset should be not to believe in one. To believe in something counter to the evidence is highly irrational.

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#33    Hasina

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:49 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 02 October 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:


Agnosticism is the only resonable position for most people. It's not at all "wishy washy". Faith without reason and faith in flawed methodologies is just blind.
Indecision is still a decision. Just shrugging and saying 'well, there might be a god or there might not be, I'll just sit and wait' is not reasonable at all. Agnostics are only viewed as 'reasonable' because they can sway from side to side and prop up either end of the argument without having to take a real position. I prefer conviction to this 'welp we just don't know' rhetoric.
You yourself make a stance now by saying both are flawed but never think that this agnostic view point just makes you cross eyed. Being 'undecided' isn't a stance, it's a defense against making a desicion, which everyone has to make at some time or the other, even to ourselves. Humans are a 'this' or 'that' kind of species. It's what got us to the moon and kept us from being eaten by lions on the savannah. If my views are flawed, I'll change them, but not until proven otherwise.

Edited by Hasina, 02 October 2012 - 05:52 PM.

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#34    Bling

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:05 PM

I am not my own god, gods don't exist - that's the whole point to atheism isn't it? Believing in stories in the bible and god is the ultimate escape from reality, and usually a crutch people use to get through life and make sense of things they don't understand. I love the fact that I live in the real world now :)


#35    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:31 PM

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

Please that old saw.  The gods are not God, God for theist is not a human writ large.  Also to be an atheist does affect you live, all of our beliefs do.

doug

I can quite clearly tell you that being a an atheist, it does not affect my life. It does not dictate what I do, where I go, with whom I associate, nor the decisions that I make  The only place it ever even comes up is on these boards.
It is a none issue in my life. It affects nothing. Being my life, I am pretty confident of that answer.
It is, by definition, a disbelief. Does your disbelief in unicorns, fairies or goblins affect your life to any degree?

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#36    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:32 PM

View PostAtlantia, on 02 October 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

I'ts like 'not smoking' you still have a tiny worry that other peoples bad habits might do you harm, but it's not a big concern. You mostly just feel sorry for those directly affected as you watch the harm it does them.

Right. I never see why some try so hard to redefine the word. It's like they're looking for some sort of religious victory over somebody who doesn't even care about religion.

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#37    Tiggs

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:05 PM

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I am an agnostic, and am often amazed at how atheist will accuse xians as well as theist in general of believing in an afterlife because of some kind of self centeredness.  Is this true?

Ask Pascal.


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I think that atheism can be just as self centered......since each atheist is his or her own god, there is no higher authority, well unless it is some form of secular goverment.

Do you think that you're a God?


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#38    Hasina

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:14 PM

I like Pierce's quote from the show Community: 'Agnostic, the lazy man's atheist.'

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#39    Dr. D

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:44 PM

View PostHasina, on 02 October 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

I find agnostics to be wishy washy, that's okay to say, since people generalize atheists as self-centered and theists to be irrational, right?

You might be right . . . . maybe . . . . I don't know . . . . could be . . . .


#40    Blueogre2

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:47 PM

There was a time when I could not stand Agonosticism but now, I feel like it's a valid view point. After all, the universe is so vast and grand and we know so little why not sit on the fence nothing cowardly about it, it's just prudence really.


#41    dougeaton

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

View PostHerNibs, on 02 October 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Ok, please point out where I am wrong in what I say rather than be condescending and resorting to name calling.

You are adding a "tone" to my post that isn't there.

Nibs

The below, what you said was just you telling me and those who believe how superior you are and strong and yes how you face reality while believers don't....in other words you believe that theist are crazy or worse.  I am not a believer but I do have a an understanding of faith that you seem to be missing.....I would suggest that you tear down your straw man and start to look at things a bit more objectively.  You atheist are just as much a problem as fundie believers.  Even you last sentence is condescending.  I don't expect you to see it, atheist after all have no soul to look into.



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I don't get a mystical second chance for forgiveness by asking.  I have to earn that myself from whomever I wronged.  
I don't get a mystical get out of jail card for doing something wrong by asking.  I'm punished right here for that.
There is no mystical magical haven for me for living a good life and doing good things.  I do good things because I want the world to be better and the only reward I get is from myself.
I have no enemies nor do I fear or hate anyone or feel sorry for them because they don't share my ideas.



Edited by dougeaton, 02 October 2012 - 11:11 PM.

If you must have  finale absolute answers, then become an  hard nosed atheist or a fundie of any religion, both seem to be black and white thinkers, and have only contempt for those who think differently.

#42    dougeaton

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:11 PM

View PostTiggs, on 02 October 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Ask Pascal.




Do you think that you're a God?

I think I have to come to my own conclusions, so yes with a small g.

doug

If you must have  finale absolute answers, then become an  hard nosed atheist or a fundie of any religion, both seem to be black and white thinkers, and have only contempt for those who think differently.

#43    dougeaton

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:13 PM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 02 October 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

I can quite clearly tell you that being a an atheist, it does not affect my life. It does not dictate what I do, where I go, with whom I associate, nor the decisions that I make  The only place it ever even comes up is on these boards.
It is a none issue in my life. It affects nothing. Being my life, I am pretty confident of that answer.
It is, by definition, a disbelief. Does your disbelief in unicorns, fairies or goblins affect your life to any degree?

You may be an exception, there are not many of you who carry that label.

View PostBling, on 02 October 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

I am not my own god, gods don't exist - that's the whole point to atheism isn't it? Believing in stories in the bible and god is the ultimate escape from reality, and usually a crutch people use to get through life and make sense of things they don't understand. I love the fact that I live in the real world now :)

Real world?  How do you know that is true, that is a faith statement.

If you must have  finale absolute answers, then become an  hard nosed atheist or a fundie of any religion, both seem to be black and white thinkers, and have only contempt for those who think differently.

#44    dougeaton

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:14 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 02 October 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Well, I think its pretty obvious that the idea of the afterlife comes from an understandable fear of mortality.





Atheists don't believe in gods. Bad choice of words, but I know what you mean.




There are pros and cons of both I'm sure. I'm also sure it can be argued that a fervent belief in the afterlife tallies directly with religious fundamentalism, especially of the murderous kind. Such are the actions of those who believe the next life to be more important than this one.




Atheism is rational because there is no proof for any god, so the default mindset should be not to believe in one. To believe in something counter to the evidence is highly irrational.

Actually for believers there is proof and a lot of books out there that make a good case of it.  Proof, no, but it shows that there are good rational reason for believing in a deity.

If you must have  finale absolute answers, then become an  hard nosed atheist or a fundie of any religion, both seem to be black and white thinkers, and have only contempt for those who think differently.

#45    Tiggs

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:15 PM

View Postdougeaton, on 02 October 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

I think I have to come to my own conclusions, so yes with a small g.

doug

Not believing in a higher power doesn't make you a God, regardless of how you'd like to capitalize it.


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