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Pascagoula case


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#31    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 11:57 PM

And I'm not a great believer in polygraph tests one way or the other, since they still cannot be used in most courts, although the police use them as an investigative tool rather than an actual "lie detector".  They want to see how people react to the request that they be polygraphed, so basically it's a psychological thing, to see if the person is acting in a deceptive way.  They didn't believe Hickson and Parker were lying.

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#32    psyche101

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 04:01 AM

View Postquillius, on 27 October 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

Hi SL,

the rest of that quote is here:



if you go back a page on this thread to post #13, there is some more info plus a link.

:tu:


HI Quillius

Can we double check this passage?

Quote

Subsequent investigation by Joe Eszterhas of Rolling Stone uncovered some additional information. The UFO landing site was in full view of two twenty-four hour toll booths, and neither operator saw anything. Also, the site was in range of security cameras from nearby Ingalls Shipyard, and the cameras showed nothing that night. But serious doubts can be cast on this late investigation: for example, it is also claimed that motorists from the nearby highway should have seen the blue light in the night and did not. This is plainly wrong, and Sherrif Diamond did respond to that, his office actually received three unnamed reports of motorists who did see the blue light where the two men were abducted, a few hundred yards from the highway.

Am I missing something here? What do motorists have to do with cameras? People watch the road, people look around, yes a person might have missed such a sighting, but a camera within range is constant surveillance. If it saw nothing, mate, nothing happened. I do not understand how the above pertains to CCTV, it does make sense, but it does with regards to other eyewitnesses though, I think it is entirely possible that this passage was deliberately written with just the right amount of ambiguity to make it appear more mysterious than it is.
Another major red flag I see is the continued contact. Were these men tested fro drugs? Several possibilities abound from a little fun through to a real time abduction but by nefarious people. I am really speculating wildly here, but maybe they saw something like NERVA and were drugged during the experience, such does not seem altogether beyond the realm of the craziness of the CIA. It might seem strange, but where abduction cases are concerned we see some more than strange surrounding circumstances pop up.

And yet again, money rears its ugly head:

Joe Eszterhas also exhumed a less than glorious episode in the career of Charles Hickson: he has been seemingly fired from his foreman position at Ingalls Shipyards, when colleagues revealed that on several occasions, when unable to give borrowed money back he offered promotions instead.

LINK

The 19 page evaluation by Phillip Klass is difficult to locate. I wonder if it is damaging.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#33    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 04:25 AM

This is a map of Pascagoula, so I'm curious about whether the cameras from the shipyard or the highway really could have filmed the UFO.  That depends on which highway they're talking about.

Posted Image



This Coast Guard station was also nearby and it did spot the UFO on radar, and also reported interference.  This picture also shows the highway and the shipyard, although I'm not sure where the cameras were located in relation to the UFO.


Posted Image


Their sighting was on the west bank of the river, on a pier near an old industrial site.

"The Pascagoula alien abduction, also known as the Hickson/Parker alien abduction, allegedly occurred on the evening of October 11, 1973, when 42 year-old Charles Hickson and 19 year-old Calvin Parker, co-workers at Walker Shipyards, decided to go fishing at an abandoned industrial site, behind the old Schaupeter Shipyard building, on the west bank of the Pascagoula River."


http://www.factficti...pascagoula.html

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 01 November 2011 - 04:32 AM.

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#34    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 04:37 AM

This is the site as it looks today:

Posted Image



They were questioned at Keesler Air Force Base as well, despite denials by the Air Force that it no longer investigates UFOs.  I think we know that's not really true.


Posted Image

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#35    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 04:53 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 01 November 2011 - 04:01 AM, said:

HI Quillius
Am I missing something here? What do motorists have to do with cameras? People watch the road, people look around, yes a person might have missed such a sighting, but a camera within range is constant surveillance. If it saw nothing, mate, nothing happened. I do not understand how the above pertains to CCTV, it does make sense, but it does with regards to other eyewitnesses though, I think it is entirely possible that this passage was deliberately written with just the right amount of ambiguity to make it appear more mysterious than it is.



I think the tollbooths they are referring to must have been for the old draw bridge over the Pascagoula River, which has since been torn down and replaced with a new one.

http://www.pascagoul...se/highrise.htm


This is a very small picture of the site as it looked in 1973.


Posted Image

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#36    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:08 AM

Joe Eszterhas, who later became a Hollywood screenwriter for such films like Basic Instinct, admitted that he used to laugh at UFO reports until he saw one in 1997.


http://books.google....epage&q&f=false


It seems he also got religion, too, at least as he got older.

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 01 November 2011 - 05:09 AM.

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#37    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:19 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 01 November 2011 - 04:01 AM, said:


Joe Eszterhas also exhumed a less than glorious episode in the career of Charles Hickson: he has been seemingly fired from his foreman position at Ingalls Shipyards, when colleagues revealed that on several occasions, when unable to give borrowed money back he offered promotions instead.


Your link also mentions that:


"Hickson and Parker went to work the next day. While at work they got a phone call from the Sheriff's Office, telling them to come down to the station because the place was crawling with reporters. Hickson asked the sheriff about his promise not to leak the story. The sheriff replied he didn't leak the story but someone in his dept. must have. While on the phone with the sheriff, Hickson's foreman, Johnny Walker, overheard the phone conversation and told Hickson to get a lawyer because he may get some money for his story. Walker took the liberty of contacting the company lawyer who also was his brother in law an attorney by the name of Joe Colingo. Colingo arrived to accompany his new clients to the sheriffs office. Sheriff Diamond told Colingo that his department did not have a polygraph machine. Meanwhile Hickson was concerned that himself and Parker might have gotten radiation poisoning from the object. They were taken by Colingo and Detective Tom Huntley to the hospital, where they were informed that the hospital did not have the equipment to test for radiation exposure.

Detective Huntley then contacted Keesler, and the group headed off to the Air Base where a group of doctors under security conditions examined Hickson and Parker. Their medical report indicates that both men were in a severe state of mental stress, due to a traumatic experience, and that the men's report is probably correct, and that no radiation exposure was found. Then the two were interrogated by the entire Base Command about the encounter. Later on that same afternoon Hickson, Parker, and Parkers father met Colingo in his office and drew up a contract. Debunkers later claimed this fact is proof that the story was a hoax, but to the contrary Hickson soon after fired Colingo for the reason the lawyer was only in on this to win some money, and they both did not approved.

In 1976, three years later, Dr. Bast of the Harvard Hospital of Detroit conducted further psychological tests with both men. He concluded that neither of them suffers from any psychotic behaviour, hysteria or brain damage. He could not find any evidence of a twin-madness syndrome, a behaviour in which a subject of madness can exert some contamination on another person."

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 01 November 2011 - 05:20 AM.

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#38    psyche101

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:38 AM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 01 November 2011 - 04:53 AM, said:

I think the tollbooths they are referring to must have been for the old draw bridge over the Pascagoula River, which has since been torn down and replaced with a new one.

http://www.pascagoul...se/highrise.htm


This is a very small picture of the site as it looked in 1973.


Posted Image


Hi McGuffin

Thank you for the informative links, they paint an excellent picture of the terrain. I am only going with the description (as posted from Wikipedia) that says the cameras were in range of the sighting, I was thinking along the lines that even if they were not, surely we should still something like the Nellis footage? Where Quillius posted the rest of the passage, I could understand the eyewitness argument, perhaps even the tollbooth missing the event, for all we know there might have been two teenagers snogging in one of them at the time of the sighting, but cameras are always on the alert, I find the description ousting cameras as somewhat puzzling.

Cheers.

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#39    psyche101

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:41 AM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 01 November 2011 - 05:08 AM, said:

Joe Eszterhas, who later became a Hollywood screenwriter for such films like Basic Instinct, admitted that he used to laugh at UFO reports until he saw one in 1997.


http://books.google....epage&q&f=false


It seems he also got religion, too, at least as he got older.


I am not aware of his religious stance, but I have to give him a thumbs up for Basic Instinct. That classic scene with Sharon Stone will live forever. He deserves some leniency for that alone.

:devil:

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#40    psyche101

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:53 AM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 01 November 2011 - 05:19 AM, said:

Your link also mentions that:


"Hickson and Parker went to work the next day. While at work they got a phone call from the Sheriff's Office, telling them to come down to the station because the place was crawling with reporters. Hickson asked the sheriff about his promise not to leak the story. The sheriff replied he didn't leak the story but someone in his dept. must have. While on the phone with the sheriff, Hickson's foreman, Johnny Walker, overheard the phone conversation and told Hickson to get a lawyer because he may get some money for his story. Walker took the liberty of contacting the company lawyer who also was his brother in law an attorney by the name of Joe Colingo. Colingo arrived to accompany his new clients to the sheriffs office. Sheriff Diamond told Colingo that his department did not have a polygraph machine. Meanwhile Hickson was concerned that himself and Parker might have gotten radiation poisoning from the object. They were taken by Colingo and Detective Tom Huntley to the hospital, where they were informed that the hospital did not have the equipment to test for radiation exposure.

Detective Huntley then contacted Keesler, and the group headed off to the Air Base where a group of doctors under security conditions examined Hickson and Parker. Their medical report indicates that both men were in a severe state of mental stress, due to a traumatic experience, and that the men's report is probably correct, and that no radiation exposure was found. Then the two were interrogated by the entire Base Command about the encounter. Later on that same afternoon Hickson, Parker, and Parkers father met Colingo in his office and drew up a contract. Debunkers later claimed this fact is proof that the story was a hoax, but to the contrary Hickson soon after fired Colingo for the reason the lawyer was only in on this to win some money, and they both did not approved.

In 1976, three years later, Dr. Bast of the Harvard Hospital of Detroit conducted further psychological tests with both men. He concluded that neither of them suffers from any psychotic behaviour, hysteria or brain damage. He could not find any evidence of a twin-madness syndrome, a behaviour in which a subject of madness can exert some contamination on another person."

Johnny Walker! Must be a great guy indeed! :D

With regards to the radiation poisoning, if they had it, I doubt very much the Government would admit it, as with the Cash Landrum case. I do feel that there were probably quite a few unsuspecting test subjects inadvertently involved with projects like NERVA. But on that very same flip side, these men do not seem to have many official people advising them that they really should take their case to the courts as with that precedent. So I think I just told myself I am barking up the wrong tree here.

And Psychological tests were done, but I still wonder of some drug might be involved. Perhaps some sort of chemical reaction from something at the shipyard, maybe an uncataloged to science as yet fungus, or spore that releases a Hallucinogen that makes people see things like Aliens and Bigfoot. Maybe just a fun boys night out. Probably not, and absolutely nothing to indicate that is the case here, but I do wonder if such is possible.

Interesting to say the least, it seems a shame that so many of these cases seem to have a possible shady scenario. I feel some may not be evaluated as well as they should be due to surrounding circumstances, but all in all, with this case I find the CCTV hard to resolve.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#41    psyche101

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:57 AM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 01 November 2011 - 04:37 AM, said:

This is the site as it looks today:

Posted Image



They were questioned at Keesler Air Force Base as well, despite denials by the Air Force that it no longer investigates UFOs.  I think we know that's not really true.


Posted Image


Indeed it is not really true, if they get a call, and it could be a threat, they have to act. But I do not know that they are the forefront of modern ongoing investigation. Science has a sizable presence on that front regardless of the USAF stance. The Global situation demands it.

Great pic of the place! Quite an industry going on there.

Edited by psyche101, 01 November 2011 - 06:02 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#42    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:06 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 01 November 2011 - 05:53 AM, said:

And Psychological tests were done, but I still wonder of some drug might be involved. Perhaps some sort of chemical reaction from something at the shipyard, maybe an uncataloged to science as yet fungus, or spore that releases a Hallucinogen that makes people see things like Aliens and Bigfoot. Maybe just a fun boys night out. Probably not, and absolutely nothing to indicate that is the case here, but I do wonder if such is possible.

Interesting to say the least, it seems a shame that so many of these cases seem to have a possible shady scenario. I feel some may not be evaluated as well as they should be due to surrounding circumstances, but all in all, with this case I find the CCTV hard to resolve.


If these cases are real, and I think some of them are, then one possibility is as you say--that some branch of the government was behind it.  We have definite indications of military interest in this case and in the Hill case, and a number of odd circumstances.  I think something "real" did happen here, although we may never know what.  It has different effects on people, too.  I think it took years off the life of Barney Hill, for example, and caused Calvin Parker to have a breakdown.

Yet the same experiences turned Charles Hickson and Betty Hill into UFO enthusiasts and true believers in...well, something.

I wouldn't be able to explain either one of these cases as simply lying, hoaxing or fabrication.

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#43    quillius

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:31 AM

In response to the following from Psyche on another thread....
(going back over the thread it makes me miss McG)

Quote

Probably best to revive the old thread, but the camera in the shipyard is a massive hole to me. Also, Hickson was drunk when picked up, Parker admitted to fabricating at least part of the tale, and he refused to sit the polygraph.

  

There is no proof that a camera existed, let alone was operational or recording at the time, and most importantly that it was checked after the event.

I dont remember him refusing a polygraph? where did you see this mate?

and what part did Parker fabricate????

The cctv I had heard of when we discussed previously but the polygraph and fabrication are news to me.

going back over the thread...I really do find this case very compelling indeed. I also find the depiction of the being quite unique and fascinating when viewed in context of some of our previous conversations

edit to add: just remembered the 'fabrication' part you refer to is when he said he didnt really feint, yes?

Edited by quillius, 11 May 2012 - 09:51 AM.


#44    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:03 PM

View PostEnglishgent, on 27 October 2011 - 11:35 AM, said:

Please dont get me wrong here as I dont wish to detract from the OP's original post and I am not suggesting there is no evidence to support abductions, but I find it rather strange that this whole 'adbuction' thing seems to be an American phenonemon. Does anybody have any statistics as to how many adbuctions there are worldwide and not just in the USA?


Almost 4 million, this number for USA alone. This means that EVERY night, for the last 20 years, there were 548 abductions taking place, 11 average per US state.

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#45    quillius

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 11 May 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Almost 4 million, this number for USA alone. This means that EVERY night, for the last 20 years, there were 548 abductions taking place, 11 average per US state.

Have you a source for that figure please itsnotoutthere





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