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how the spirit world world really works!


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#16    shrooma

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:07 PM

 Frank Merton, on 06 May 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

They understand the priestly calling.
.
usually, the priests are calling 'hey, little boy, just come over here in this nice, dark cloister, i've got something to show you.....'
.
i've always wondered why paedophiles seem to gravitate towards the church, in the same way necrophiliacs always seem to end up as undertakers, or pedophiles (podophiles to our american cousins) get jobs in shoe stores.....

 Frank Merton, on 06 May 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:



Edited by shrooma, 06 May 2013 - 01:09 PM.

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#17    White Crane Feather

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:18 PM

 Irrelevant, on 06 May 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

I like this, what's your take on learning in the spirit world once we die physically.
It continues of course. Potentially comeing back as human or moving on to some other form of existence.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#18    White Crane Feather

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:27 PM

 shrooma, on 06 May 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:


.
usually, the priests are calling 'hey, little boy, just come over here in this nice, dark cloister, i've got something to show you.....'
.
i've always wondered why paedophiles seem to gravitate towards the church, in the same way necrophiliacs always seem to end up as undertakers, or pedophiles (podophiles to our american cousins) get jobs in shoe stores.....
There are pedophils everywhere. Firemen, police officers etc etc. There is not an over representation in religous organizations they just get more press.

Edited by Seeker79, 06 May 2013 - 03:28 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#19    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:36 PM

 Seeker79, on 06 May 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

It continues of course. Potentially comeing back as human or moving on to some other form of existence.
How can you be so sure?


#20    White Crane Feather

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:40 PM

 Frank Merton, on 06 May 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

I'm agnostic about spirits; never had any reason to think they are real, and have lots of reason to doubt the probity, rationality and/or seriousness of those who do.
Oh I'm very serious. Im not going to try to convince you of their existance, but I have close relationships with a few and have met many face to face, so rest assured that they are more real to me than you are. The tradition of the native shaman has a long history of working closely with spirits for the betterment of the people in his imeadiate surroundings. Being a modern shamanic practitioner myself, I have seen what my ancestors have seen. It's not just raddles and drumming. Those things are important tools for altering concious enough to become aware of the spirit world.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#21    White Crane Feather

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:42 PM

 Frank Merton, on 06 May 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:


How can you be so sure?
Because I have met spirits that used to be human, and now do other things. Would you like an example? But no I cant be sure. I might just be nuts. But I have to call it how I see it to be honest with myself.

Edited by Seeker79, 06 May 2013 - 03:43 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#22    White Crane Feather

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:48 PM

 Frank Merton, on 06 May 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:


Are you saying that there are spirits that don't believe in God?That's a new one to me; I always sorta assumed that if we ever have contact with aliens, that they will find our notions of God primitive and quaint, but maybe there are spirits who already know the score.
More advanced aliens will learn to use their minds to travel distances instead of spaceships. There is no need to use the resources to travel great distances when you understand that their are folded dimensions that out number the unfolded ones. No need to go anywhere, because in stirng theory anyway you are already there in seven dimensions. It's merely a matter of tuning your mind into the available information that's right here with you at all times. I suspect many 'spirit' encounters are also extraterrestrial. It sounds a little tin hat like. But the physics is there.

Edited by Seeker79, 06 May 2013 - 03:49 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#23    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:55 PM

With a Buddhist upbringing I naturally have most of my life believed in some sort of re-birth process, although not that it is a good thing, but a process somehow to be sidestepped so as to enter Nirvana.

Nowadays I tend to think that happens but that is just an automatic thing of no significance, since the personality and memories are destroyed with the death of the body and all you have left is a disembodied life spirit.  The person dies; any rebirth is a new person.

This is the key point; whether or not the personality and memories are preserved, and the evidence from aging and certain diseases fairly clearly shows  that these are dependent on healthy brain.


#24    Ryu

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:58 PM

 Irrelevant, on 06 May 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

There's atheist spirits to frank, some of them still professing even in the spirit world there's no God, if life itself can't prove it then death brings no more comfort.  God is invisible in both worlds but happy to proved wrong.

Why do we insist on applying physical human beliefs to everything? Why must spirits believe in anything and why is there this concept that they somehow 'know' the so-called 'truth'? All of this is subjective and relative. (assuming for the moment that spirits exist, of course).


#25    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:03 PM

I think we anthropomorphize because if we don't we have nothing more to say.  If they are so different then they are different and that's all we can say, and the conversation is over.


#26    White Crane Feather

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:10 PM

 Frank Merton, on 06 May 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

With a Buddhist upbringing I naturally have most of my life believed in some sort of re-birth process, although not that it is a good thing, but a process somehow to be sidestepped so as to enter Nirvana.

Nowadays I tend to think that happens but that is just an automatic thing of no significance, since the personality and memories are destroyed with the death of the body and all you have left is a disembodied life spirit.  The person dies; any rebirth is a new person.

This is the key point; whether or not the personality and memories are preserved, and the evidence from aging and certain diseases fairly clearly shows  that these are dependent on healthy brain.
I believe that the information of you, your, memories, your experiences and personality are indeed stored somewhere. If not on purpose then simply a matter of infinity and finite arrangements of matter. If there is any spiritual reality, then your brain is an antenna for conciousness not a generator. The information of you that you need at the moment  is being channeled and temporarily cached in the brain. Yes if you monkey with the receiver the reception will be gone or fuzzy. This is backed up by current brain science in that memories seem to be recreated everytime they are recalled instead of accessing a biological storage.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#27    Einsteinium

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 05:38 PM

 Irrelevant, on 06 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

Hi,

This is a invitation to all believers in the Non-Corpereal world to discuss how it works, how it interacts with us and how we as the creations of God interact with it.

I would ask we be respectful to each other.

I'm curious to know what others opinions are on how it works. (I have a reasonable understanding)

What happens when we die? We merge with the universe and for a moment we know ultimate truth, then depending upon our own karmic debts most of us will then go through a process of descending from this realization, swirling downward towards entropy until ultimately we become yet another discrete observer in the universe and hence we are born into a new life.

Where do we go? That depends on a multitude of factors such as your own beliefs, your own expectations, your own desires, and your karmic debts.

What do you think it will be like? It will be like falling through memory, time, color, energy, and space all at the same time like one crazy psychedelic trip.

Will you see God or is he invisible both in the Corpereal and noncorpereal worlds? You will see God, but not in the way you are used to seeing, you will see God within yourself, and yourself within God.

How can we grow spiritually there or do we grow at all? Ultimately this is up to you. If you value and seek truth then you will continue to have opportunities to do so. You will have many, many, perhaps an infinite number of lives or experiences of lives to grow yourself spiritually. But it is up to you to chose to use your time to do this and to seek out the things that lead to growth in this way, and avoid the things that hamper that growth.

How do we receive messages from spirits? We receive messages from parts of ourselves, you may think you see your dead grandma, and you do in that you see the part of her that is within yourself. The illusion of separateness is created by your consciousness to make sense of experience and process information, this illusion manifests itself into reality in our world of discreet conscious entities, but in the world of non-discreteness the illusion only persists if you do not realize that it is an illusion. In that sense, the messages your receive from spirits are really realizations that you are having within yourself, things that perhaps you need to hear, need to see, need to understand, but that you were unable to do so within the manifested world of separateness, and so once that illusion is no longer objectively true, only subjectively true, you can now hear and understand the things that the illusion was preventing you from understanding before. Often these are things you already know in your heart to be true, but that you doubted when confronted with the illusion of separateness. And so once the illusion is broken, you can understand these things and if your consciousness is not ready to confront a world of non-separateness then you will perceive these realizations as coming from separate discrete spiritual beings. Recognize that these beings represent parts of your own self and are not separate beings.

How can we tell if these are divine spirits or Evil spirits? (How can we test them or reasonably know what the level of spirit is trying to connect with us) They are parts of your own conscious mind. The evil parts within yourself can manifest as evil spirits and this can be terrifying. The divine parts within the self can be represented as divine spirits. Recognize them as parts of your own self, and do not be afraid. They cannot hurt you so long as you recognize their true nature. Whether divine or evil, accept them as part of yourself and try to take this opportunity to rid yourself of the fear you have regarding them.

Does are emotional state directly influence the type of spirit that is connecting with us? Because the spirits are representations of parts of our own selves, often parts that we either neglected or that we love most of all, your emotional state directly influences them, and a negative emotional state, like a state of fear or hatred, can manifest itself as an evil being. Similarly, an emotional state of love and compassion can be manifested as a divine being. Recognize your emotions as yours, Come to terms with your emotions and accept them. Do not be afraid of your own self.

Why can't we see spirits Because here in the discreet physical world of separateness your mind is contained within your body for the most part, and so your mind is unable to manifest spirits (which are extensions of your own self) into physical reality. They are extensions of yourself and you are somewhat limited as to how you can experience and deal with these parts of yourself in discrete reality. When you move into non-discrete reality, your mind for the most part is no longer limited by a physical system, it thus can express itself in many different ways. Think of when you are asleep and dreaming, when you dream you are experiencing an artificial state of non-discreetness. Your mind can create people, spirits, emotions, places...but these things are not real, they are just a projection of your own self. This is what happens in non-discreet reality, only you are fully conscious and it is absolutely real to you. It is like lucid dreaming in a way, you have some control over what happens, but parts of your mind can be at odds, some people call this spiritual warfare.

Lucid dreaming is a perfect example. In order to successfully lucid dream, you must realize that you are dreaming during the dream. Once you realize this, you are able to control the dream. This is exactly the same with the world of non-discreetness. Once you realize what it is and that everything going on is a projection of your own mind, you are able to control it, and if you are ready, you will leave it behind and come to know ultimate truth.

There's many more questions than written here, if you know the answer to one or perhaps more please share what your thoughts are on these.

I had fun with this, Just throwing some things out there as food for thought. I cannot prove anything I have said. It is merely some idea's I have thought of when researching and thinking about this subject. Enjoy :)


#28    markprice

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:27 PM

Here's a grim thought: (loosely quoting Robert Bly quoting someone else) "If you do not learn in this life all you get is an apartment in the land of the dead".

Then what should you learn, if that is the word he used? Learn to remember what you forgot is a common spiritual answer with no practical value unless you already sense  what that means.

Conscience is based on the individual's reaction to seeing something in pain... some people just don't really have it.

A person could be singing bloody murder in a death metal band for decades without it ever altering their conscience in a negative way.

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#29    Einsteinium

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:39 PM

 markprice, on 06 May 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Here's a grim thought: (loosely quoting Robert Bly quoting someone else) "If you do not learn in this life all you get is an apartment in the land of the dead".

Then what should you learn, if that is the word he used? Learn to remember what you forgot is a common spiritual answer with no practical value unless you already sense  what that means.

Conscience is based on the individual's reaction to seeing something in pain... some people just don't really have it.

A person could be singing bloody murder in a death metal band for decades without it ever altering their conscience in a negative way.
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Edited by Einsteinium, 06 May 2013 - 07:40 PM.


#30    markprice

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:54 PM

 Einsteinium, on 06 May 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

4. Learn about what you think.

wow, that one hit me like a zen koan.

"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"




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