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What does this mean for America?


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#61    MissMelsWell

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:35 AM

View Postjoc, on 09 November 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

We have the best Health Care System in the world dude!  And maybe you should clue up...half the people in this country don't even pay taxes!!
I was done until I re-read the part in red...now I'm pissed off...don't lecture me!  You don't know me like that!  The United States of America doesn't need to be Re-created into a Communist Hierarchy...truly unified?  Good god man...where did you learn all that crap?  Wait...the public school system...never freaking mind...you sir, are a tool of the government...that's all you'll ever be...unless you wise up to what capitalism is...if you think you know...explain it..in your own words...yeah, explain to us all in your own words how capitalism works.  There, go for it...either that or shut up!

Wrong. If we had the best healthcare in the world, I woudn't be going through what I'm going through now.

Let me clue you in a bit. I went for more than 10 years, working the entire time, and had NO health insurance. Now, I have to have a roughly 25K surgery which will likely lay me up for 6 weeks with a week of that in the hospital.  Thankfuly I do have health insurance now even if it sucks, but I'm still going to end up owing about $2500 I don't have. Ya, awesome health care. Had I been able to afford to see a doctor, and was offered insurance for those ten years, my upcoming surgery might have been easier than what I"m going to go through in a couple of weeks.

Good health care here in the US? Sure, if you have insurance. If you don't, you plain don't go to the doctor unless you're taken there via ambulance with no other choice.

"It's time for the American people to stand up and shrug off the shackles of our government at TSA at the airport"  Ron Paul

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

#62    joc

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:33 AM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 10 November 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Wrong. If we had the best healthcare in the world, I woudn't be going through what I'm going through now.

Let me clue you in a bit. I went for more than 10 years, working the entire time, and had NO health insurance. Now, I have to have a roughly 25K surgery which will likely lay me up for 6 weeks with a week of that in the hospital.  Thankfuly I do have health insurance now even if it sucks, but I'm still going to end up owing about $2500 I don't have. Ya, awesome health care. Had I been able to afford to see a doctor, and was offered insurance for those ten years, my upcoming surgery might have been easier than what I"m going to go through in a couple of weeks.

Good health care here in the US? Sure, if you have insurance. If you don't, you plain don't go to the doctor unless you're taken there via ambulance with no other choice.
I wish you nothing but wellness and good tidings on your upcoming surgical experience.  :wub:
And you are absolutely correct...no argument about Health Insurance...without it you are screwed!  With it you are still screwed!   What I am talking about is the Health Care not the ability to pay for it...but let's face it...if you can't afford it...you are screwed so, really, what the hell good is the best Health Care Treatment Facilities on the face of god's grey earth if you aren't able to access them when you need them?

But there are a lot of good ideas toward finding solutions for that which do not put the Government in charge of it all.   ObamaCare doesn't solve anything...it just enslaves the masses.

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#63    MissMelsWell

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:48 AM

If I'd had Obamacare 10 years ago, I wouldn't be facing the type of surgery I am now. The end.

Know what it would have costed me to buy my own insurance when I had none (and that would have been for only 65% coverage) .... $670 Per MONTH. A good deal more than my car payment. And I couldn't give up the car, I needed a good working car to get back and forth to my JOB so I could have a place to live and food to eat. With that coverage, the surgery I'm giong to have would have costed me about $7000 out of pocket. Something I couldn't have afforded. So, I never had insurance.

So something has to give. Obamacare is a start. It's not perfect, it might not even be right, but it's SOMETHING. On Obamacare, my total out of pocket expenses for a year would have been significantly less that $670 a month and I woudn't be facing a $7K bill after treatment. If that dings the insurance companies, so be it, they'll have to find another way to make gobs of money.

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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

#64    joc

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:35 AM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 10 November 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

If I'd had Obamacare 10 years ago, I wouldn't be facing the type of surgery I am now. The end.

Know what it would have costed me to buy my own insurance when I had none (and that would have been for only 65% coverage) .... $670 Per MONTH. A good deal more than my car payment. And I couldn't give up the car, I needed a good working car to get back and forth to my JOB so I could have a place to live and food to eat. With that coverage, the surgery I'm giong to have would have costed me about $7000 out of pocket. Something I couldn't have afforded. So, I never had insurance.

So something has to give. Obamacare is a start. It's not perfect, it might not even be right, but it's SOMETHING. On Obamacare, my total out of pocket expenses for a year would have been significantly less that $670 a month and I woudn't be facing a $7K bill after treatment. If that dings the insurance companies, so be it, they'll have to find another way to make gobs of money.
When all the insurance companies are out of business...and the government insurance is the only game in town...the costs will go up higher than you can imagine...and the services that you so desperately needed maynot even be available...not for $7000 or even $70,000...

Saying that ObamaCare is something that is better than nothing is just wishful thinking...I hope I am wrong...but I think..you and everyone else in these United States is going to be in for a very, very rude awakening.   And let's face it...that is why Obama won.  Because (no offense) people like you were afraid that what they thought was Affordable HealthCare would be stripped from them...It isn't going to be affordable and you ain't gonna like what you get...so get your surgery now while you still can before this Monster kills the very Golden Goose of Health Services that you need.

All that being said...as previously mentioned...I agree with you...but ObamaCare completely and forever exacerbates to the nth degree a problem that could have been solved in a responsible way....but the SlaveMasters of the Democrat Party know just how to manipulate and pull the strings of America's Masses to get them where they want to go.

Edited by joc, 10 November 2012 - 04:36 AM.

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#65    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:05 AM

View Postjoc, on 10 November 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

Saying that ObamaCare is something that is better than nothing is just wishful thinking...I hope I am wrong...

You are wrong, costs are going to go down and access is going to increase.

Also about the US having the best health care, not overall. Look at the average life expectancy, infant mortality rate, and mortality amenable to health care rates for countries and compare then to ours.

Preventative healthcare makes a difference as does preventative maintenance on an automobile.

http://en.wikipedia....nal_comparisons

Edited by Chasingtherabbit, 10 November 2012 - 09:08 AM.


#66    Jinxdom

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:15 AM

Before Obamacare I've seen people get outright denied care(Only way to get around that was for it to be an emergency, aka an ambulance ride), outright denied insurance, people get insurance find they have an ailment that will be around all their lives then dropped because they were to risky for insurance companies.

Imagine getting a physical which is cheap finding out you might need a major surgery then getting dropped from your insurance when the doctors report it to the insurance company. I wouldn't call that insurance I would call that getting paid for nothing. That was how the system was.(This happened quite often.)

I'm actually quite happy not paying 75 bucks an aspirin(Seriously that crap tallies pretty quickly and puts a huge dent on your coverage, I couldn't even tell if it was the hospital charging it or the insurance company just claiming it was just to justify me paying out more out of pocket) and I can actually see what is being paid out now instead of fighting for the complete bill(A list of what I actually was paying out for), instead of seeing only the line of total bill.

It's holds both the hospital and insurances companies to make sure they liable for their actions. It's not a perfect system by far but it is a step in the right direction.

I am not against paying taxes at all if the cash is spent correctly. (key word here is correctly). I see it as an investment to my country. I want people to have their basic needs met so they in turn can be able to help out and improve our country. The idea of no taxes/less taxes is horrifying if you really think about it and is more detrimental to the growth of our country. I help the old because they helped me out when I was young(Good luck to any child trying to pay their own way since a ton of parents cannot do so themselves), and I will help the young now so when I get old they will help me. That isn't socialism, it's called protecting my own butt. I think of it as insurance.

People need to look at the whole picture sometimes.


#67    MissMelsWell

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:15 AM

Joc, go read up. You're SO wrong about it. Nevermind, don't even bother. You've probably never been seriously ill, working full time or more, and without health care.You'll never understand.

Oh, and my 25 year old daughter is going to have health care for the first time since she was 18. She couldn't afford it previously and she's worked full time since she was 17! But a kid who makes $14 an hour can't afford $670 a month for half-assed coverage.

Edited by MissMelsWell, 10 November 2012 - 10:28 AM.

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#68    joc

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 10 November 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Joc, go read up. You're SO wrong about it. Nevermind, don't even bother. You've probably never been seriously ill, working full time or more, and without health care.You'll never understand.

Oh, and my 25 year old daughter is going to have health care for the first time since she was 18. She couldn't afford it previously and she's worked full time since she was 17! But a kid who makes $14 an hour can't afford $670 a month for half-assed coverage.
'Scuse me!  Go read up?  Really!  Are you freaking serious!?  Go read up??  Hmmm...that is really interesting...No one in Congress read the Freaking BIll and you are telling me...go read up??  Please!  


Quote


Jinxdom said:
Before Obamacare I've seen people get outright denied care(Only way to get around that was for it to be an emergency, aka an ambulance ride), outright denied insurance, people get insurance find they have an ailment that will be around all their lives then dropped because they were to risky for insurance companies.
Yes...and ObamaCare hasn't even begun yet...and you don't really have any idea what is going to happen when it does begin...

...I want my ObamaPhone, I want my ObamaBucks,  I want my ObamaCare...
This is why the guy was re-elected...

I am hereby forever mending this old saying:   ...it now will read....    You can fool Half of the people ALL of the time...

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#69    Br Cornelius

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:46 PM

I think what all this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining minority. Pandering to a declining minority is always going to marginalize you politically.
I think what this means is that everyone is in a minority of some kind, and picking on a minority to vilify is stupid because all those other minorities realize that they will be the next victim on the list.
I think what this means is that a grouping which respects the individuality of the electorate will always have broader support than those who expect conformity.
I think what this means is that the sizable minority of American poor have finally realized that trickle down economics is a lie peddled by those who have sent all of Americas assets to offshore bank accounts.


I think what this means is the venal form of Conservative Republicanism been espoused by one party is a dying faction and the sooner they realize that we are not all white,middle/upper class married heterosexuals, the sooner they will be re-elected.

That just my thoughts though :tu:

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 10 November 2012 - 07:11 PM.

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#70    joc

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:37 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 10 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I think what all this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining minority.
I would rephrase this statement:  I think what this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining MAJORITY.   Once upon a time, the Majority of Americans were indeed White Christian Conservatives...then the demographics of the country changed and America became a Majority of Christian Conservative Ethnic Groups.   Then the demographics of the country changed again and America became a Majority of Diverse Religious and Ethnic Conservatives.   Then, once more, the demographics changed and America became a Majority of Diverse Religious and Ethnic Liberals.   Conservatives of all beliefs, and races, became a minority.....

...the fear of course is that the demographics will change again and America will be a Majority of Slaves of the State with no Power, no Freedom and No Hope to ever recover from that state.

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#71    EllJay

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 10 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I think what all this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining minority. Pandering to a declining minority is always going to marginalize you politically.


Someone recently said: ‘Republicans have the same problem as the Beach Boys. Their fans are dying.’

But doing some kind of panic, obvious, transparent, shullbit, 180  -like Sean Hannity did two days after the election when the demographic statistic was in- on an issue that the conservatives has been pounding on forever, is just so idiotic and obvious that one cant even laugh at it.
I'm amazed that he could keep a straight face, or tone.....or scratch that, nothing that guy says or do amazes me.
He is such a tool, but I think we will see a lot of these kind of 180´s in the near future. We are in for a joyride in comedy soon.

The next GOP nominee might be a white Latino/African American in-vitro, who is a cross-dressing in a manly but yet female way, anti drug but pot-smoking, gun-toting peace lover, atheistic-evangelical Muslim Sikh Buddhist, bi-metro-sexual cowboy who tries to pander to everyone and everything just to get ahead.

Quote

Fox News host Sean Hannity said on Thursday that he's "evolved" on the issue of immigration. ...

The conservative commentator said given the support President Obama received from Hispanic and female voters in Tuesday's election, the GOP needs to evaluate its priorities and message. ...

Hannity has long opposed immigration reform proposals that would provide a pathway to residency for those who have entered the country illegally, deriding it as "amnesty." But in his post-election comments, he suggested the GOP had to move on the issue to keep from losing the fastest-growing bloc in the country.


Read more: http://times247.com/...n#ixzz2BqpB3O7d



Evolved???...really??....does he even believe in evolution?




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#72    EllJay

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:08 PM

View Postjoc, on 10 November 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

I would rephrase this statement:  I think what this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining MAJORITY.   Once upon a time, the Majority of Americans were indeed White Christian Conservatives...then the demographics of the country changed
...the fear of course is that the demographics will change again and America will be a Majority of Slaves of the State with no Power, no Freedom and No Hope to ever recover from that state.
'

I thought in the beginning the demographic of the America was native Americans, then -by some means- `the demographics of the country changed´ on that issue, and then the real `slaves of the state´were brought over there by force.

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#73    joc

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:11 PM

View PostEllJay, on 10 November 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

'

I thought in the beginning the demographic of the America was native Americans, then -by some means- `the demographics of the country changed´ on that issue, and then the real `slaves of the state´were brought over there by force.
There was no America until the White Europeans created it...and btw...I wish they had never come...Instead of typing on a platic keyboard, I'd be dancing over the Buffalo I just shot with an arrow.

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#74    Br Cornelius

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:43 PM

The question is - can an old dog learn new tricks. The British Conservatives have tried, but it seems that they just can't leave their old minority hating habits alone. The Conservatives are dragging themselves apart as they try to rediscover their glory days as Margaret Thatchers lap dogs.

Its very difficult for a Conservative to accept the reality of the world as it currently is, it goes against everything they actually believe to be true. Bush Jnr and his Neocon budies simply tied to brazen it out and redefine reality in their own image - see where that got them (Iraq).

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#75    LucidElement

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:51 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 09 November 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Please explain to me how 0bama care even remotly puts us on par with Canada? Compromise? Granting the government powers not granted to it by the constitution isnt compromise. Its a criminal violation. Funny, you seem to be a fairly inteligent person in the manor you speak. Problem is no matter how you express yourself, you dont seem to be informed on this subject at all.

hey preacher, i understand somewhat where you are comng from on this.. from what i grasp i def agree with you. But can you re-explain what you were saying.. the part "granting the government powers not grandted to it by the constitution isnt comprise"... i guess the "powers not granted to it" is throwing me off. thanks bud.

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