4705 replies to this topic

[booNyzarC]

TheMacGuffin, on 13 October 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Long ago, in a 1965 newspaper article, Carl Sagan was referred to as "an adviser on ET life for the Armed Services", which comes a lot closer to the truth than most people realize.

http://www.google.co...2ME-YpuBYYtfi3g



Now he did introduce a great deal of information to the public about this subject, but by no means everything he knew.


Do you see what I'm saying, Boon?

I do see what you are saying, just as I saw what you were saying when you brought up this speculative article in the past.  What did Sagan purportedly say exactly?

"But Dr. Carl Sagan, adviser on Extra-Terrestrial life for the Armed Services, said we must assume that they have bases on the other said of the Moon," said Pierce.

What we have here is someone telling us that someone else told them that Sagan supposedly said this.  I'm sure you've played the game "telephone" before, or at the very least heard of it.  As such it is easy to understand how and why this cannot be considered a reliable quotation of what Sagan originally said.  Even if it were reliable, what could we extract from such a comment?  That he suggested the military should assume ET has bases on the far side of the moon?  Okay, so what?  From a defense standpoint, it would only be prudent to prepare for the possibility of such a case, especially in those early days when the UFO phenomena was such a high defense concern at the start of the Cold War.

To make an honest assessment of this narrative, we should compare it with things that we know for a fact were said by Carl Sagan.  We know for a fact that he was a firm believer in the likelihood of extra terrestrial life.  We know for a fact that such study was of great interest to him.  We also know for a fact that he was highly skeptical of the claims made by UFOlogy.  It seems to me that it would follow from this that the quote of a quote of a quote in that article could easily have been taken out of context and/or slightly mis-worded in the retelling.

Do you see what I'm saying?

[booNyzarC]

TheMacGuffin, on 13 October 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

They always pounce on me, saying I never have any evidence, but I have proved them wrong a couple thousand times.  I can do so any time I choose.

A couple thousand times eh?  Wow, what an impressive resume you have.  I wonder what would happen if someone were to check your references for this.

[synchronomy]

TheMacGuffin, on 13 October 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

They always pounce on me, saying I never have any evidence, but I have proved them wrong a couple thousand times.  I can do so any time I choose.

You're in a fortunate position in that you can provide proof.  Most of the information I have was provided verbally and "off the record".  Much akin to "cafeteria talk"  Not just relating to Sagan, but to ET contact and current on-going research.

[TheMacGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 13 October 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

A couple thousand times eh?  Wow, what an impressive resume you have.  I wonder what would happen if someone were to check your references for this.

Oh, at least that many, but I will give you credit for being a good spin meister.

[TheMacGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 13 October 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

I do see what you are saying, just as I saw what you were saying when you brought up this speculative article in the past.  What did Sagan purportedly say exactly?

"But Dr. Carl Sagan, adviser on Extra-Terrestrial life for the Armed Services, said we must assume that they have bases on the other said of the Moon," said Pierce.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I was very curious about that part where he was an adviser on ETs for the military, which is not found on his resume.

You already know about his 1962 lecture to astronomers where he mentions alien civilizations sending out expeditions to earth "every few thousand years", or maybe more frequently when they found life, and that they might have bases on the moon and other places on the solar system.  

None of this is made up.


http://www.google.co...QDF9QjaQJoLlK2Q

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 13 October 2012 - 05:19 PM.

[TheMacGuffin]

synchronomy, on 13 October 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

You're in a fortunate position in that you can provide proof.  Most of the information I have was provided verbally and "off the record".  Much akin to "cafeteria talk"  Not just relating to Sagan, but to ET contact and current on-going research.

I heard plenty of that too over the years, but I rarely mention it, at least not directly.

[badeskov]

booNyzarC, on 13 October 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

A couple thousand times eh?  Wow, what an impressive resume you have.

Indeed, rather impressive if that was the case. Alas not.

Quote

I wonder what would happen if someone were to check your references for this.

An exercise in futility?

Cheers,
Badeskov

[TheMacGuffin]

badeskov, on 13 October 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Indeed, rather impressive if that was the case. Alas not.

An exercise in futility?

Another county heard from.  That's nice.

[TheMacGuffin]

Of course it was Frank Edwards who said that SETI originally started out as a military-funded program in the 1950s, and that the classified version was far larger and better-financed than the public version we know about.  Maybe that was also part of the general job description of the ET "advisers" to the military.

Some people have even said that the original (classified) version of SETI was called Project Plato, but I have no way of knowing if that's true.'


http://www.google.co...C1Zff1Cn4MleKLw

[TheMacGuffin]

Here are some other interesting tidbits about Carl Sagan, which are the 'tip of the iceberg' as they say.

"Sagan was able to conduct a secret study for the U.S. Air Force–related Armour Research Foundation on the possibility and effects of detonating nuclear weapons in the Moon. After his death, a biographer accused Sagan of violating security rules by confiding the existence of the secret study to a limited number of people in order to boost his chances of winning a fellowship in California."

He was a technical adviser for 2001: A Space Odyssey, thought that Mars was inhabited, and so on.


http://www.google.co...1zXoInhYrQWrThA

[booNyzarC]

TheMacGuffin, on 13 October 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

I was very curious about that part where he was an adviser on ETs for the military, which is not found on his resume.

You already know about his 1962 lecture to astronomers where he mentions alien civilizations sending out expeditions to earth "every few thousand years", or maybe more frequently when they found life, and that they might have bases on the moon and other places on the solar system.  

None of this is made up.


http://www.google.co...QDF9QjaQJoLlK2Q

And your point is?

This is all common knowledge.  We know that he speculated about such possibilities, many people have.  He also realizes that the conclusions hinge on the accuracy of the formula he used and the data which was input.  He's speaking in terms of probability, not in terms of actuality.

For that matter, I don't disagree in the same possibility that the earth has been visited, could be visited, or is being visited.  I find the idea completely plausible as I'm sure Sagan did.  There just isn't any verifiable evidence with which to draw any firm conclusions about the actuality of this plausible scenario; no matter how much you may think otherwise.

[TheMacGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 13 October 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

And your point is?

This is all common knowledge.  We know that he speculated about such possibilities, many people have.  He also realizes that the conclusions hinge on the accuracy of the formula he used and the data which was input.  He's speaking in terms of probability, not in terms of actuality.

Since it's all "common knowledge" I'm surprised you didn't post any of it since I do regard you as an expert on all things common.

[booNyzarC]

TheMacGuffin, on 13 October 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Since it's all "common knowledge" I'm surprised you didn't post any of it since I do regard you as an expert on all things common.

Here you go with your imaginary pissing contest again.

Why would you expect me to post random facts about Carl Sagan?

[TheMacGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 13 October 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Here you go with your imaginary pissing contest again.

Why would you expect me to post random facts about Carl Sagan?

You're the one who's been going today, like a firecracker on speed.

Is it Miller Time wherever you are?

[booNyzarC]

TheMacGuffin, on 13 October 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

You're the one who's been going today, like a firecracker on speed.

I've been posting more over the last few days, not just today.

TheMacGuffin, on 13 October 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Is it Miller Time wherever you are?

If you're asking whether I'm drinking right now I'd like to point out that it is none of your business.  That being said, coffee and water are the only beverages I've had today.  Would you like to know what I had for lunch too?