48 replies to this topic

[Stellar]

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I didn't know we needed to go into military strategy 101...

Just how many medals have you awarded yourself, Mr. Armchair General?

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If that drone came from an Iranian sub somewhere in the Med then that sub has committed an act of war.

Do you really think that the US and Israel have not done the same thing to Iran? What about the US drone that was brought down over Iran a few months back? This is a fully natural and expected progression based on the circumstances. Lets not jump the gun, cry foul call Iran evil over this. It'd be hypocritical.

[and then]

Stellar, on 08 October 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

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Just how many medals have you awarded yourself, Mr. Armchair General?



Do you really think that the US and Israel have not done the same thing to Iran? What about the US drone that was brought down over Iran a few months back? This is a fully natural and expected progression based on the circumstances. Lets not jump the gun, cry foul call Iran evil over this. It'd be hypocritical.

It would be childish to complain, I agree.  And equally naive to assume Iran had no part in it at all.  Hizbullah is one of their chief clients in the region and the source of all their weapons, training and technology.  Just operating the drone might well have been Hizbullah personnel but almost certainly they were trained by the IRGC.

[Stellar]

and then, on 08 October 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

It would be childish to complain, I agree.  And equally naive to assume Iran had no part in it at all.  Hizbullah is one of their chief clients in the region and the source of all their weapons, training and technology.  Just operating the drone might well have been Hizbullah personnel but almost certainly they were trained by the IRGC.

The training is completely irrelevant, in my opinion. Training a country/organization to use a certain piece of equipment doesnt necessarily make you complicit in their future actions --- unless the training was done with the specific intent and knowledge of their planned actions. What I suspect happening here is more than a simple case of the IRGC training the guilty party. I think that Iran actively sought out another organization/country in the area to conduct the surveillance mission so that, if the drone is shot down, they can claim plausible deniability.

Having said that, I do not have any evidence of this currently.

[Yamato]

OMG!  A drone was flying in Israel?!    That's even more dangerous than a kite.  

No wonder Palestinian kids are banned from toys.

Hey let's smear poop on Egypt over this yawning koolaid non-story too.  Oh wait, Israel has to bomb Palestinians before the US Presidential elections again, I nearly forgot.

[and then]

Yamato, on 08 October 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

OMG!  A drone was flying in Israel?! That's even more dangerous than a kite.  

No wonder Palestinian kids are banned from toys.

Hey let's smear poop on Egypt over this yawning koolaid non-story too.  Oh wait, Israel has to bomb Palestinians before the US Presidential elections again, I nearly forgot.

Yam you're being a putz again.  But yeah a drone is no big deal EXCEPT if someone had a canister of VX or Sarin attached to aerosolize over a target in a city.  Then it's pretty bad news.  And I said Egypt would be complicit if a sub was launching drones in the Mediterranean.  Kinda hard to get a sub through the Suez canal on the down low...so to speak....

[RavenHawk]

and then, on 07 October 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

I know very little of drone capabilities but the reports suggest that it was launched from southern Lebanon,flew south over the Med and then back east over Israel.  That's just over 120 miles depending on the route.  It seems like it would have been detected sooner.  A sub in the Med would mean Egyptian complicity almost certainly.

Ah, so if this is the latest info, then Hezbollah is asking for it again.  Have they already rebuilt their infrastructure?  Just in time for it to get demolished again.  I think Iran is the only nation that could have supplied the drone.  With the unrest in Syria what all could be transported to Hezbollah?  And for the converse?  What goes into Lebanon, something can come out?  If it was a sub or even an Iranian merchantman, Egypt could be complicit.  More than likely after the fact.

[The New Richard Nixon]

RavenHawk, on 08 October 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

Ah, so if this is the latest info, then Hezbollah is asking for it again.  Have they already rebuilt their infrastructure?  Just in time for it to get demolished again.  I think Iran is the only nation that could have supplied the drone.  With the unrest in Syria what all could be transported to Hezbollah?  And for the converse?  What goes into Lebanon, something can come out?  If it was a sub or even an Iranian merchantman, Egypt could be complicit.  More than likely after the fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirsad-1

[RavenHawk]

Stellar, on 08 October 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Just how many medals have you awarded yourself, Mr. Armchair General?

At least I have some awareness of strategy and tactics.

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Do you really think that the US and Israel have not done the same thing to Iran? What about the US drone that was brought down over Iran a few months back? This is a fully natural and expected progression based on the circumstances. Lets not jump the gun, cry foul call Iran evil over this. It'd be hypocritical.

Absolutely!  That US drone is an act of war but Iran didn’t have the guts to pull the trigger.  On the other hand, we really never had an adequate response to the 79 hostage crisis.  It only needs a trigger.  I agree, let’s not jump the gun.  No need to call Iran evil.

[RavenHawk]

The New Richard Nixon, on 08 October 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirsad-1

Very true but I would have thought that this fleet was destroyed in 2007.  But the bottom line is that Iran is supplying them.  Whether one escaped destruction in 2007 or Hezbollah got resupplied under cover of the Syrian civil war who knows??  Perhaps studying the wreckage will help?

[Stellar]

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At least I have some awareness of strategy and tactics.

Oh you do, do you? And just how did you gain this awareness?

[questionmark]

RavenHawk, on 08 October 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

Very true but I would have thought that this fleet was destroyed in 2007.  But the bottom line is that Iran is supplying them.  Whether one escaped destruction in 2007 or Hezbollah got resupplied under cover of the Syrian civil war who knows??  Perhaps studying the wreckage will help?

Building a drone itself is not as complicated as one might think. Any half way skilled model plane builder can get that together. The much more interesting question is: How did they control it without anybody being aware of it?

[RavenHawk]

Stellar, on 08 October 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Oh you do, do you? And just how did you gain this awareness?

All I can claim is that I am a student of military history and I have been involved with intelligence gathering in the military.  That’s why I claim “some awareness”.  What can you claim?

[RavenHawk]

questionmark, on 08 October 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Building a drone itself is not as complicated as one might think. Any half way skilled model plane builder can get that together.

That is true.  That is why they need to analyze the wreckage.  But would one “just” put together be able to fly over 120miles?  And how ‘bout the skill of the remote pilot?  You need training and experience to handle drones.

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The much more interesting question is: How did they control it without anybody being aware of it?

Did they not follow it for awhile?  It was eventually shot down after flying over Israel for about ½ hour.  The reports claim they knew about it from the beginning but given the history it probably still took about 15mins to react.  The thing is that probing the enemy for weaknesses also reveals yours.

[questionmark]

RavenHawk, on 08 October 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

That is true.  That is why they need to analyze the wreckage.  But would one “just” put together be able to fly over 120miles?  And how ‘bout the skill of the remote pilot?  You need training and experience to handle drones.

No more skills than your model pilot would need. And last I knew (though my stats are a little aged) in Lebanon there were a couple hundred of them.

RavenHawk, on 08 October 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Did they not follow it for awhile?  It was eventually shot down after flying over Israel for about ½ hour.  The reports claim they knew about it from the beginning but given the history it probably still took about 15mins to react.  The thing is that probing the enemy for weaknesses also reveals yours.

If they would have known the source of the controlling station a Harm rocket or two would have taken it out of bidness in a few seconds.

[Yamato]

and then, on 08 October 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Yam you're being a putz again.  But yeah a drone is no big deal EXCEPT if someone had a canister of VX or Sarin attached to aerosolize over a target in a city.  Then it's pretty bad news.  And I said Egypt would be complicit if a sub was launching drones in the Mediterranean.  Kinda hard to get a sub through the Suez canal on the down low...so to speak....

If Egypt is so bad, stand with "a putz" like me and demand the end of its subsidization via US taxpayer wealth.   How am I being a "putz"?  And how the hell do you get away with name calling on this board?

Someone could aerosolize a target in a city anywhere there's drones flying overhead.  How about looking up and being paranoid for yourself instead of your beloved special interest group paid for with my money?