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Who Are You In Truth?


Holographic60

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Since Einsten, science has been revealing to us, (to those that pay attention), that the material world, and everything we sense and percieve about it, is illusory.

That space and time are interpretations of our organic aspect, and brain.

www.platonia.com - Re: "The End of Time"

If that is the case who are you at your essence then? Or, what?

Are you sure the world is real as it seems?

What is "real" ?

Is there a greater reality that is invisible to us, then? Which this world of time and space is surrounded by, and ensconced in?

Is our origin our mothers womb... or does our origin actually lie in the Eternal, apart from illusory, "Space/Time"?

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"Here there is no man, there is no woman, No self, no person, and no consciousness. Labeling 'male' or 'female' has no essence, But deceives the evil-minded world." ~ Buddhist Teaching

Edited by Holographic60
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I'm pretty sure the world isn't entirely as we perceive it to be. Which I think is pretty darn cool, as there's a lot to be learned and discovered. Maybe essence is as essence does, you know, because I'm not sure that defining one's or anyone's essence would be very helpful, even if anyone can do it. Do you think maybe essence reveals itself through daily actions in the material world?

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What is "real" ?

Is there a greater reality that is invisible to us, then? Which this world of time and space is surrounded by, and ensconced in?

Is our origin our mothers womb... or does our origin actually lie in the Eternal, apart from illusory, "Space/Time"?

I think that human beings are limited in their ability to process Reality. You may try to teach philosophy to a dolphin or an elephant, I strongly doubt you'll ever be succesful. These species have limited cognitive abilities, evolution did not allow them to grasp as much as we do (which might still be very little..) There is really no reason for me to believe that human beings are fully aware of the Ultimate Reality. One may catch a glimpse, like a lightning bolt in the obscurity but we are largely ignorant and wondering What It's All About. There could as well be a great deal more to this Reality, a whole realm of possiblities that we simply cannot perceive. We can only try to keep pushing forward, unraveling as much mysteries as we can but in the end we may be like fishes in an aquarium.

This is a short video by physicist Brian Greene, which I find very interesting:

Will Human Ever Fully Understand Reality

http://www.worldscie...rstand-reality/

Edited by samus
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Who am I in truth?

It's got diddley squat to do with your self confining OP.

I agree to disagree.

Edited by Likely Guy
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I think our brain creates our perception of reality based upon our limited senses that percieve the external world. Our reality is our perception of our physical environment. Of course, then our mind interprets these perceptions in various ways, intellectually, emotionally, etc.

In this sense, the mind only perceives itself. The external environment only exists within our consciousness. So, in a way, there is no external environment, only internal environment, an internal reality which the mind creates for itself.

There is a reality 'out there', but our perception of it is a creation of the mind. What would consciousness be like if there were no perceptions of the external environment from the very beginning? Would mind or consciousness exist at all? What then would be Reality or Truth?

If mind/consciousness and what we consider reality or who we are in essence is a manifestation of external environment, I would say 'who we are in essence' or 'who we are in Truth' is nonexistant.

If we peel off the layers of experience, memory and thought, what we ultimately discover is emptiness. This is a tenet of Buddhism: "empty and marvelous". This is our true nature and the fundamental core of our being. Reality is now perception without a perceiver.

I think this is as close as we can get to a sense of Reality and a sense of who we are.

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I'm not certain of anything, of myself or the world, and I'm okay with that.

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Since Einsten, science has been revealing to us, (to those that pay attention), that the material world, and everything we sense and percieve about it, is illusory.

That space and time are interpretations of our organic aspect, and brain.

And this is in the book you're trying to sell us? Because Einstein sure as hell didn't reveal this. Edited by Rlyeh
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Since Einsten, science has been revealing to us, (to those that pay attention), that the material world, and everything we sense and percieve about it, is illusory.

That space and time are interpretations of our organic aspect, and brain.

Your first and second sentences are inconsistent.

That something is interpreted does not make it 'illusory' - and it is a misrepresentation of science to suggest that modern discoveries in physics are leading to the understanding that reality is an 'illusion'.

This misrepresentation is at the heart of the flawed comparison of modern science with esoteric, or mystic belief systems such as Eastern mysticism. There is no 'common ground' between such disparate things and it is only the attempt to grant mystic beliefs a vestige of the credibility modern science has that causes such comparisons.

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And this is in the book you're trying to sell us? Because Einstein sure as hell didn't reveal this.

I think he is refering to the Holographic Principle put forward by Gerard t' Hooft and susbsequently improved by Leonard Susskind. This is still very much an active area of research in theoritical physics. If proven correct, one of the implication is that our 3D world is but an approximate ''illusion''. The Universe we are experiencing would actually be the result of processes happening on a 2D surface, the fundamental reality. While 'illusion' may not be the best of word, it is not completely wrong. An hologram is an image that only looks three-dimensional.

Einstein sure didn't revealed this, but he did revealed General Relativity, which lead to Hawkins' equation on black holes and then to the Holographic Principle..

Edited by samus
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I'm not certain of anything, of myself or the world, and I'm okay with that.

I have to agree with this. If you want certainty, there are lots of people trying to peddle it. It doesn't mean that they have found "truth."

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I have to agree with this. If you want certainty, there are lots of people trying to peddle it. It doesn't mean that they have found "truth."

To be fair, most people discussing metaphysics are not looking for certainties. These questions are just so fascinating though, there is just so many perspectives that one can really expend his take on the world, adding depth his view of existence and reality by becoming aware off all those ideas and theories, may they be ancient or new.

Edited by samus
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To be fair, most people discussing metaphysics are not looking for certainties. These questions are just so fascinating though, there is just so many perspectives that one can really expend his take on the world, adding depth to view of existence by reading and learning about these ideas and theories.

With statements like "God is Truth, Who are You?" someone clearly shows that they think they have found the "truth" that the rest of us are somehow lacking.

That said, I think ideas about a holographic universe are fun (although certainly unproven), and tend to encourage people to not take themselves quite so seriously.

Edited by ChaosRose
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With statements like "God is Truth, Who are You?" someone clearly shows that they think they have found the "truth" that the rest of us are somehow lacking.

Ok sorry, I see what you mean now. I'd missed the subtitle of the thread. That aside, based on what the OP wrote in his introduction, he clearly doesn't seem sure of anything. ;)

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Your first and second sentences are inconsistent.

That something is interpreted does not make it 'illusory' - and it is a misrepresentation of science to suggest that modern discoveries in physics are leading to the understanding that reality is an 'illusion'.

This misrepresentation is at the heart of the flawed comparison of modern science with esoteric, or mystic belief systems such as Eastern mysticism. There is no 'common ground' between such disparate things and it is only the attempt to grant mystic beliefs a vestige of the credibility modern science has that causes such comparisons.

Well, thanx for your opinion.

Meanwhile perhaps we can attend to the revelations ongoing, since Einstein in modern physics theory.

Rlyeh -

"And this is in the book you're trying to sell us? Because Einstein sure as hell didn't reveal this."

"Time and space are modes by which we think and not conditions in which we live." - Albert Einstein

"Science thus brings us to the threshold of the ego and there leaves us to ourselves".--Max Planck

Professor of Physics Michio Kaku tells us how our universe is but one bubble among many in what is referred to as "Hyperspacial Foam" (Like the bubbles in the foam on a head of beer.)

Hyperspace is the state apart from time.

Julian Barbour has written a book, though Rlyeh, it's titled,

"The End of Time".

...String theories, "Hyperspace"... the underlying foundation of what we call "The World", and the "Universe".

Essentially material reality, including us who reside within?

Quantum Physics supports the teaching that reality is "Maya", an illusion,and what is out there is a symphony of wave forms, a "frequency domain" transformed into the world as we know it only after it enters into our senses.

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Well, thanx for your opinion.

Meanwhile perhaps we can attend to the revelations ongoing, since Einstein in modern physics theory.

What 'revelations'?

And please do not post philosophical quotes as evidence for your belief in the 'illusion of reality', because philosophy is not science.

There have been no 'revelations' in science which suggest the objective reality of the universe is an illusion. What we have discovered is that we cannot state with 100% certainty what that reality is (i.e. what fundamentally comprises 'reality'), but that is very different to suggesting it is an 'illusion'.

And that is fact, not opinion. The quotes you posted previously from notable scientists are opinion.

Quantum Physics supports the teaching that reality is "Maya", an illusion,and what is out there is a symphony of wave forms, a "frequency domain" transformed into the world as we know it only after it enters into our senses.

No, it doesn't. The fundamental concept underpinning Quantum Mechanics is uncertainty, not 'illusion'.

It's fine if you want to hold a metaphysical belief that reality is an illusion, just don't presume that science supports that belief in any way - because it doesn't.

Edited by Leonardo
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The Druids had a good saying.

A person is three things.

1 who they think they are

2 who others think they are

3 who they are

recently heard this somewhat related but non-druidic saying on death.

A person experiences three deaths.

1 the death of the body

2 the consignment of the body to the grave

3 the last time their name is spoken

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Just because quantum physics is weird and doesn't jive with the world we as we perceive doesn't make the greater Universe illusionary. I have read books on the holographic universe hypothesis and the more I learn about physics the more I think it isn't what is going on. I do have my own goofy ideas on what may be going on. I think key is some how related to life and a living systems, but I don't really know and don't know physics well enough to write a paper. Life is real and the universe is real. If you don't think it is, look away, then hit yourself with a hammer and see if it doesn't feel real some how.

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I am that I am, I am who I think I am, but not who I think I am. I am not my name, I am not my body, I simple am. A spirit wrapped in flesh, maybe. A more sentient ape, possibly. What I have been is gone, who I will be has not happened. I am forever changing. My face. my thoughts, my feelings never the same. Always flowing on a finite stream of infinite possibilities.

Edited by XenoFish
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I think the fundamental reality of the universe is quite different than what we experience. As counter-intuitive as quantum mechanics is, what lies below QM, or what manifests QM, is a level of reality that is even stranger still. I don't know what it is, of course, but I think hints of its probable bizarre-ness can be gleaned from studying the more esoteric cosmological theories.

As to who you are in truth, as I said before, the only way to discover this is to peel away all the layers of assimilated patterns of experience and see what is left. I would speculate pure conscious awareness. This is not enough for most of us, I think, so we feel we must add 'extras' to this fundamental state. Add layers of thought or conceptions that make us feel we are 'somebody'.

I think this 'somebody' that thought creates as self-image is the root of many of our problems in life.

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I think he is refering to the Holographic Principle put forward by Gerard t' Hooft and susbsequently improved by Leonard Susskind. This is still very much an active area of research in theoritical physics. If proven correct, one of the implication is that our 3D world is but an approximate ''illusion''. The Universe we are experiencing would actually be the result of processes happening on a 2D surface, the fundamental reality. While 'illusion' may not be the best of word, it is not completely wrong. An hologram is an image that only looks three-dimensional.

I don't think he is, the holographic principle doesn't make space appear 3D just because our brains tells us so. This 3D "illusion" affects much more than just us.

The holographic principle proposes the universe is projected from a surface, it is the surface making things appear and act 3D, not our brains, rather our organic brains are also part of the projection

Edited by Rlyeh
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"Time and space are modes by which we think and not conditions in which we live." - Albert Einstein

"Science thus brings us to the threshold of the ego and there leaves us to ourselves".--Max Planck

Professor of Physics Michio Kaku tells us how our universe is but one bubble among many in what is referred to as "Hyperspacial Foam" (Like the bubbles in the foam on a head of beer.)

Hyperspace is the state apart from time.

And not one of these support your original claim, that our brain creates the illusion of space and matter.

BTW Einstein said "I like to think that the moon is there even if I am not looking at it."

...String theories, "Hyperspace"... the underlying foundation of what we call "The World", and the "Universe".

Essentially material reality, including us who reside within?

This is more support for material reality being independently of the brain. String theory and it's variants have material/energy making up the universe at it's lowest levels. Edited by Rlyeh
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The physicist Julian Barbour's idea is that the universe is static. Time does not exist. Each moment or each 'now' is like a photograph. In the photo nothing changes. Take 100 photos of your trip to Disneyland and spread them out on a table. Even though each photo may show change, all the photos themselves are changeless.

Take a photo of all the photographs on the table, and this is what the universe would look like from 'outside' the universe. Many unchanging, static 'now's'.

He quotes the physicist Paul Dirac as saying, "I am inclined to believe that four-dimensional symmetry is not a fundamental property of the physical world". So, space and time may not be true properties of Reality. As I said above somewhere, Reality at its most fundamental level may be something completely foreign to the way the human brain/mind experiences it.

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The physicist Julian Barbour's idea is that the universe is static. Time does not exist. Each moment or each 'now' is like a photograph. In the photo nothing changes. Take 100 photos of your trip to Disneyland and spread them out on a table. Even though each photo may show change, all the photos themselves are changeless.

Take a photo of all the photographs on the table, and this is what the universe would look like from 'outside' the universe. Many unchanging, static 'now's'.

He quotes the physicist Paul Dirac as saying, "I am inclined to believe that four-dimensional symmetry is not a fundamental property of the physical world". So, space and time may not be true properties of Reality. As I said above somewhere, Reality at its most fundamental level may be something completely foreign to the way the human brain/mind experiences it.

I'm glad you are aware of Barbour's work, "The End of Time", Star.

So, for illustration, he used flash picture cards, and there is the representitive situation of "Platonia", which is a backdrop grid to represent what is really going on. Similar to lines on a map, and involving location?

Which to me infers, though, that while there are branches leading out from the main path on this grid, that we are in a preset, predetermined situation.

Following along the preset path.

Addressing the issue also of, "free will"? (BTW, liking that quote in your profile about the Lottery!)

Rlyeh, "Reality is an illusion, albeit a very persistant one". - AL

How much more pointed can you get?

( LEONARDO? - Ditto. )

Here is the question to ponder. What is the true underlying foundation of solid Matter? We've boiled it down to "Frequencies", no?

"Vibration", "Resonance"... involving String Theory.

So, with respect to the actual situation and a greater reality, do we have our origin "here", in the material world?

Speaking of our essential self.

Is LIFE then, also, limited to this dense material frequency realm in which we find oursleves?

Edited by Holographic60
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( LEONARDO? - Ditto. )

Here is the question to ponder. What is the true underlying foundation of solid Matter? We've boiled it down to "Frequencies", no?

"Vibration", "Resonance"... involving String Theory.

So, with respect to the actual situation and a greater reality, do we have our origin "here", in the material world?

Speaking of our essential self.

Is LIFE then, also, limited to this dense material frequency realm in which we find oursleves?

Not quite. In the various incarnations of 'string theory' the tiny strings are 'real' objects, and the frequency or amplitude of their vibration only relates to what 'particle' the string corresponds to. So, it would be misleading to represent any version of string theory as suggesting the material universe is fundamentally 'vibration'.

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Well, thanks again for chiming in with your opinion, Leonardo. You haven't addressed it...

The questions still stands. Have an opinion on that?

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