260 replies to this topic

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

keninsc, on 30 December 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

The only thing classified about them is that most of them are covers for secret US experimental stuff. You care to guess how many people saw a B2 or the F117 and got all freaked out and called them UFO's.. Yeah, secret, right. The only thing secret about them is the misinformation being disseminated by the government to keep using the cover. Secret? Hmpt! Secret, my old shriveled up ass. You haven't figured out it a game the government play to keep stuff secret and you UFO types swallow it hook line and sinker every freaking time. Then the boys of Uncle Sam go back to doing real work.

Wake up and smell the coffee, you guys are being played.....played like a cheap fiddle.

Well, this has beend discussed to death many times, but while there may well have been sightings of the SR-71, at any rate, that the CIA and co. were happy to let people describe as "UFOs", these were all very distant, fleeting sightings, of something moving very quickly and/or at very high altitude. I really don't think it's an adequate explanation for sightings of things flying much lower and much more slowly, even less of things hovering silently and things like that, and shining beams of light on the ground, and above all not over populated areas. If they were Secret a rcraft of the U.S. Government, why would they be doing these things?

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

DingoLingo, on 31 December 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

Oh I agree.. UFO's do exist.. but they are not alien

Really? An assertion every bit as bold as the claim that, say, ETs built Macchu Picchu. I don't think there's anywhere near enough evidence to be able to conclude that; if you do, they you're going to have to come up with a convincing alternative explanation, and I'm afraid that until someone can come up with a plausible reason as to, if they are secret craft and devices developed by (presumably) the U.S. Government, what they can be using them for, and why, in using them for this purpose, they seem to quite happily disregard all the laws of flight safety.

[Sky Scanner]

There's some good exchanges on this thread, however, it was starting to get a bit personal with a few people, lets not go down that route and ruin the thread.

[DingoLingo]

747400, on 31 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Well, this has beend discussed to death many times, but while there may well have been sightings of the SR-71, at any rate, that the CIA and co. were happy to let people describe as "UFOs", these were all very distant, fleeting sightings, of something moving very quickly and/or at very high altitude. I really don't think it's an adequate explanation for sightings of things flying much lower and much more slowly, even less of things hovering silently and things like that, and shining beams of light on the ground, and above all not over populated areas. If they were Secret a rcraft of the U.S. Government, why would they be doing these things?

Why not? it would be the perfect way to test something they want to be kept secret..

the whole UFO cover .. and bingo.. instant redirection of the questions..

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

DingoLingo, on 31 December 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

I honestly believe it is military tech.. not alien..

remember the stories of the flying black triangle..

and look what made a appearance during the invasion of iraq and afganistan..

Hello Stealth Bomber .. how triangle shaped you are..

  The B-2 was announced publicly before it first flew, in 1989, and the development of the F-117 is now well documented. If the prototypes of that are now known publicly, why would any development proitptypes for the B-2 still be secret after more than 20 years? That seems irrational. Besides, it's not triangle shaped particularly. Looks more sort of booemrang shaped. No convincing reports of genuine pure triangle shaped aircraft that may have been evaluated by the U.s Government have ever been revealed publicly. (Apart perhaps from Have Blue, the prototype of the F-117.) And why (I keep asking it in the hope that one day someone might offer some plasuible suggestions) would they fly them at low altitude over populated areas, shining lights on the ground?

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

DingoLingo, on 31 December 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Why not? it would be the perfect way to test something they want to be kept secret..

the whole UFO cover .. and bingo.. instant redirection of the questions..

The word "Secret" is significant, might one not think? Flying them over populated areas at low altitude, shining lights on the ground, seems very foolish if one was concerned about keeping them secret. If this is what they're intended for, if flying over populated areas at low altitude, shining lights on the ground, is actually what they're intended to be used for, then I really think someone ought to be asking what they're doing and why, and not just saying "Well, they're obviously Secret aircraft, no mystery there", since it still seems every bit as much a mystery.

[DingoLingo]

747400, on 31 December 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

The word "Secret" is significant, might one not think? Flying them over populated areas at low altitude, shining lights on the ground, seems very foolish if one was concerned about keeping them secret. If this is what they're intended for, if flying over populated areas at low altitude, shining lights on the ground, is actually what they're intended to be used for, then I really think someone ought to be asking what they're doing and why, and not just saying "Well, they're obviously Secret aircraft, no mystery there", since it still seems every bit as much a mystery.

ok if you think about it..

You've created this craft.. that is for urban recon etc.. thing is you dont want other nations to know it.. so how to test it..

Do it in a public place.. make it look like a ufo event..

Say you have no aircraft in the area.. deny it all.. and here you go.. UFO nuts jump on the band wagon.. Strange hovering lights seen above blah blah blah town..

you've successfully tested your craft.. right in front of joe public.. who does not think it can be man made..

Secret is safe.. cover story is done without you having to do anything at all..

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

DingoLingo, on 31 December 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

ok if you think about it..

You've created this craft.. that is for urban recon etc.. thing is you dont want other nations to know it.. so how to test it..

Do it in a public place.. make it look like a ufo event..

Say you have no aircraft in the area.. deny it all.. and here you go.. UFO nuts jump on the band wagon.. Strange hovering lights seen above blah blah blah town..

you've successfully tested your craft.. right in front of joe public.. who does not think it can be man made..

Secret is safe.. cover story is done without you having to do anything at all..

You test it, clandestinely. There are excercise areas all over the States, with the ability to reconstruct any scenario you might want. Ther's absolutely no need to risk exposing your technology to being revealed to Unfriendly nations by trying it out over your own towns & cities. Suppose that one was to develop a fault and come down in a populated area? That would be embarassing. That's why planes have minimum altitudes and prescribed routes laid down when flying over inhabitated areas. The only reason for doing that would be if that was what you were using them for, surveillance of the Population; and even then, there are much more discreet ways to do it (satellites, small high-flying Drones and so on). No need to loiter low over cities with great big anti-grav craft lit up like Festive Seasonal Trees, shining lights on the ground. That is not clandestine.

[TheOtherSide1945]

so if it is indeed military prototypes etc that we are all seeing then where did that tech come from? well most of the military technology that the states has been using now is what the nazis were trying to accomplish. i dont think i need to repeat what operation paperclip was. i think everyone on this thread has heard of it. so if this tech we are seeing today has been based on the work back in the 40's, 50's, and 60's, made by german scientists working for the idustrial military complex(yes nasa is part of it). then where did all this tech come from?

The great German space pioneer Hermann Oberth said, "We cannot take credit for our record advancement in certain scientific fields alone; we have been helped." When asked who helped, he said: "The people of other worlds." (Robin Collyns, *Did Spacemen Colonize the Earth?* London: Pelham Books, 1974, p. 236.)

(in *News Europa,* Jan. 1, 1959), von Braun states this about extraterrestrials in an interview: "We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose base of operations is at present unknown to us" (when asked about the deflection of a U.S. satellite). "More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into a closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months' time it may be possible to speak with more precision on the matter."

Now we can say that they are part of the cover-up and were told to say these things. but there is still the fact that the Nazi's were obsessed with astronomy, the occult, and yes apperently ALIENS. they even had mediums that were claiming to be in contact with aliens. the first founders of the Nazi party thought they were in contact with aliens through these mediums and had their version of the freemasons, the Vril Society. they were the original founders of the Nazi Party, the money behind it. this part of history is not taught in schools. now im not saying the mediums were in contact with aliens. but you have to admit that there is something to Nazis and ufo tech. i know that UFO's exist. manmade or not we are being told all lies about UFOs anyways. Also those who win the war can re-right history to what they see.

i dont know. you cant trust nothing. like i said it could be all a lie and a set up to hind how advanced the industrial military complex is, that is a possibility, however, it is possible it is true. the only people who could tell the truth are all dead. hell, two of the biggest Nazi ufo conspiracy names(Kammler and Borman) disapeared after the war so we will never know the truth. did they fly away in a saucer to Serius? probly not. but, it is a possibility.

if the Nazis had bases on the moon and antarctica with ufo fleets i think they would have attacked isreal already. just to say that about the whole antarctica and moon nazis. it would make a very good scifi... wait it was made, could have been done serious though.

[JimOberg]

TheOtherSide1945, on 31 December 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

this happened in late september 2000, around 9 at night. I seen it in Ponoka, in central Alberta. it came in from the North West and flew to the east, going a bit faster than an airliner. I am trying to find any articles on the net. i know the kids at school(i was in grade 9) said they talked about it on the local news in the morning, but i never watched the news before school. one girl was saying that her radio went fuzzy when it went over. What I seen that night has forever changed my life. I know quite abit about fighter jets. i was big into military aircraft and had been to a few good shows before this happened I know it was too big to be any aircraft, B-52's, 747's, even the Globemaster(which i have seen fly over when the americans are training in cold lake afb), they all were way too small to have been the lights. if it wasnt for the size of the thing i would have thought it was just an illusion of a meteor and a jet flying under it. but it wasn't, the lights came out of the meteor. no sound during any of this.

Thanks, that will allow me to check a few possible candidates.

Your account is so detailed, and so complete, that it provides enough data to either 'fit' it to several classic types of phenomena, or to establish that it does NOT fit, and enhance its extraordinariness. Either way, your contribution here has been very valuable.

Do you want to start a thread dedicated to the event, and cut-and-paste your earlier comments at the beginning? This sure looks like it deserves it.

Your description does call to mind similar accounts from around the world, for fifty years or more, of fireball swarms, usually caused by horizontally reentering satellites, most often spent booster stages. The best documented event of this type was over Ukraine in 1963, and I have a link to the Russian study that contains dozens of witness drawings, some showing a flock of fireballs and others connecting the lights into a large structured object. It's on my home page -- URL
http://www.jamesober...0-1963_kiev.pdf



Again, kudos for bringing this high-quality anomaly report to this group's attention.

Edited by JimOberg, 31 December 2012 - 02:37 PM.

[JimOberg]

TheOtherSide1945, on 31 December 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

...
(in *News Europa,* Jan. 1, 1959), von Braun states this about extraterrestrials in an interview: "We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose base of operations is at present unknown to us" (when asked about the deflection of a U.S. satellite). "More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into a closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months' time it may be possible to speak with more precision on the matter."
....

Thanks for bringing up this von Braun story. Astonishingly, McClelland himself puts exactly the SAME story on his website and alleges that von Braun told it directly to HIM during a secret conversation. Check and see how similar even the wording was.

Fortunately, I was able to ask a German friend to check out the 'News Europa' citation to see if it was authentic. Nobody else in the whole world of uforia seems to have bothered -- or if they did, they decided to cover up their findings, and with good reason.

[Archimedes]

bee, on 18 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

Peter Lindemann is no slouch.....

http://peswiki.com/e...demann#ARTICLES

Wow.  Impressive.

3 articles from 1994, 1995 and 2001.

None of which even exist anymore because the links are all to a website that no longer exists.  So we can't even read it to tell if it's genuine scholarship or the kind of pseudo-scientific gibberish he speaks in the YouTube video.

Is that all it takes bee, to convince you that someone is "no slouch", 3 dead links to articles you can't even read because the website they're on no longer exists?

I found this on another website - "In the Spring of 1999, Peter was nominated by the late Dr. Robert Adams of New Zealand for a Doctorate degree to the Board of Governors of the Open International University of Alternative Medicine in Colombo, Sri Lanka. After a 9 month review of past experience and published work, he was granted a Doctorate of Science degree (honorus causa) in Complimentary Medicine, based on his previous life work." http://www.free-ener...-lindemann.html

Another crank calling himself "Doctor" because it sounds impressive, when all he has is a piece of paper from a non-accredited diploma mill.  Apparently having a non-accredited doctorate in alternative medicine allows you to speak authoratively on how electromagnetic energy functions in ways that are entirely inconsistent with the way it actually works.

Is there ANY reason not to write this guy off as an absolute quack?

edit: I utterly despise how this web forum insists on copying and pasting the format of the source of text you want to quote.  Every damn post I make I have to go back in and edit to fix the screwed up formatting.

Edited by Archimedes, 31 December 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[JimOberg]

Archimedes, on 31 December 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Wow.  Impressive.[/size]

3 articles from 1994, 1995 and 2001.

None of which even exist anymore because the links are all to a website that no longer exists.  So we can't even read it to tell if it's genuine scholarship or the kind of pseudo-scientific gibberish he speaks in the YouTube video.

Is that all it takes bee, to convince you that someone is "no slouch", 3 dead links to articles you can't even read because the website they're on no longer exists?  

Have you tried 'wayback machine'?

[Archimedes]

No, but I found a newer version of his website.  It was taken down from www.free-energy.cc and rehosted at www.free-energy.ws

And it's just a run of the mill crank website.  Looks like his 12 year old nephew made it for him.  Note to cranks: you might get taken more seriously if you all didn't have such ugly amateurish websites.

He calls himself "Doctor" based upon the fact that he was awarded a "doctorate in complimentary medicine" by a non-accredited alternative medicine Sri Lankan diploma mill.

I started reading one of his "articles" that bee reckons makes him "no slouch".  Bad science, conspiracy theories about why free energy projects never see the light of day and trying to discredit well established and well demonstrated principles of physics by insisting they are merely "assumptions".  

He's like a stereotype of the pseudo-scientific crank.

It's no surprise then the utter quackery and nonsense he was spouting in the video bee posted.  He hasn't a clue.

Edited by Archimedes, 31 December 2012 - 06:38 PM.

[Hawkin]

DingoLingo, on 31 December 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

heh this gives me something to do on my days off

Honestly.. I believe in UFO's.. 100%.. I just do not believe that they are alien..

I do think the military is conducting flights on secret craft and they are mistaken as alien.
The SR71 and U2 was 2 craft that were mistaken identity back in the 50's & 60s.
However the disk shape craft has been seen in the skys back in the 40's flying at great
speeds and I don't think we had that technology back then. Pilots in WWII would report
these objects flying with their plane as if they were being observed.