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The Hidden Empire

the octopus illuminati iran contra satan in washington

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#16    prometheuslocke

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:58 PM

View PostFrom 16 March 2013 - 01:01 PM:

True, dat.  A very well written analysis of the situation.  The reference to gas prices seems irrelevant to me.

Merely pointing out that greed is what is driving American foreign policy, and that the primary beneficiaries are private oil companies, and their major stock holders... like the Bush family.

Edited by prometheuslocke, 16 March 2013 - 08:59 PM.


#17    prometheuslocke

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 16 March 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

How can anyone think there is a conspiracy to destroy "liberty" in the States when people can post slanderous paranoia like that against their government without even a glance over their shoulder.  There are countries (Malaysia and Singapore immediately come to mind) where that sort of stuff would get you a month in jail.

The illusion of freedom is not freedom.


#18    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:22 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 16 March 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

How can anyone think there is a conspiracy to destroy "liberty" in the States when people can post slanderous paranoia like that against their government without even a glance over their shoulder.  There are countries (Malaysia and Singapore immediately come to mind) where that sort of stuff would get you a month in jail.

We have a great First Amendment. We indeed have more free speech than many other countries in the world, and some of our free speech is relegated to zones. I'm somewhat kidding, but you and others likely know what I mean. You make a valid point, and your comment brings some people to mind. Some Americans tell other Americans to never complain or question because other countries have it much worse than we do. Well, that's true, and I'm very thankful for the freedoms we do have, and I'm very grateful to the military who keeps us free. However, some individuals need to recognize the fact that citizens have the right to criticize policies, as well as decisions, that are damaging to the cause of liberty. If your neighbor has cancer, you're under no obligation to ignore your child's diabetes.

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#19    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:45 AM

There can be no such thing as unlimited freedom.  Even speech must be regulated -- there are laws against slander and child pornography and stimulating a riot and creating a public nuisance.  I read the Bill of Rights and am puzzled by the broad sweep it provides, only here and there nodding to the idea that there might be an occasional exception.  It seems obvious that the framers understood the limits and assumed the population would be intelligent enough to read it that way as well.  But say someone in the name of religion decides to commit a baby to the flames, and I can imagine how fast freedom of religion would disappear.

That the government has a terrorism problem is obvious; that steps to protect the public are not only needed but also demanded by the vast majority is also obvious.  What I see is some limits being imposed on freedom to achieve this.  It's a touch-and-go balance; miscarriages of justice will happen and a lot of people will be spied on and inconvenienced.


#20    awest

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:16 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 March 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

There can be no such thing as unlimited freedom.  Even speech must be regulated -- there are laws against slander and child pornography and stimulating a riot and creating a public nuisance.  I read the Bill of Rights and am puzzled by the broad sweep it provides, only here and there nodding to the idea that there might be an occasional exception.  It seems obvious that the framers understood the limits and assumed the population would be intelligent enough to read it that way as well.  But say someone in the name of religion decides to commit a baby to the flames, and I can imagine how fast freedom of religion would disappear.

That the government has a terrorism problem is obvious; that steps to protect the public are not only needed but also demanded by the vast majority is also obvious.  What I see is some limits being imposed on freedom to achieve this.  It's a touch-and-go balance; miscarriages of justice will happen and a lot of people will be spied on and inconvenienced.

All but one of the terrorist attack attempts that were stopped by the FBI since 9/11 in the US were also created by the FBI. The one that wasn't happened in New York and he was busted by a citizen. There is no need for many of the laws that have been passed, in reality it only opens up an invasion of privacy into the daily lives of millions of law abiding citizens as well as potential abuse of powers granted.


#21    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:33 AM

View Postawest, on 17 March 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

All but one of the terrorist attack attempts that were stopped by the FBI since 9/11 in the US were also created by the FBI. The one that wasn't happened in New York and he was busted by a citizen. There is no need for many of the laws that have been passed, in reality it only opens up an invasion of privacy into the daily lives of millions of law abiding citizens as well as potential abuse of powers granted.
You make extreme assertions that are, shall we say, hard, to believe.


#22    awest

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:23 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 March 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

You make extreme assertions that are, shall we say, hard, to believe.

In what way? As far as the terrorist plots being of FBI origins? http://www.businessi...or-plots-2013-3 Or perhaps you don't believe the government would ever take advantage of broad sweeping powers? If you believe that you are simply naive.

Edited by awest, 17 March 2013 - 09:26 AM.


#23    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:03 AM

I have an instinct for when to believe stuff like that and when to assign it to the disregard bin.  You can call that naive if you like, but then I tend to look at it as sanity.


#24    prometheuslocke

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:44 PM

View Postawest, on 17 March 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

In what way? As far as the terrorist plots being of FBI origins? http://www.businessi...or-plots-2013-3 Or perhaps you don't believe the government would ever take advantage of broad sweeping powers? If you believe that you are simply naive.

Please draw arrows towards the link, and surrounding with flashing lights.

The First Amendment is more than free speech, its also freedom to assemble.  I'm not sure if anyone has been paying attention, but protesters have been arrested numerous times in DC and NYC in the past few months.  The Occupy movement, almost in totality, has been shut down with COINTELPRO tactics that we haven't seen being used this obviously since the seventies (where they were used numerous times by this same government).  I wouldn't have noticed, but I tried to go to a General Assembly meeting (for the first time) a few months ago.  These are their monthly meetings where everyone goes to say hi, meeting for an hour or two in a public park.  Most cities have them.

Guess how people were there?  One.

Try googling "protester arrested," you will (or should) be shocked.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1365193.html
http://washington.cb...peline-protest/
http://news.national...lsands-protest/
http://www.lifenews....esting-mandate/

This is not my America.

Edited by prometheuslocke, 17 March 2013 - 09:48 PM.


#25    awest

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:12 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 March 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

I have an instinct for when to believe stuff like that and when to assign it to the disregard bin.  You can call that naive if you like, but then I tend to look at it as sanity.

Well sir you are certainly welcome to your own opinion; however, keep in mind the anti protest bill, also known as H.R. 347, which specifically makes it a felony to protest anywhere there might be secret service agents. Also keep in mind they legalized the appropriation of money to be spent on propaganda as well as legalizing its use on the American people. All in all those have zilch to do with terrorism, just as most of the other nonsense passed in the last 10 years. This was in the NDAA if you care to read for yourself if perhaps you don't trust the 100's of news sites online. And for anyone that thinks there is a difference between their two ideological parties, this bill passed with almost 100% bipartisan support as well as the H.R. 347 which got only 3 nay votes.


#26    AsteroidX

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:45 PM

I simply say the BOR has been gutted. And I should be angry.


#27    Babe Ruth

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:06 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 March 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

You make extreme assertions that are, shall we say, hard, to believe.

Perhaps you have been gone too long from these United States?

What would have been extreme assertions 30 years ago are today normal operating procedures for the US Government.

Padilla was treated exactly in accordance with those extreme assertions, and few people even complained.  Those complaining were called communist sympathizers, or more likely, muslim sympathizers or 'terrists' in Dubya parlance.


#28    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:38 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 March 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

There can be no such thing as unlimited freedom.  Even speech must be regulated -- there are laws against slander and child pornography and stimulating a riot and creating a public nuisance.  I read the Bill of Rights and am puzzled by the broad sweep it provides, only here and there nodding to the idea that there might be an occasional exception.  It seems obvious that the framers understood the limits and assumed the population would be intelligent enough to read it that way as well.  But say someone in the name of religion decides to commit a baby to the flames, and I can imagine how fast freedom of religion would disappear.

That the government has a terrorism problem is obvious; that steps to protect the public are not only needed but also demanded by the vast majority is also obvious.  What I see is some limits being imposed on freedom to achieve this.  It's a touch-and-go balance; miscarriages of justice will happen and a lot of people will be spied on and inconvenienced.

We indeed have libel and slander laws. Child pornography is a heinous crime. You can't yell, "fire", in a crowded theatre. Most Americans support those laws. There's a difference between anarchy and libertarianism. Our government is infatuated with statism. Some of their new policies aren't constitutional, and these encroachments on our rights are concerning to libertarians. BTW, your example of sacrifice already is illegal, and such an act would not change the First Amendment at all.

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#29    Jinxdom

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:37 AM

it is an easy fix but a hard one. We need to get the right people in to the right places. If they can't do it themselves, then help get somebody else who will push the right things through. Once you get the right person in, the rest of the changes will follow.
Might want to make sure it's somebody who isn't afraid to get killed as well.

I do think one change that needs to happen is the way the President gets in office needs to change. No term limits for it, but vote every 4 years to see if he stays in office. If the President is outed then we go on with the normal routine. No bull trying to get somebody impeached through the court system but by a vote from the people.  The good stay in the bad get tossed out.

I cannot say for sure that what is happening by just plain stupidity or by some super conspiracy..... all I know is that it needs to change.





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