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why is homophobia commonplace?


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#181    OverSword

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 06:56 PM

Now I have a question.  Based on my post above about same sex dominance display by animals, should I be labled  a homophobe?


#182    GreenmansGod

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:02 PM

View PostOverSword, on 05 March 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Use that reference while writing a paper on the subject and be shot down hard. Anybody can post anything they want on wikipedia.  Among animals other than humans it is not sex, it is a show of dominance.  Dolphins do not take turns being on top if you get my drift. There is one dominant and one submissive, typical in a pack, pod or flock of any animals.

As I understand sex, it involves erect phaluses, penetration, and ejaculation, none of which happens during animals displays of same sex humping.  Animals do not have sex for enjoyment or recreation they have it for reproduction, an impossibility between same sex species.  It is poor science to read human motivations and sentiments into animal behaviour.

edit to add I've observed many many times two of my male dogs while I was a kid exhibiting this behaviour.  No sex ever took place, and it was always the larger dominant dog on top, so how is that homosexual?  It was a dominance display. nothing more.

How about this one.
http://www.livescien...ommon-wild.html
or
http://www.news-medi...0/23/20718.aspx

Got news for you, humans are an animal. We are a species of hominid, which is a type of ape.

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#183    OverSword

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:13 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 05 March 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

How about this one.
http://www.livescien...ommon-wild.html
or
http://www.news-medi...0/23/20718.aspx

Got news for you, humans are an animal. We are a species of hominid, which is a type of ape.
As soon as I see actual animal sex involving two males, with all that sex entails ie; penetration, erections, ejaculation, I'll believe it.  As I stated I've seen same sex humping to establish dominance among animals many many times.  It's not really sex and does not indicate a preference by the animal towards homosexuality.  As I said its poor science to read human motivations into animal behaviour and I absolutely don't buy the quacks that say otherwise.

And yes I'm aware we are a type of ape.

edit to add there is no reason anyone should be offended by these statements, I also don't believe that animals have the same motivation for intercourse that I do 99% of the time that I'm trying to get some from a female.

Edited by OverSword, 05 March 2013 - 08:16 PM.


#184    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:35 PM

View PostOverSword, on 05 March 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

As soon as I see actual animal sex involving two males, with all that sex entails ie; penetration, erections, ejaculation, I'll believe it.  As I stated I've seen same sex humping to establish dominance among animals many many times.  It's not really sex and does not indicate a preference by the animal towards homosexuality.  As I said its poor science to read human motivations into animal behaviour and I absolutely don't buy the quacks that say otherwise.

And yes I'm aware we are a type of ape.

edit to add there is no reason anyone should be offended by these statements, I also don't believe that animals have the same motivation for intercourse that I do 99% of the time that I'm trying to get some from a female.

Humans are one of the very few species who have sex for pleasure.


#185    Everdred

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:35 PM

Fun fact: anyone who throws around the term "bigot" to discredit a person or idea is simply incapable of providing a cognizant argument.

With that out of the way, I'll address the subject at hand.

Homosexuality itself is obviously natural (the evidence seems to suggest it is caused by particular conditions in the prenatal environment).  But homosexuality is different than homoeroticism.  The former is an orientation while the latter is simply engaging in sexual acts with a member of the same sex.  It's important to distinguish between these two, both in discussing animal behavior and human behavior and ideas in the past.

Most instances of animal "homosexuality" are merely homoeroticism.  Perhaps some are dominance displays, but others are likely to be the result of needing a hole and not having a member of the opposite sex around.  That's not to say animal homosexuality is impossible, but it is very difficult to observe in the wild (but it has been observed in laboratory conditions.

In humans, when we look at antiquity, what we find is mostly homoeroticism.  Biblical passages, for example, forbid homoerotic acts, but say nothing specifically about a homosexual orientation.  In Classcial Antiquity (i.e. Ancient Greece and Rome), we often find mentions of homoerotic acts, but these are in the context of a system that defines sexuality differently.  Their system looked at sexual roles--the male plays the active role, the female plays the passive role.  So if a man chooses to anally penetrate another man, the first man is in the masculine role--it is the receiver who is in the feminine or homosexual role.  And indeed it was considered a great dishonor to be in the passive role, such that it was actually illegal for one man to anally penetrate another citizen--it was only allowed for slaves.  In Ancient Athens in particular we find such laws, and moreover we find that there are known homosexuals who actually routinely engage in the passive role by choice.  These men were understandably ridiculed.  In fact one such man, named Cleisthenes, was repeatedly ridiculed in the plays of Aristophanes.

So we can see from ancient writings that homosexuality, and sometimes homoeroticism, was not viewed favorably.  That is, this is clearly a natural state.  One need not credit religion for denigration of homosexuality; rather religion merely codified the extant societal disapproval of it.

Now if we look at the modern context, we can establish some simple ideas.  Firstly, it is perfectly normal to find homosexuality distasteful or unappealing.  Secondly, modern society has taken homosexuality to an extreme never before seen--public celebration of this abnormality.  So we understandably see a rise in so-called "homophobia" because we are being assaulted with it in parades and in the media.  In the past homosexuals were generally normal people who either tried to live a normal life or kept their sexual preferences a private matter.  Modern homosexuals, on the other hand, frequently define themselves first and foremost by their homosexuality (whereas straight folk usually prioritize other definitions, such as occupations, familial roles, ethnic heritage, etc.).  That is, this modern phenomenon of widespread "homophobia" is due to the nonsensical elevation of a mental disorder to a source of pride.  Few pedophiles, schizophrenics, manic-depressives, etc. take their disorders as a source of pride, and that is normal.  Homosexuals desperately need to re-evaluate their self-conceptions and roles in society.


#186    ouija ouija

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:09 AM

View Postali smack, on 26 February 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Why is homophobia so commonplace?
Why in our society is homosexuality hated and frowned upon. The same with Bisexuality regarding men.
But lesbianism and Bisexuality regarding women is thought as fine.
Anyone know why this is the case?
In a word: sodomy. This is what offends and disgusts people.

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#187    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:48 AM

View PostOdin11, on 05 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Bigotry is bigotry, no mater how you try and spin it. Being anti-gay is the same as being anti-black or anti-jew, etc.

That's a nice PC slogan, but it doesn't address my point. Some people reject the lifestyle because it's not compatible with their belief system, and that doesn't make them bigots (in the real world). That's not spin; that's just truth. It could be that attacking and insulting these religious individuals is its own form of bigotry.

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#188    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

View PostOdin11, on 05 March 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Then your god is a bigot, and is not worth worshiping.

What do you mean 'your God'?

You make it sound like I'm the minority when you are.


#189    shadowhive

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

View Postpallidin, on 05 March 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Nature is all about survival, be it killing animals for food, or having sex with the opposite sex to pro-create; for humans anyway..

Is that wrong in ANY way? Seem's a natural dictate from Nature.

Or should all humans die in the next 2 hundred years from being only homosexual?

Thats a misnomer. That's like saying if everyone was infertile humanity would die out and using that as an excuse to demonise infertile people. The fact is gay poeople, like infertile people make up a small portion of humanity and no one is saying or advocating that everyone should be gay.

But klets for example, say what you say did happen, that the entire population suddenly became gay. ould it mean the end of the species like you claim? Well if it happened 100+ years ago then yes it would because hetrosexual sex was the only means of producing children. However, now we have artifical insemination. This is a form of procreation that gay people are more than willing to do. So it's safe to assume that a 100% population of homosexuals would use the same (or more advanced techniques) to ensure the species survival. Of course the advantage of this would be that every child is wanted and planned for.

So no, a 100% population of gay people wouldn't mean the end of the species (unless it was only one gender or everyone was infertile too).

View PostMr Right Wing, on 05 March 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

I know this is going to seem incredible to you.

But there are religious people who see it as against Gods law.

And there are religious people that don't.

There's religious people that think anyone that converts from their religion should be killed. Should their views be given weight because of their god's law?

God's law really shouldn't enter into it.

View PostOverSword, on 05 March 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Now I have a question.  Based on my post above about same sex dominance display by animals, should I be labled  a homophobe?

No, unless you were trying to use that to invalidate same sex relationships based on that.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
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#190    shadowhive

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:27 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 06 March 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

That's a nice PC slogan, but it doesn't address my point. Some people reject the lifestyle because it's not compatible with their belief system, and that doesn't make them bigots (in the real world). That's not spin; that's just truth. It could be that attacking and insulting these religious individuals is its own form of bigotry.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, what lifestyle? There's no such thing as a gay lifestyle, anymore than there is a straight lifestyle.

I think we have to combat such belief systems that claim that it's incompatible and not just shrug and go 'ok then'. If a belief system said that advocated women or people of a certain skin colour were incompatible with the faith's teachings woould you be ok with that or would you want that belief to be challenged?

To be honest, I'm sick of people who use their religion as a shield to hide behind so they can treat others negatively.

Edited by shadowhive, 06 March 2013 - 01:35 PM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#191    Godofcats

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

It's because homophobics are afraid they might be gay themselves. Like that one church group that protest everything and blames everything on gay people, they're the gayest people around probably.


#192    Arpee

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

Homophobia is taught. It is not natural. There are no homophobic animals...

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#193    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:22 PM

Well yes, and it is largely cultural.  There are parts of the world where absent Western missionaries the idea never occurred to anyone.


#194    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

View PostArpee, on 06 March 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Homophobia is taught. It is not natural. There are no homophobic animals...

No it isnt.

As a young child my instincts automatically told me those people arent normal. Thats without anybody trying to indocturnate me to a particular way of thinking. I say my disapproval of homosexuality was inherited.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 06 March 2013 - 03:35 PM.


#195    OverSword

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:53 PM

I had a roomate from Laos many years ago and he was a little disturbed by the gay people where I live (I live in the gayest nieghborhood in the 3rd gayest city in America) and when I mentioned something about gay people in Laos he looked at me in all seriousness and said "Jon, there's no gays in Laos, we would kill them"  To which I laughed.

Edited by OverSword, 06 March 2013 - 04:09 PM.





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