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UFO reports - From Foo fighters to today


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#61    psyche101

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:00 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 11 January 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

One thing to keep in mind is people would use terms familiar to them at the time. So a cigar-shaped UFO could have been interpreted as an airship, ghost flyer. The Airship Wave of the late 1800s could have had some UFO truth in it. Just like Finland offcially investigated UFOs during the mid 1930s.

You can read the article here: http://fimufon.wordp...-ufo-incidents/

Hundreds of citizens would have callled them mysterious phantom aircrafts or ghost fliers. A UFO shooting down a beam would have been described as a spotlight at the time. Coral E. Lorenzen used the term hemispherical-shaped object instead of flying saucer.

Foo Fighters could have been the small spherical probes or balls of light observed around larger UFO craft. Some Foo Fighters were described as small disc.


Yes, interpretation is loose, that is why testimony is useless as you have outlined here. However, how do you interpret two men peddling on a bicycle frame of ET? And what about the description of the downed airship, the farmer spoke to the alleged occupant, who was by all means quite human. Also, if the interpretation are muddled, why do we get extraordinary stories backed with evidence such as:

Posted Image

?


The descriptions are quite clear, why try to twist them into ET?

Consider these aspects:


a former street railway employee who said he heard a voice from above call, "Throw her up higher; she'll hit the steeple."

When he looked up he saw two men seated on a bicycle-like frame, peddling

Balloons capable of carrying people had been around for almost a hundred years and it seemed that the key to powered flight might soon be discovered.

One San Francisco attorney, nicknamed "Airship" Collins, claimed that he was representing the eccentric and wealthy inventor who had constructed the thing at a secret location in Oroville, just sixty miles north of Sacramento.

A farmer claimed he'd encountered the airship on the ground, under repair. (no ALiens reported)



and most interestingly




In addition, as today, practical jokers did not hesitate to send balloons lighted with candles into the sky, or kites with lanterns, if they thought they could put one over on the public. Others may have created "crash" sites complete with debris. One newspaper, the PeoriaTranscript, sent up lighted, colored, paper balloons to "test" people's imaginations. A number of "airship" sightings was the result.

So I ask, why Aliens? Did one ship "descend from the heavens"? No, they all cruised at an altitude of about 500 feet. How is that Alien?

What you are doing is shoehorning ET into a story.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#62    psyche101

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:13 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 11 January 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Cigar-shape should give you a clue since that type of UFO craft has been reported a lot but also keep in mind during that time period some of the details may reflect the culture of the time.

What? So have saucers and spheres, how does that make it ET? Airships are also cigar shaped, and witnesses claim to have seen normal people speaking the same language.

There is no ET aspect here at all, you are trying to force ET into a story where he does not belong, and that is why the UFO phenomena has no credibility. Some people see ET everywhere, just like some people see God everywhere.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 11 January 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

That would be a computer generated image based on how a person would have see an object 100+ years ago. Culture at the time very much influenced how a person would describe a UFO and the terms they would use.

And what aspects of "culture" are you proposing that would make these people think an ET visitation was a human endeavour? People already knew about ET, life on other worlds had already been postulated for centuries at this time, in fact, this was the time of the Martian Canal controversy. Lowell lost that ET claim.

People in 1896 were not so stupid as to confuse a spacecraft with a man driven machine. Hell, people were reported on the thing.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 11 January 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

The objects could have quickly move around the B-17 too. Foo Fighters remian a mystery and could have easily been ET  probes. The small probes are also observed around UFO craft and sometimes during an alien abduction.

Why does it matter if they move around it as well? If electromagnetic in nature, and if plasma, that is likely the case, this would be an expected behaviour. They still went right through craft, even ones that aimed at them. They were not physical. They held no instruments, that had no noticeable mass. That's phenomena, not ET.

BS, they are more likely the phenomena we see at Hessdalen. They match in size, colour composition and behaviour. We have earthly processes that explain this, so why pretend it is a space related object?

Sorry, I cannot get on board with Abductions, I find the concept very silly. That has no convincing aspect with regards to this case as far as I can see relating to that woo woo vein of the phenomena.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 11 January 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

You can see towards the end of this YouTube clip about the Wytheville, Virginia UFO flap a small red probe is observed docking with a rather large craft.

The appearance fo smaller spheres merging into larger ones has been documented at Hessdalen before.

Sorry, you and I have not conversed before, I have had Youtube banned at my place, my kids abuse it, and I have come to hate it with a passion. I ask any poster to please refrain from that site when conversing with me. If there is no other way, and the evidence is significant, I will go to the trouble to watch it on my phone, but in most cases, I will avoid it, as per my signature. If you could outline this in words, I would appreciate the effort.

When we have earthly explanations for an instance, why discount them, and force ET into the picture? I never understood that. This sort of approach I am sorry to say appears as a desperate attempt to validate ET, and I am sorry to say, this is why the phenomena has the reputation it does today. People are far too eager to force ET into any story they can. Why not wait for a genuine instance, and be genuinely amazed? Why such insistance on such flimsy evidence?

Edited by psyche101, 11 January 2013 - 07:16 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#63    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:18 AM

Portage County UFOs chase.  http://alien-ufo-res...ufopolicechase/
Thanks, Psyche, for pointing this out. haven't heard of it before. This case is quite interesting. There are a numbers of credible witness who seemed to have more to lose than gain by telling their story. What you guys think of this case?




#64    mcrom901

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:24 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 12 January 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Portage County UFOs chase.  http://alien-ufo-res...ufopolicechase/

i wonder what is so alienishly unexplainable about that case, the response from the usaf?


#65    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:08 AM

View Postmcrom901, on 12 January 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

i wonder what is so alienishly unexplainable about that case, the response from the usaf?

Nah, its just that there were multiple witnesses including many officers from different county all chasing the same object. The object seemed to be playing a game of cat and mouse with the cops. I hates those dirty furballs, dragging some birds into my shed, blood and feathers everywhere :no:


#66    Kludge808

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:03 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 10 January 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Getting closer, we are going to have to meet Chrlzs at Treetops Tavern one Friday afternoon soon. :D

The Aussie UM contingent get together :D

View Postpsyche101, on 10 January 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Getting closer, we are going to have to meet Chrlzs at Treetops Tavern one Friday afternoon soon. :D

The Aussie UM contingent get together :D
Drat.   Right ocean, wrong rock.  <_<

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#67    Kludge808

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:58 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 January 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Balloons capable of carrying people had been around for almost a hundred years and it seemed that the key to powered flight might soon be discovered.
Late last year, I think in TT, I wrote one of my infamous treatises, that particular one on the feasibility of a manned, self-propelled airship in the mid to late 1800s using technology known at the time.  What it came down to was that by 1880 it was entirely possible for that to happen.  Something I forgot to mention was that development of the internal combustion engine was well under way by that time and by around 1850 had gotten to the point that powering an airship would have been possible using the technology at hand.  The known engines at the time (1850s) weren't of sufficient power individually however the technology continued to improve such that by the 1880s it would have been possible to have a gasoline powered engine or two propelling an airship.  For that matter, DC motor & generator technology was far enough along that having an inboard engine driving a generator which powered drive motors (same concept as diesel locomotives today) would have been feasible.

Just some thoughts through a massive headache.

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#68    Kludge808

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:33 AM

Darn it, DL, now you're gonna force me to dig through the muck 'n mire of the TT thread to find my treatise on Kecksburg as well.

Ah, found it:

"Yep, sure is but part of that comes from folks who wanted/want to sensationalize the event in hopes of cashing in on Roswell's "fame."  The rest were/are less excited about it and figure they had their allotted 15 minutes so it's time to move on.  In other words, it's more about the town itself.  I've lost touch with the folks I knew from there when I moved to Hawaii in 2000 but the subject came up now & then and they filled me in on the latest poop ... er, scoop.

The Army cordoned off the area while the experts were doing experty things including radiation testing.  All that was told to the locals was to be careful and don't gather souvenirs when the cordon was lifted.  Several assisted loading the object on the truck since apparently the folks who were supposed to be doing it weren't doing all that good a job.  There was brass there as well as suits but a lot of what they did was stand around with their thumbs somewhere unsanitary while trying to look important, talk among themselves and drink coffee.

Everyone who was interviewed to get witness statements was, in fact, asked not to talk among themselves or to others until all the statements were gathered.  After that no one cared who they talked to or how much was said.  It's the same as cops gathering statements at a traffic accident - "Please don't talk among yourselves or with anyone else until we've got everyone's statement."  This reduces cross-contamination and allows each statement to be that person's own observations.

The real fun started a few days later when the UFO community descended on Kecksburg and started twisting things to fit their own agendas.  The Wikipedia entry reflects that creativity but that's what happens when virtually anyone's allowed to make entries.

What was the object?  Who knows.  The fact that the locals were allowed close after the experts were done implies to me it was something familiar to someone there and not all that dangerous rather than an alien object.  If it had been the latter, the procedures would have been completely different, especially since the danger level would have been unknown.

As a side note, I saw the object while it was on its North to South passage prior to becoming the "Kecksburg UFO."  My boss then and I were both ex-Navy and both trained as lookouts so were, by definition, trained observers plus I was a pilot.  We watched it go by - as did a number of others - then looked at each other with a "What the [bad.word] was that?!?" expression."

Anyway, that's what I have on that subject.

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#69    DONTEATUS

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:02 AM

THis is the best Idea in here in the last few years ! A Brew Fest on the Really Big-Bigger Island of Aussie Land ! Psyche101 can arrange a metting place for all that can make it in 2015 when the Stars all Line up in the Known Universe.
Good Bar,Great People All the Stars in Alignment ,All the Mugs along the bar and Shrimps on the Barbie ! A Real U/M Event ! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#70    psyche101

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:10 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 12 January 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Portage County UFOs chase.  http://alien-ufo-res...ufopolicechase/
Thanks, Psyche, for pointing this out. haven't heard of it before. This case is quite interesting. There are a numbers of credible witness who seemed to have more to lose than gain by telling their story. What you guys think of this case?


I think the clear descriptions from the officers are very good, and the level of corroboration as above the average case, also shapes such as the upside down ice cream cone do not sounds like natural phenomena. This UFO was also claimed to have been seen at ground level, rising to 300 feet, then 1,000, then 3500. It's the closest report we have of a UFO actually heading for space not the old disappeared, or shot straight up, it actually has a sensible trajectory with atmospheric capable speeds. But a big hole lies in the size of the craft, 35 foot is still too small for Interstellar travel, even accounting for exotic technology. Keeps me scratching my head though.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#71    psyche101

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:28 AM

View PostKludge808, on 19 March 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Late last year, I think in TT, I wrote one of my infamous treatises, that particular one on the feasibility of a manned, self-propelled airship in the mid to late 1800s using technology known at the time.  What it came down to was that by 1880 it was entirely possible for that to happen.  Something I forgot to mention was that development of the internal combustion engine was well under way by that time and by around 1850 had gotten to the point that powering an airship would have been possible using the technology at hand.  The known engines at the time (1850s) weren't of sufficient power individually however the technology continued to improve such that by the 1880s it would have been possible to have a gasoline powered engine or two propelling an airship.  For that matter, DC motor & generator technology was far enough along that having an inboard engine driving a generator which powered drive motors (same concept as diesel locomotives today) would have been feasible.

Just some thoughts through a massive headache.

I'll raise and match that headache. ZZ Top night before last at a small local intimate gig here, much scotch and dry was consumed and the night was amazing and I finnally saw Billy Gibbons play La Grange live. I only have to see Dave Gilmour play comfortably numb now and my list is checked.


I always see the correlation between our tech and "Alienz" tech as an amusing rough marker of our own technology.
Once we had airships, we had cigars, we only needed the mention of a saucer, and people claimed to see them. Had Kenneth Arnold been quoted literally, I do wonder what the face of UFOlogy would look like today. Would "saucers" as such even exist? These "Aleinz" seem to base their technology on our media. Airships in the 1800" Heres a cigar "UFO" from the same time frame, earliest reported I think. What a coinky dink.

Posted Image


The above photo's date is controversial. It was either shot in 1870, 1880 or 1896, depending on the source. Supposedly this was taken in New Hampshire looking at Mt. Washington. The classic cigar shape UFO, that was seen in the USA in the last years of the 1800's. Maybe it is legit. As best I can tell the UFO is above MT. Washington, the clouds swirl obscuring the definition of the mountain below the craft.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#72    Kludge808

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:56 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 21 March 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

I think the clear descriptions from the officers are very good, and the level of corroboration as above the average case, also shapes such as the upside down ice cream cone do not sounds like natural phenomena.  This UFO was also claimed to have been seen at ground level, rising to 300 feet, then 1,000, then 3500. It's the closest report we have of a UFO actually heading for space not the old disappeared, or shot straight up, it actually has a sensible trajectory with atmospheric capable speeds.
It's one of two favored cases for those among many other reasons.

Quote

But a big hole lies in the size of the craft, 35 foot is still too small for Interstellar travel, even accounting for exotic technology. Keeps me scratching my head though.
However something on the order of a scout from a larger ship works quite well.  This raises the question of where was the larger ship?

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#73    Kludge808

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:16 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 21 March 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

I'll raise and match that headache. ZZ Top night before last at a small local intimate gig here, much scotch and dry was consumed and the night was amazing and I finnally saw Billy Gibbons play La Grange live. I only have to see Dave Gilmour play comfortably numb now and my list is checked.
Ahhh, the good old days.  I can't say I remember them at all but all the times I don't remember is why I quit drinking.  Mine was a migraine which I don't get as often as I used to but when I do they are IN-tense ...

Quote

I always see the correlation between our tech and "Alienz" tech as an amusing rough marker of our own technology.
Once we had airships, we had cigars, we only needed the mention of a saucer, and people claimed to see them. Had Kenneth Arnold been quoted literally, I do wonder what the face of UFOlogy would look like today. Would "saucers" as such even exist? These "Aleinz" seem to base their technology on our media. Airships in the 1800" Heres a cigar "UFO" from the same time frame, earliest reported I think. What a coinky dink.
Yep.  I guess they read our newspapers and figure they may as well play along. :yes:

Which brings up an interesting point.  Are the triangular craft derived from the Imperial star destroyers?  They're definitely triangular although a lot more pointy, more like an arrowhead.

Quote

Posted Image


The above photo's date is controversial. It was either shot in 1870, 1880 or 1896, depending on the source. Supposedly this was taken in New Hampshire looking at Mt. Washington. The classic cigar shape UFO, that was seen in the USA in the last years of the 1800's. Maybe it is legit. As best I can tell the UFO is above MT. Washington, the clouds swirl obscuring the definition of the mountain below the craft.
Okay, so what are those rectangular thingies at the let end of the object?  There are an awful lot of straight lines in that pic which don't make any kind of sense.  Your thoughts?

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#74    meteorlima

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostKludge808, on 22 March 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Ahhh, the good old days.  I can't say I remember them at all but all the times I don't remember is why I quit drinking.  Mine was a migraine which I don't get as often as I used to but when I do they are IN-tense ...

Yep.  I guess they read our newspapers and figure they may as well play along. :yes:

Which brings up an interesting point.  Are the triangular craft derived from the Imperial star destroyers?  They're definitely triangular although a lot more pointy, more like an arrowhead.

Okay, so what are those rectangular thingies at the let end of the object?  There are an awful lot of straight lines in that pic which don't make any kind of sense.  Your thoughts?
  The photo is not a ufo in the clouds but rather a log floating down a fast moving river.


#75    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:33 AM

View PostKludge808, on 22 March 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

It's one of two favored cases for those among many other reasons.

However something on the order of a scout from a larger ship works quite well.  This raises the question of where was the larger ship?
yes, that's what i've always argued, although people just seem to dismiss it point blank as sci fi fantasy. of course, also, it was not manned (or alienned), but was an automated probe or drone, size wouldn't be an issue, and neither wiould G forces that no living thing could stand or the immeasurable distances of space. What I've sometimes envisaged is a forward base or mother ship somewhere inconspicuous, like among the Moons of Jupiter or Saturn or the asteroid Belt, which might not be distinguishable from a regular Asteroid or moonlet, at least from this distance, which is used as a base for a systematic program of exploration of the whiole Soalr System, not necessarily just us. We might not be of any particular interest to any explorers; that might be why sightings of these probe craft are fairly intermittent and theyhaven't made Contact yet.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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