275 replies to this topic

[al-amiyr]

Darkwind, on 13 November 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

  
He missed that we are 65% water, but we have a bunch of other stuff, too.

There are other verses in the Quraan that go into the greater details. But those are books in their own right. I am also about to finish The Qur'aan Quantum Physical Model; The Qur'aan Biological Model; And other Models of knowledge. But I would just like to concentrate here on the subject of this thread which is basically The Qur'aan Cosmological Model. I stated that earlier in one of the posts. But continue asking questions because one always improves ones knowledge and ones ideas can get expanded.

[al-amiyr]

Darkwind, on 13 November 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

     
Now here is a site that explains Hindu cosmology. You can read it for yourself I am sure.
http://journalofcosm...tronomy122.html

Did I ever say that Hindu Cosmology contains no truths? In fact I teach the Bhagavad Gita. I do believe that it is a Divine Book on another level like the Qur'aan. The two books compliment each other. The same like the Torah. But then again you must study it from the original languages and not via human translations that take away exactly what is meant to be conveyed.

[Darkwind]

al-amiyr, on 13 November 2012 - 12:35 AM, said:

Show me the Qur'aanic word that say that it was solid.


Thanks. It is always enjoyable to have these discussions.

The quote comes from your own post.  I don't read Arabic and don't want to even learn to read Arabic. I have no need for it, so it would be a waste of time.  You're the one who is trying to put prove religion with science not me. You're the one who has to show the proof.  I got nothing to prove. What I am saying is you really don't have enough in your Quranic quote to say there is any science in it.

Over the weekend I tried to explain gravity to a Pagan who said it was energy. I tried to explain no, it is space curved my mass. Alas, he agreed with the me and said yes gravity is an energy. You're just like him throwing out the words without meaning,  because you don't really understand the physics.  That is what you are doing. I am sure you will sell a lot of books to gullible Muslims who slept through or never had a proper science class.

[Darkwind]

I don't believe any book is divine, they all come from the hand of man. Just paper and ink, not worth a mans or womans life.   I'm a Pagan, child of the earth, we have no sacred texts, what we learn is from nature. Which is why I read a lot of science.  I try not to mix my religious practice and science, because they are two different things, like oil and water.

[al-amiyr]

Darkwind, on 13 November 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

The quote comes from your own post.  I don't read Arabic and don't want to even learn to read Arabic. I have no need for it, so it would be a waste of time.  You're the one who is trying to put prove religion with science not me. You're the one who has to show the proof.  I got nothing to prove. What I am saying is you really don't have enough in your Quranic quote to say there is any science in it.

Over the weekend I tried to explain gravity to a Pagan who said it was energy. I tried to explain no, it is space curved my mass. Alas, he agreed with the me and said yes gravity is an energy. You're just like him throwing out the words without meaning,  because you don't really understand the physics.  That is what you are doing. I am sure you will sell a lot of books to gullible Muslims who slept through or never had a proper science class.

Now why must you always become personal and try and belittle someone you don't even know? You did not even read my text. I don't know why you are bothering to dicuss a subject that you have not even attempted to understand. Why this animosity and then you want to blame Muslims for such behaviour. I am discussing in the most civil manner and then you want to behave like a bull in the Kraal. Knock down what I am saying. I asked you a simple question and then you become angry because you cannot answer. You appear to be living in a world of illusions. You have not displayed any intelligence so far in my opinion. Read the posts again because you are totally bewildered.

[al-amiyr]

Darkwind, on 13 November 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't believe any book is divine, they all come from the hand of man. Just paper and ink, not worth a mans or womans life.   I'm a Pagan, child of the earth, we have no sacred texts, what we learn is from nature. Which is why I read a lot of science.  I try not to mix my religious practice and science, because they are two different things, like oil and water.

Well you have right to believe as you please but don't get angry at others. First listen to the arguments. Don't be like the inquisition. Debate and argue your points. In the end reason may prevail.

[pallidin]

Hahahahahaa!!!!!

Well, I've had the displeasure of reading this entire thread, and would agree 1000% that this is "preaching" and an attempt at "conversion"

I think, not sure, that such incessant postings, regardless of religion, are not allowed here in UM.

[al-amiyr]

pallidin, on 13 November 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

Hahahahahaa!!!!!

Well, I've had the displeasure of reading this entire thread, and would agree 1000% that this is "preaching" and an attempt at "conversion"

I think, not sure, that such incessant postings, regardless of religion, are not allowed here in UM.

What is "preaching" here. How would I otherwise present the argument. Give guidance. It would be appreciated.

[pallidin]

al-amiyr, on 13 November 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

What is "preaching" here. How would I otherwise present the argument. Give guidance. It would be appreciated.

I'll leave that answer to the Moderators.

[Knight Of Shadows]

thanks for answering my question i actually breathed reliaf when  saw first names of family tree called omar and abu baker
you see i have seen some propogenda that start legimate at first
then in middle of it by hiding lies beneath facts they  slip some shitties teaching
so in way the reader is not aware he'll take couple of lies while they are presented with some facts
that is the reason of my previous doubt just so you understand

now apart from that i think your topic is very interesting
and required alot of work and knowledge to get it done
on side note i don't think the topic is preaching at all
you have point .. you're trying to prove as long as you provide evidence to prove it it's not preaching
there is just some people would consider anything about islam is preaching when it's not bashing it
if it's not talking about how bad muslims they are and how cruel islam is they that unfortunatly in their book considered preaching
preaching in my opinion is trying to convert people to other religions
and so for i have not seen this thing from you and honestly i hope not to see it
coz it'll ruin the topic

i think you shouldn't get into those endless debates with them coz they are never based on anything
rather their own dislike or whatever it is to islam and the goal is to degrade the topic
so if you have point you think you can " prove it "  then go on with it

thanks for sharing those info and i'll keep an eye it

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 13 November 2012 - 03:31 AM.

[Alienated Being]

I am actually looking at my copy of The Holy Quran, translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

Quote

Surah 21 -- The Prophets

Verse 30

Do not the Unbelievers see that the Heavens and the Earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

The universe was created 13 billion years ago, and the Earth is ~4.5 Billion years old. The Earth and the "heavens" were not joined together, as the earth had not even been created at the time of singularity. Secondly, during the time of singularity, nothing existed; not even hydrogen. Thirdly, every living thing is not created FROM water.

Quote

Surah 21 -- The Prophets

Verse. 104

The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed) - even as WE produced the first Creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfill it

So, the heavens are going to combine and create a new creation?..

It is an interesting post, though it is flawed.

Edited by Alienated Being, 13 November 2012 - 04:28 AM.

[Rlyeh]

Christian apologists have made similar arguments, if a verse is vague enough you can apply it to anything.

[Cybele]

I thought it was considered sacrilegious to translate the Quran into languages other than Arabic.

[Cybele]

Rlyeh, on 13 November 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Christian apologists have made similar arguments, if a verse is vague enough you can apply it to anything.

This becomes particularly true when dealing with Semitic languages, where one word can have multiple meanings, depending on the context.

[Lion6969]

Alienated Being, on 13 November 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

I am actually looking at my copy of The Holy Quran, translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.



The universe was created 13 billion years ago, and the Earth is ~4.5 Billion years old. The Earth and the "heavens" were not joined together, as the earth had not even been created at the time of singularity. Secondly, during the time of singularity, nothing existed; not even hydrogen. Thirdly, every living thing is not created FROM water.

Heavens and the earth united as one single unit, means the sum if all matter ie the universe was once all joined to such a small density it is vitally equivalent zero. The verse does not refer to the age of the earth or universe. In context the author is making a passing reference to the beginning of existence ie the universe. The author (of the Quran) is not providing a scientific paper nor a thesis on the matter for you to expect specific details equations etc. The author makes a reference to the most fundamental aspect of existence ie the universe, that it began, that all the matter, time, space etc began from a point when the heavens and earth constituting the universe vast space and that which exists within it were once one body united as a singularity, which was cleft asunder, ie was caused to explode so to speak and expand. Hence why others verses clearly state that it is Allah who is expanding the heavens! Clearly when your limitations on the Quran are evident and you are dependent solely on the translations, your on a weaker footing to fully comprehend.....but try though

Quote

So, the heavens are going to combine and create a new creation?..

It is an interesting post, though it is flawed.

I love how the usual suspects are flocking to derail this thread. When they arrive they lack any critical thinking or analysis and offer only hollow points such as "this is preaching" or "this is flawed" or "this is vague"! Grow up, man up, grow a pair! Deconstruct his argument cause he has put in the effort to construct and argument, illustrated with detail, breakdown of language, root key words, transportations, translations, everything from non bias non Muslim sources and all you can muster in response are such remarks as the ones I mentioned earlier!

Come on people, be civilised, be honest, if you don't understand, ask! If you don't agree, say why and how, if you want to learn more, simply ask the man, but don't come on and try and derail the thread or throw mud or simply say this is flawed, without any substance to the statement!

The above is a general statement alien, not specifically directed at you mate.