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Ultimate Enlightment


neok

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I am taking this topic out just to open everyones eyes to a new dimension of thinking. Actually this is not a mystery, but a whole new way of looking at life. Please let me know what do you perceive when you hear the word Buddhism? I am also a laymen to the philosophy of Buddhism. But I can guide anyone who is interested in finding what it is. The main thing in it is that understanding and accepting of the philosophy is totally up to the person and it will not impose rules on you. Enlightenment is the ultimate goal of the person who believes in Buddhism and practicing it.

For more information you may check this site : http://www.buddhanet.net/

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Interesting post, thanks.

The way i see it is if you have faith in yourself then thats all that matters.

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It appears as if a mini-Sangha is forming. There are several followers of the Way running around here. They'll probably pop in and say "hi."

Out of curiosity, what school do you represent?

and

Is it Brother Neok or Sister Neok?

peace.

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One doesn't teach one of enlightenement, one kows that all are enlightened its simply a matter of realizing that and that is a process that just happens....Buddhism can stand on its own it doesn't need to be pimped...but enjoy your journey and the greatest teacher was once the best student its okay to be where you are.....Welcome to UM..

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One doesn't teach one of enlightenement, one kows that all are enlightened its simply a matter of realizing that and that is a process that just happens....Buddhism can stand on its own it doesn't need to be pimped...but enjoy your journey and the greatest teacher was once the best student its okay to be where you are.....Welcome to UM..

I greatly appreciate your understanding and it is not my intention to spread the words of Lord Buddha but to have an understanding discussion on the wonderful practices like meditation and practical experience of others mainly, but not limited to the subject which will invoke the interesting thoughts by all!!

Have anyone of you tried to meditate? Do you believe in meditation and did anybody tried this without proper guidance! I too novice to the practice and believe me the beginning is very difficult!

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I greatly appreciate your understanding and it is not my intention to spread the words of Lord Buddha but to have an understanding discussion on the wonderful practices like meditation and practical experience of others mainly, but not limited to the subject which will invoke the interesting thoughts by all!!

Have anyone of you tried to meditate? Do you believe in meditation and did anybody tried this without proper guidance! I too novice to the practice and believe me the beginning is very difficult!

yes i meditate, i too was once a novice and still am in many ways, this I pass on to you, simply go to the silence that is already there its there you are just going to it, in order to quiet the mind you must think about what you are thinking about, then stop thinking about that watch the thougths rise and fall this is the nature of the mind don't engage in thinking about a thought that comes up jsut watch it go as if you are watching a cloud pass in the sky its really very easy this can be accomplished very quickly...its really easy once you try, also there are many ways to mediate do not get caught up in right ways or labels, you will find your way and there is nothing to fear ......your going home i know this sounds so cliche but for lack of better words you are meeting yourself and for some this is a beautiful emotional moment for others a quiet knowing, some freak few have really gotten to know themselves i was one who was freaked out for a time....but i got through it with no guru's.... there is no right or wrong, the practice guides you...you aren't trying to do anything have no expectations you are just being the silence that is there .., now this may sound boring or pointless but i assure you its not your life will change in ways you can't begin to imagine i can't ell you how we each have our own truth our own unique awareness you will know , just start by going to the silence, good luck brother and may we meet in the oneness....

i was one who couldn't sit in meditation I was to disconnected and conditoned i used the path of yoga so as i said there are many ways and its interresting i suddenly had this great nterest in yoga and it was the perfect way for me to self realize start the journey... i now practice living mediation.....you can meditate doing the dishes, taking a walk so agian don't think you jsut have to sit under a tree...lol.....

i have a dear freind also that may have some good suggestions I will ask him if he will post to help.....

Edited by Supra Sheri
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yes i meditate, i too was once a novice and still am in many ways, this I pass on to you, simply go to the silence that is already there its there you are just going to it, in order to quiet the mind you must think about what you are thinking about, then stop thinking about that watch the thougths rise and fall this is the nature of the mind don't engage in thinking about a thought that comes up jsut watch it go as if you are watching a cloud pass in the sky its really very easy this can be accomplished very quickly...its really easy once you try, also there are many ways to mediate do not get caught up in right ways or labels, you will find your way and there is nothing to fear ......your going home i know this sounds so cliche but for lack of better words you are meeting yourself and for some this is a beautiful emotional moment for others a quiet knowing, some freak few have really gotten to know themselves i was one who was freaked out for a time....but i got through it with no guru's.... there is no right or wrong, the practice guides you...you aren't trying to do anything have no expectations you are just being the silence that is there .., now this may sound boring or pointless but i assure you its not your life will change in ways you can't begin to imagine i can't ell you how we each have our own truth our own unique awareness you will know , just start by going to the silence, good luck brother and may we meet in the oneness....

i was one who couldn't sit in meditation I was to disconnected and conditoned i used the path of yoga so as i said there are many ways and its interresting i suddenly had this great nterest in yoga and it was the perfect way for me to self realize start the journey... i now practice living mediation.....you can meditate doing the dishes, taking a walk so agian don't think you jsut have to sit under a tree...lol.....

i have a dear freind also that may have some good suggestions I will ask him if he will post to help.....

Your information is so useful and interesting! To be frank I have never tried it in the sense that you perceive it!!! It is a very nice way to look at it! If I am to tell what I know, it is that we concentrate on our breath when we do meditation! It is the inhale and the exhale that basically we concentrate on while thinking how it process inside our lungs. This will let the mind to concentrate on a single process which is the key to the proper understanding of what is true and what is not true. If I am not wrong you must have a great strength in mind to co-op with the inexplicable experiences one has to face while he advances in the meditation. Let me know the experiences and the suggestions of your friend also if you can! I will contribute my thoughts in this as the time and my office work permits it! Thanks again!

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may we meet in the oneness...

That's kinda funny Sheri Zenji. :)

I can't add any words that have not been spoken, er written already.

I have a slightly different take from Sheri (I'm working on that understatement of the year award ;) ). It's not that you learn to meditatate while doing other things, the other actions are meditation in themselves. More simply, do not wash dishes to get them clean, wash dishes to wash dishes.

Buddhism is a form. Form can be taught. Practice is form. Form can be taught. Buddha-nature cannot be taught.

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Your information is so useful and interesting! To be frank I have never tried it in the sense that you perceive it!!! It is a very nice way to look at it! If I am to tell what I know, it is that we concentrate on our breath when we do meditation! It is the inhale and the exhale that basically we concentrate on while thinking how it process inside our lungs. This will let the mind to concentrate on a single process which is the key to the proper understanding of what is true and what is not true. If I am not wrong you must have a great strength in mind to co-op with the inexplicable experiences one has to face while he advances in the meditation. Let me know the experiences and the suggestions of your friend also if you can! I will contribute my thoughts in this as the time and my office work permits it! Thanks again!

k< as I said mine is only one way, but yours is kool too, I actaully do that too, you can't think and brathe at the same time lol so that quiets the mind and shows real fast you arent' your mind thoughts are just wind passing through, how much life is wasted stuck in the mind thinking its real lol

Rev, I'm in agreement with you too exactly you just do the dishes , or scrub the floor.

Its natural I think and you will come to the way that works for you or maybe lots of ways.....

K, mind is just a tool and cleansings are differnet based on the conditionings upbringings etc.....

enlightenment is a process truthfully I jsut recently completed the cleansing and have integrated in oneness, I couldn't even define this its very new and thats actaull;y the point living label free lol ... I'm no expert, but as rev says and it seems you are aware of this you can't do your way to self realization its a process a natural unfolding of what we

are natuarlly...

Rev r 'zen' d I looove that sheri zenji I cracked up....

Breathe , let go and be okay with whatever shows up in your experince is my buddhist 'book so far..i see why the masters didn't need to write anything down..lol

Edited by Supra Sheri
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K- i went and dug up some posts by my dear friend whom i have learned alot from and observably understands buddhism.....

thought is all there is. in the unknowing of oneself, one draws on the perceived external for definition. In this state one creates insecurity through the preception of loss of self via loss of the separate. When one understands onself, one no longer sees things as external and separate. There is no desire to hold onto something, for there is no need to hold on, for everything will always be a part of one. quoted by Hyper

"possibly the best understnading of integrating in oneness" the letting go of self "

Attachment is the act of trying to have what one never will have. You want it, you will never have it, which drives your desire more to want it. You can only truly "have" something when you have no attachment to it at all. quoted by hyper

this also i beleive is what we are all saying in our own way, you cnat do buddhism you just are it.....

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From Article

Four Noble Truths:

(1) the noble truth that life involves suffering

(2) the noble truth that suffering arises from craving

(3) the noble truth that suffering ends with the removal of craving

(4) the noble truth that there is a way to the end of suffering.

I really like this idea. If you think of any situation where suffering is involved, and you can refine it down to "craving". Say even in the act of torture, the victim is suffering immensely because they are craving an alleviation of the pain. I guess then that the victim would need to remove themselves mentally from the pain which rids the "craving" and therefore the pain.

Can anyone think of a type of suffering that doesn't relate to "craving"?

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From Article

I really like this idea. If you think of any situation where suffering is involved, and you can refine it down to "craving". Say even in the act of torture, the victim is suffering immensely because they are craving an alleviation of the pain. I guess then that the victim would need to remove themselves mentally from the pain which rids the "craving" and therefore the pain.

Can anyone think of a type of suffering that doesn't relate to "craving"?

interesting, i simply see suffering as attachment, this is wht i think the buddha meant, it seems plausible based on experince when one lets go of labels , definitions neds wants expectations, personality specialness, one no longer suffers, let it go is so profound many blow it off as not applyable wisdom......

also suffering is a judgement made about pain, one can be in pain and not suffer actually pain at its highest level is joyous this too is based in experince , most mothers will say this at childbirth..... although this is not my example, i came to this awareness at the suicide of my best friend ......

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I really like this idea. If you think of any situation where suffering is involved, and you can refine it down to "craving". Say even in the act of torture, the victim is suffering immensely because they are craving an alleviation of the pain. I guess then that the victim would need to remove themselves mentally from the pain which rids the "craving" and therefore the pain.

But what is the suffering of the man who is performing the torture?

Can anyone think of a type of suffering that doesn't relate to "craving"?

Famine caused by a drought. An outbreak of disease due to a flood. :(

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Its natural I think and you will come to the way that works for you or maybe lots of ways.....

Indeed

sheri zenji I cracked up....
I read your post and for a second there thought I was reading Dogen.

Rev r 'zen' d

I just now got that...brilliant!

Breathe , let go and be okay with whatever shows up in your experince is my buddhist 'book so far..i see why the masters didn't need to write anything down..lol

Oh they wrote plenty, you just have to read the words they didn't write.

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Indeed

I read your post and for a second there thought I was reading Dogen.

I just now got that...brilliant!

Oh they wrote plenty, you just have to read the words they didn't write.

rev r 'zen' d and this is said with great resepct,

oh stop dogen puleese if only i had a drop of his insight,..but thanks you are very kind...

- Dogen Zenji

Have good trust in yourself -- not in the One that you think you should be, but in the One that you are

We do not learn by experience, but by our capacity for experience

- Buddha

The world is ruled by letting things take their course.

- Lao-Tzu

I'd like to offer something to help you but in the zen school we don't have a single thing!

- Ikkyu

I gained nothing at all from supreme enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called supreme enlightenment

the buddha

One who conquers himself is greater than another who conquers a thousand times a thousand on the battlefield.

- The Buddha

To get rid of your passions is not Nirvana; to look upon them as no matter of yours, that is nirvana.

- Anonymous

Edited by Supra Sheri
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you can't think and brathe at the same time lol so that quiets the mind and shows real fast you arent' your mind thoughts are just wind passing through, how much life is wasted stuck in the mind thinking its real lol

Rev, I'm in agreement with you too exactly you just do the dishes , or scrub the floor.

Its natural I think and you will come to the way that works for you or maybe lots of ways.....

K, mind is just a tool and cleansings are differnet based on the conditionings upbringings etc.....

enlightenment is a process truthfully I jsut recently completed the cleansing and have integrated in oneness, I couldn't even define this its very new and thats actaull;y the point living label free lol ... I'm no expert, but as rev says and it seems you are aware of this you can't do your way to self realization its a process a natural unfolding of what we

are natuarlly...

Rev r 'zen' d I looove that sheri zenji I cracked up....

Breathe , let go and be okay with whatever shows up in your experince is my buddhist 'book so far..i see why the masters didn't need to write anything down..lol

Supra, this seems interesting! I really respect your ideas but I have to add something about the exhale and inhale! It is not that we think and breath which inturn will control our breath by mind. Instead we have to look at our body(by mind) specially at the tip of the nose where breath touches, how it happens! Never control it! "This concentration of your mind will lead you to a long path of understanding the body we are wearing over our mind" is what I think!

Further to this I would like to tell but not disgracing you but as an opinion that you might have achieved a state of mind which is the beginning to achieve the enlightenment (correct me if not!). It says that you will never tell that you achieved the ultimate state of mind to others but by the way you talk and does things only others get to know that you have achieved it! There are so many stages of mind before we reach to the enlightenment or "Nirvana" and it may take several lives (re-incarnation, which most of you will not believe!) to achieve it! Anyway this discussion seem getting interesting and thanks for every bodies contribution in it!

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It appears as if a mini-Sangha is forming. There are several followers of the Way running around here. They'll probably pop in and say "hi."

Out of curiosity, what school do you represent?

and

Is it Brother Neok or Sister Neok?

peace.

No representation! Just trying to understand!

Peace!!!!!!!!

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But what is the suffering of the man who is performing the torture?

Suffering will not come in a flash! one suffering of the man who like to hurt others is the unease till he finds someone to torture!

Famine caused by a drought. An outbreak of disease due to a flood. :(

Have you ever thought of suffering you made to someone else in one of your early life (if you believe in re-incarnation!)

It is "Karma" or your doings which will lead you to suffering apart from "craving"

Edited by neok
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Supra, this seems interesting! I really respect your ideas but I have to add something about the exhale and inhale! It is not that we think and breath which inturn will control our breath by mind. Instead we have to look at our body(by mind) specially at the tip of the nose where breath touches, how it happens! Never control it! "This concentration of your mind will lead you to a long path of understanding the body we are wearing over our mind" is what I think!

Further to this I would like to tell but not disgracing you but as an opinion that you might have achieved a state of mind which is the beginning to achieve the enlightenment (correct me if not!). It says that you will never tell that you achieved the ultimate state of mind to others but by the way you talk and does things only others get to know that you have achieved it! There are so many stages of mind before we reach to the enlightenment or "Nirvana" and it may take several lives (re-incarnation, which most of you will not believe!) to achieve it! Anyway this discussion seem getting interesting and thanks for every bodies contribution in it!

K I think how ever you want to define things is your truth, its very interesting, and works for you thats whats important.... no worrys i take no offense i'm pleased to chat..

the best way to get to know buddhism is live it, the way will be made known just look within.....and make sure to share your journey as you go...

All the best to you....

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Welcome to a wonderful path, here is a link that might be useful:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:NBkvw3...t=clnk&cd=1

I would especially read the part about suffering. I think we in a western culture percieve this word through translation a bit differntly then what was intended.

razer welcome to UM and thanks for the link will check it out....

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razer welcome to UM and thanks for the link will check it out....

Thanks, I'm glad to be here. I've been reading posts for a long time, felt like it was time to start contributing!

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K I think how ever you want to define things is your truth, its very interesting, and works for you thats whats important.... no worrys i take no offense i'm pleased to chat..

the best way to get to know buddhism is live it, the way will be made known just look within.....and make sure to share your journey as you go...

All the best to you....

Dear SS, it seems you are so humble and I really appreciate it! I would say I really at a lower level of understanding the way of truth than you as I have not started the practicing of concentration of mind in a sensible manner due to the day to day busy life. Any way it says that at least to have intellectual conversations, so that the brain and mind will not malfunction with weired ideas. I really do believe that I found a good friend who could awake the innermost wisdom of people who want to perceive the truth.

May you attain the ultimate goal in the way you believe it!

I will try my best to share what I get on my way, with all!

Edited by neok
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Thanks, I'm glad to be here. I've been reading posts for a long time, felt like it was time to start contributing!

Dear Razer, the link was so useful and thanks a lot!

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yes i meditate, i too was once a novice and still am in many ways, this I pass on to you, simply go to the silence that is already there its there you are just going to it, in order to quiet the mind you must think about what you are thinking about, then stop thinking about that watch the thougths rise and fall this is the nature of the mind don't engage in thinking about a thought that comes up jsut watch it go as if you are watching a cloud pass in the sky its really very easy this can be accomplished very quickly...its really easy once you try, also there are many ways to mediate do not get caught up in right ways or labels, you will find your way and there is nothing to fear ......your going home i know this sounds so cliche but for lack of better words you are meeting yourself and for some this is a beautiful emotional moment for others a quiet knowing, some freak few have really gotten to know themselves i was one who was freaked out for a time....but i got through it with no guru's.... there is no right or wrong, the practice guides you...you aren't trying to do anything have no expectations you are just being the silence that is there .., now this may sound boring or pointless but i assure you its not your life will change in ways you can't begin to imagine i can't ell you how we each have our own truth our own unique awareness you will know , just start by going to the silence, good luck brother and may we meet in the oneness....

i was one who couldn't sit in meditation I was to disconnected and conditoned i used the path of yoga so as i said there are many ways and its interresting i suddenly had this great nterest in yoga and it was the perfect way for me to self realize start the journey... i now practice living mediation.....you can meditate doing the dishes, taking a walk so agian don't think you jsut have to sit under a tree...lol.....

i have a dear freind also that may have some good suggestions I will ask him if he will post to help.....

isnt the goal of the process the silence though? if thoughts bubble and you embrace them while holding your center will the slow? and will slow turn into true silence? i understand the forfeit of activity to the subconscious so your mind can be still, but should you still everything? even your autonomy? and is it you driving yourself when you meditate in activity? or is the activity a tool or technique to engage in stillness by distracting the material body?

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