307 replies to this topic

[Doug1o29]

regeneratia, on 30 September 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

Where is the intital research that penned CO2 as the climate change culprit? No one can find it. To discuss, we need to start from the beginning. Let's start with the original research that clamins that CO2 is the meanie behind climate change.

The artcile referenced by Br. Cornelius was the beginning.  If you're looking for one single article or book that lays it all out in one neat package, I am not aware of one.  Perhaps Br. Cornelius can furnish us with a bibliography.  Here is one I found on my first try:

http://scholar.googl...iodt=1,37&hl=en

It has 170 articles, not all of which are directly relevant.  But a great many are.

Any of us would have to do literature searches to find a good sample of what's available.  Most climatologists are not inclined to do this for the casual reader, who is perfectly able to do it themselves, and may not be inclined to spend as much time reading as it took to compile the list.  Besides, by the time I finished putting one together, it would be obsolete.

I suggest you get a copy of Michael Mann's "The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars:  Dispatches from the Front Lines."  Find the appropriate chapter and type each sentence, one at a time into Google Scholar.  From each run, pick four or five papers that seem to bear on your questions and read them.  Then do the same with the next sentence.  By the time you finish, you'll know more about human causes of global warming than some climatologists.

Happy reading.
Doug

[MID]

It's still ridiculous.
The Sun has always been responsible for what it does, and it has always been responsible for the climate of this planet.
Period.  CO₂?

C'mon.  Man made warming?

Please, the very idea that the tiny human presence on the surface of this planet could possibly overcome the massive energy of the Sun, the planet's capability of cleaning itself up (something humanity doesn't understand, nor can do anything about*), and change the planet's climate, is ridiculous.
The climate does what it does, cyclically, and it couldn't care less what humans do.

Makes for a nice conversation, I suppose, but it's still ridiculous.

* Oh, there's a rthunderstorm coming!  60 MPH wind gusts, hail, heavy rain, maybe a tornado!
What in the world could all of humanity do to stop it, let alone locals.??

Not a damned thing. Nothing.

You're saying that man caused global warming?

Please.  The idea is ludicrous, and unsupportable.

[regeneratia]

Climate Change issues are leading to the attempted enslavement of people all over the world.

http://www.democrats...unagenda21.com/
Fight UN Agenda 21. An agenda that encourages loss of sovereignty and mandates global governance.
"SOUNDS LIKE SCIENCE FICTION...OR SOME CONSPIRACY THEORY...BUT IT ISN'T.
UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is implemented worldwide to inventory and control all land, all water, all minerals, all plants, all animals, all construction, all means of production, all information, and all human beings in the world. INVENTORY AND CONTROL." i.e. Public control of land use.

The green movement is leading us into more government control. Very scary!!
I do not want to be enslaved!! I will die free.
http://www.democrats...om/videos.html

“What can we do about it.OK, I get it. What now? What can I do?
AWARENESS IS THE FIRST STEP IN THE RESISTANCE”
http://www.democrats...t-can-i-do.html"


This is the time to fight Agenda 21, because it is in the initial stages. Time to take a stand. This is about enslavement and trail-of-tears stuff, guys, without concerning matters of genetics and cultures.
Be that person in the resistance.

Edited by regeneratia, 30 September 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[regeneratia]

I did indeed try hard a couple of years ago. I must not have know exactly how to get to the report. Thank you.
I have yet to read it. But I have read that the calculations in that research were faulty. Are you in a position to assess that for yourself? I sure would like to know what you find.

Now off to read the PDF.

Later: oh good heavens, will read it later today.

Br Cornelius, on 30 September 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

You obviously didn't try very hard. This is the paper which kicked it all off and its about 110yrs old at this stage;

www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf

Hardly a radical new theory then.

Br Cornelius

Edited by regeneratia, 30 September 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[regeneratia]

I generally do not purchase mindsets. Would you like me to present some good reading for you? OK. will do.

Doug1o29, on 30 September 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

The artcile referenced by Br. Cornelius was the beginning.  If you're looking for one single article or book that lays it all out in one neat package, I am not aware of one.  Perhaps Br. Cornelius can furnish us with a bibliography.  Here is one I found on my first try:

http://scholar.googl...iodt=1,37&hl=en

It has 170 articles, not all of which are directly relevant.  But a great many are.

Any of us would have to do literature searches to find a good sample of what's available.  Most climatologists are not inclined to do this for the casual reader, who is perfectly able to do it themselves, and may not be inclined to spend as much time reading as it took to compile the list.  Besides, by the time I finished putting one together, it would be obsolete.

I suggest you get a copy of Michael Mann's "The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars:  Dispatches from the Front Lines."  Find the appropriate chapter and type each sentence, one at a time into Google Scholar.  From each run, pick four or five papers that seem to bear on your questions and read them.  Then do the same with the next sentence.  By the time you finish, you'll know more about human causes of global warming than some climatologists.

Happy reading.
Doug

[regeneratia]

http://www.eurekaler...c-css071912.php
Colorful science sheds light on solar heating

Just some links to let you see. I will not be able to find all the important ones, but  I will indeed try. And also you can find some of them I have placed on this site as well,... by searching something like climate change or solar  or sun. I watch the sun daily. Getting a CME coming in soon, sometime today if not now, not earth-stopping tho.


Dams impact carbon dynamics in U.S. rivers
http://www.eurekaler...u-ajh073112.php

http://www.naturalclimatechange.us/ I don't do extreme right-slanted thinking, so if this is right, it is not something I know about. FYI, I am a moderate. Conservative & socailly liberal.

CIA Says Global-Warming Intelligence Is ‘Classified’
By David Kravets Email Author
September 22, 2011 | 3:49 pm |
Categories: The Ridiculous, politics http://www.wired.com...g-intelligence/

More to come on this post.

http://www.physorg.c...e.html#firstCmt
Climate sensitivity to CO2 more limited than extreme projections: research

http://www.eurekaler...u-dtn080712.php
Yale University
Diseased trees new source of climate gas
Diseased trees in forests may be a significant new source of methane that causes climate change, according to researchers at the Yale School of Forestry & Environmental Studies in Geophysical Research Letters.



Solar System Passing Through Interstellar Cloud
December 23, 2009
http://www.redorbit....rstellar_cloud/
Just one article on brief search that can influence our climate temps.

http://www.redorbit....alaxy-recently/
“Astronomers believe that invisible satellites made of dark matter may be more at risk of colliding with the Milky Way than visible satellite galaxies.
“Future astronomical programs, such as the space-based Gaia Mission, will be able to map out the vertical perturbations in our galaxy in unprecedented detail,” Widrow said in the release. “That will offer a strong test of our findings.”


http://www.redorbit....evealed-081012/
More Than A Million Years of Climate History Revealed
August 10, 2012
(Last Paragraph)
“Any uncertainty about the Earth’s climate system fuels the sense that we don’t really know how the climate is behaving, either in response to natural effects or those which are man-made,” Professor Elderfield added. “If we can understand how earlier changes were initiated and what the impacts were, we stand a much better chance of being able to predict and prepare for changes in the future.”
redOrbit (http://s.tt/1kwJC)

Believe me, it is just easier to sit on the fence on this issue. But I have almost since a child believed in polar shifts and geomagnetic reversals.

Hmmm! Good thing I am taking no sides and holding my own opinion.
Investigation Into Climate Change Report Concludes, Scientists Claim Persecution
August 14, 2012
Brett Smith for redOrbit.com – Your Universe Online
A two-year federal investigation into a climate change report by a pair of government scientists has finally concluded, but the results are being withheld, according to their lawyer.
The conclusion of the investigation is the latest episode in an on-going saga that has included charges of “integrity issues” with the report and the pair of scientists alleging persecution within the Department of the Interior (DOI).
redOrbit (http://s.tt/1kPgB)


http://www.nature.co...eats-up-1.11350
Species multiply as Earth heats up
Biodiversity increases with gentle warming.
Richard Lovett
03 September 2012

Edited by regeneratia, 30 September 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[MID]

regeneratia, on 30 September 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Climate Change issues are leading to the attempted enslavement of people all over the world.


The green movement is leading us into more government control. Very scary!!
I do not want to be enslaved!! I will die free.
http://www.democrats...om/videos.html

I think you're grasping the essence of the whole climate change movement exactly!



Larger government, government controls...exactly.  Oh yes, and fear...the greatest implement to power and control there is!

[regeneratia]

Will start a new post for this:

http://noc.ac.uk/new...nd-ancient-past


Weird: Wichita Temps Jump 20 Degrees At Midnight
Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/...l#ixzz1OoDGFlBD

Calculations of 100 years ago need to be reassessed.
Public release date: 13-Sep-2012
http://www.eurekaler...u-wht091112.php
Arizona State University
World’s hottest temperature cools a bit
Team of meteorologists overturn a reading from 90 years ago and make Death Valley the holder of the world’s hottest temperature
IMAGE: This is a drawing of the Six-Bellini thermometer. Image supplied by Paolo Brenni, President of the Scientific Instrument Commission, and courtesy of Library of the Observatorio Astronomico Di Palermo, Gisuseppe…
Click here for more information.

The sun indeed has some influence on the earth.
Electromagnetic Pulse Could Knock Out U.S. Power Grid
Sept. 13, 2012
By Kedar Pavgi
http://www.nti.org/g...-us-power-grid/
Nextgov.com

Press Release 11-059
Antarctic Icebergs Play a Previously Unknown Role in Global Carbon Cycle, Climate
Passage of icebergs through surface waters changes their physical and biological characteristics
http://nsf.gov/news/...g=NSF&from=news
Tour “Iceberg Alley” in this photo gallery.
Credit and Larger Version
March 25, 2011
View the photo gallery “A Trip Down Iceberg Alley.”
In a finding that has global implications for climate research, scientists have discovered that when icebergs cool and dilute the seas through which they pass for days, they also raise chlorophyll levels in the water that may in turn increase carbon dioxide absorption in the Southern Ocean.

Shall I stop?

----------------------------

Just so you know the concern for global enslavement is not a partisan issue.

MID, on 30 September 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

I think you're grasping the essence of the whole climate change movement exactly!



Larger government, government controls...exactly.  Oh yes, and fear...the greatest implement to power and control there is!

Edited by regeneratia, 30 September 2012 - 07:32 PM.

[Br Cornelius]

regeneratia, on 30 September 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Climate Change issues are leading to the attempted enslavement of people all over the world.

http://www.democrats...unagenda21.com/
Fight UN Agenda 21. An agenda that encourages loss of sovereignty and mandates global governance.
"SOUNDS LIKE SCIENCE FICTION...OR SOME CONSPIRACY THEORY...BUT IT ISN'T.
UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is implemented worldwide to inventory and control all land, all water, all minerals, all plants, all animals, all construction, all means of production, all information, and all human beings in the world. INVENTORY AND CONTROL." i.e. Public control of land use.

The green movement is leading us into more government control. Very scary!!
I do not want to be enslaved!! I will die free.
http://www.democrats...om/videos.html

“What can we do about it.OK, I get it. What now? What can I do?
AWARENESS IS THE FIRST STEP IN THE RESISTANCE”
http://www.democrats...t-can-i-do.html"


This is the time to fight Agenda 21, because it is in the initial stages. Time to take a stand. This is about enslavement and trail-of-tears stuff, guys, without concerning matters of genetics and cultures.
Be that person in the resistance.

You just lost all your credibility in that last rant - good work in proving that climate change deniers have a tendency to conspiracy theorists. That's really all that needs to be discussed at this time since you are obviously immune to actual evidence.

I wasted my time.

Br Cornelius

[Br Cornelius]

regeneratia, on 30 September 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

I did indeed try hard a couple of years ago. I must not have know exactly how to get to the report. Thank you.
I have yet to read it. But I have read that the calculations in that research were faulty. Are you in a position to assess that for yourself? I sure would like to know what you find.

Now off to read the PDF.

Later: oh good heavens, will read it later today.

The estimate was the best one possible at the time. It has been revised since better evidence has been available. What is important is the science has been worked on for over a hundred years been refined at every stage.

If you failed to find this (which is climate change 101) you were obviously looking in all the wrong places. I suspect you have actually read nothing but climate deniers blogs since that is the impression you convey from the way you parrot all the old and easily discredited denialists lines.

Br Cornelius

[regeneratia]

I always assumed I never had credibility, dear. How could I lose it if I never had it? It is not something that can be given to me externally anyway.
But you use the word "denier" which means that you are thinking someone else's thoughts and words while not picking many of your own. And I will continue to discuss as I desire. You are not powerful enough to silence me. But you sure do use the tired old ploy of condescention and ridicule, don't you? Which I believe totally obliterates what you have to say.

You don't have to ridicule people just because you see things differently. Sometimes it is a sign of respect to allow people to think what they want without all the ridicule. Will you soon be able to learn that lesson?

Doug doesn't do that, use ridicule. Doug rocks! He allows for differences.

Many times, it is a waste of time to be here anyway. I think that you waste your time on other things. So feeling bad about reading me should not be all that concerning.

Br Cornelius, on 30 September 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

You just lost all your credibility in that last rant - good work in proving that climate change deniers have a tendency to conspiracy theorists. That's really all that needs to be discussed at this time since you are obviously immune to actual evidence.

I wasted my time.

Br Cornelius

Edited by regeneratia, 30 September 2012 - 08:46 PM.

[regeneratia]

Oh I get it, it is an attack session today. Well dear, have at. I can take it.

Your assumtiopns are wrong. I go directly to the science research release sites. But I will never convince you of that so... think what you want.

But your insulting does get me to wondering just who you are and why you are feeling a burning hot need to ridicule me.

Br Cornelius, on 30 September 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

The estimate was the best one possible at the time. It has been revised since better evidence has been available. What is important is the science has been worked on for over a hundred years been refined at every stage.

If you failed to find this (which is climate change 101) you were obviously looking in all the wrong places. I suspect you have actually read nothing but climate deniers blogs since that is the impression you convey from the way you parrot all the old and easily discredited denialists lines.

Br Cornelius

Edited by regeneratia, 30 September 2012 - 08:50 PM.

[regeneratia]

My thoughts on that pdf, btw. If they are recalculating the old research on the oldest hottest spot on earth, maybe the research in the pdf needs to be reassessed as well.

[regeneratia]

What I don't see with you anthropomorph climate changers is the tree-planting campaigns. Why do you suppose that is? I plant one to two, sometimes more, trees a year. And many I let grow as volunteers.

http://www.eurekaler...s-nss100511.php
http://www.eurekaler...u-fpt011008.php
http://www.eurekaler...su-cr091709.php
http://www.eurekaler...g-uru091003.php
http://www.eurekaler...c-nft121404.php
http://www.eurekaler...s-gpr071812.php
http://www.eurekaler...a-tgp010603.php
http://www.eurekaler...t-crs080409.php

There is more if you want it.

Again I state I agree with the remedies for climate change for far different reasons.

Edited by regeneratia, 30 September 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[Br Cornelius]

Regeneratia, When you are capable of acknowledging that you have made a factual error,  such as you did with your claims about the ice age and the planetary warming around the solar system, you will have shown that you are here to learn from your mistakes and then a real discussion can begin. If you can acknowledge that you are mistaken in the evidence you are basing your overall position on - it would then be credible to believe that you might be persuaded that your overall position is wrong.
Until that time you need no help in making yourself look ridiculous.

By the way I am a scientist and have researched climate science in an informed but informal way for over 5years now. I started out very much like yourself, a sceptic, but the more I read the more I realized that the science is more than sound.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 30 September 2012 - 09:41 PM.