The Grigori

[Ashley-Star*Child]

For those that don't know the Grigori used to be the Watchers/Irin Qaddism, one of the highest orders of angels in Heaven. The 4 that are left unfallen form the twin judgement angels (2 accusing 2 defense) of God's law courts and God does NOTHING without first consulting them. 200 of the Watchers fell as per Enoch cast themselves out with an oath/curse and married human women (Genesis 6, Jubilees, Enoch 1, 2 & 3, Dead Sea Scrolls (Book of Watchers) etc) and created the giants/Nephilim (Genesis 6, Jubilees, Enoch 1 2 & 3, Testament of Solomon, etc), and gave humanity the secrets of Heaven, such things as medicine, drug abuse (Cocaine, etc), magic (black and white), removal of magic, reading and writing, beer, make-up especially eyeliner and mascara, rouge and lipstick, abortion, meteorlogy, astrology, astronomy, fetal development, the innefible name of God, etc.

They were bound hand and foot and blinded, in the pits of the Earth, then in the 5th Heaven turned angel prisonhouse for 7000 years, then on Pluto the angels hell for 2000 years (Heaven is in space) equalling 9 of Heaven's days all up. A prophecy says these angels will 'heal the Earth they plagued and briong life back to her - the Earth'. Enoch told that from a dream he had that no petition will be heard for them for all eternity even though they wept and cried, and they shall no longer be able to lift their eyes up to Heaven. Their punishment was worse than satan's.

So, should they be punished, or forgiven? It was afterall HUMAN'S complaints against them as they cried to the gates of Heaven that caused this severe punishment. The souls of their children became demons. Man didn't exactly go away unscathed either. The flood was brought about to destroy the Nephilim, and wipe out humanity bar 8 people. The reason only 8 people were saved is because they were the ONLY line (Enoch's line to Noah) that were not interbred with either angels or Nephillim. That line actually inbred with each other. Also the reason for bringing only God a few pairs of every God created animal was because the Nephilim (not the angels though) actually started mixing with animals creating further hybrids through misgocnation. Some Nephilim survived, Gilgamesh was one of them. These Nephilim drank blood and ate human flesh - even the flesh of each other. They were monsters. But did the angels realize what they were to create?

Edited February 22, 2007 by Ashley-Star*Child

[Ashley-Star*Child]

Ok, who voted no...own up... .....

[nohands]

i cant relate

but i forgive them

peace..

[Celumnaz]

Voted "I Don't Know" (Not I don't care)

I'm not in a position to judge. From my physically limited perspective, it seems easy to forgive... but I'm positive there's more to the story and I'm fairly positive we won't know all the little details until we've moved into the spirit realm, and Then, I wonder if it would have any substantive meaning to us anymore at that point.

Another thing I wonder, is how to keep myself from repeating a similar mistake they made. To fall from such a lofty state... have had the thought I'd rather be a lobotomized servant for God, with no will, than to have a will and live in eternal torment... and relate that to say, a guitar string being fulfilled when strummed and vibrating. I could live with being a source of music, singing songs of creation.

[Caana]

One of the most common misconceptions is that they desired human females. That is not so, they found them repulsive, as they thought of the entirety of the manbeasts. They were'nt thrown down into the pit of the earth because they had perverted ideas about humanity{which, by the way, was'nt the same as today} They were thrown down because they would'nt accept them and wanted to destroy them.

They were forced to mate with the creatures called female, enoch's moses line was'nt pure, it was defective. There were more then the angels and other empty creatures religious terminology used roaming about in those times{which are no different as far as lunacy} There were other humans who wanted to destroy the abomination called mankind, as mankind was made to mock the image of themselves, even to the division which had been thrown into the design of the manbeasts{females}

Though sex and shareing is quite common amoung them all, the idea of having sex with something that would carry another life was repulsive, the other humans would use the energy from themselves outside themselves to create another person. Manbeast was apt terminology to describe the defective line of moses. As humans go they were quite ugly, and have been progressively so since. All you have to do is look at middleaged naked humans of this time to see the resemblence to what you call the lesser beasts here.

As far as punishment and forgiveness, they may have had no control over the harm caused them called punishment, but they do control themselves and would throw any forgiveness back at you, as they need no ones forgiveness for being themselves. That i think is the crux here. What people here fail to realize due to religious virus infection. Everyone is so used to apoligizeing for being themselves here. You don't have to. No changeing yourself to suit others, that is for slaves or those who choose to emulate them, even if their being tortured.

The one's behind your concept of a god, the one's who invented it, use it to cover themselves, as they have no qaums about sex and shareing themselves, they laugh at the religious manbeasts who have decided to force the idea on the rest of you that non sex will make you pure, you are already what you are and thats as pure as your going to get. They rest is a traversity of horror{religion}

[Ashley-Star*Child]

There is absolutely to textual backup for what you claim Caana. Actually it goes quite the opposite way. Enoch 1:6 'And in those days, when the daughters of men had multiplied, it happened that there were born unto them handsome and beautiful daughters. And the Angels, the children of Heaven, saw them and desired them; and they said to one another, "Come let us choose wives for ourselves from among the daughers of men and beget us children." And Shemahazai, being their leader said unto them "I fear that perhaps you willl not consent that this deed should be done, and I alone will become (responsible) for this great sin." But they all responded to him, "Let us all swear by an oath and bind everyone among us by a curse not to abandon this suggestion but to do this deed." Then they all swore together and bound one another by (the curse). And they were altogether 200; and they descended into Ardos, which is the summit of Mount Hermon (Mount Hermon means 'accursed mountion' or the cursed mountain and is in Golan Heights in Israel a popular skii area). And they called the area Mount Armon, for they swore and bound one another by a curse."

The Oath was this: Handed to Michael from 'the evil one' who gave it to the 200 angels

1Enoch 69:16 These are the secrets of the Oath - and they are sustained by the Oath.

The Heaven was suspended before the creation of the world; and forever!

By it the Earth is founded upon the waters, from the hidden places of the mountains come beautiful waters, from the beginning of creation and forever!

By that oath, the sea was created; and he put down for it a foundation of sand which cannot be transgressed at a time of it's anger, from the beginning of creation and forever!

And by that oath the depths are made firm; they stand still and do not move from their places from the beginning of creation and forever!

By that same oath the sun and moon complete their courses of travel and do not deviate from the laws made for them, from the beginning of creation and forever!

And by the same oath the stars complete their courses of travel; if they call their names, he causes them to respond from the beginning of creation and forever!

Likewise the waters and their souls, all the winds and their paths of travel from all the directions of the winds, the voice of the thunder and the light of the lightning are kept there; the reservoirs of hail, the reservoirs of frost, the reservoirs of mist, the reservoirs of rain and dew are kept there,

All these believe and give thanks in the presence of the Lord of the Spirits;

they glorify with all their might, and please him in all this thanksgiving;

they shall thank, glorify, exalt the Lord of the Spirits forever and ever!

This oath has become dominant over them; they are preserved by it and their paths are preserved by it so that their courses of travel do not perish.

Then there came to them a great joy. And they blessed, glorified, and extolled the Lord on account of the fact that the name of that Son of Man was revealed to them. He shall never pass away or perish from the Earth.

Etc. Yes I wrote it all out myself from the book

Furthermore, Michael conversed with Raphael over the severity of the punishment of the angels and said "The power of the spirit grabs me and causes me to go up on account of the severity of the judgement concerning the knowledge of the secrets. Who is able to endure the severity of the judgement which has been executed and before which one melts away?" and "Who is he whose heart does not become soft in respect to this matter and whose reins do not become stirred up from the word of the judgement which has been pronounced against them." He later went on to say that neither a man nor an angel should be assigned this judgement.

Not only this but God had to explain to the angels WHY wives were not made for them.

Now there is also another account which shows that Shemhazai was overcome with lust for a girl named Ishtar. He said to her "Obey me!" in repsect to a sexual matter and she refused, then she agreed if he gave her the ineffible name of God, to which when she got it ascended to the throne of God and went away unscathed.

Also a few other points:

1. They didn't have to MARRY women, but they did

2. They didn't have to give women the secrets of Heaven, but they did

3. When Shemahazai actually DID marry even though his punsihment had already been pronounced, when he heard of what was to come (the flood) he flew his wife to another planet (Heaven obviously) to save her. He didn't HAVE to do that.

4. They could have had harems of wives like people were doing then, but they didn't they each chose ONE wife for themselves

Furthermore, the angels did NOT hate humanity (satan did, HE is the one who refused to bow to Adam) as Adam and Eve were created a SECOND KIND OF ANGEL. Adam was originally adronygous like ALL angels are (yes, that's right they're NOT genderless, they're BOTH male and female, but predominantly male) when God created Eve from Adam he was the first angel to have a counterpart made from his feminine side, and he was split. So the reason the angels found women attractive is because they were not all that much different from themselves.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Ashley-Star*Child

[Ashley-Star*Child]

And just another bit of trivia, it was stated that the angels 'privy members were like horses'. SO I don't think they had any problem desiring women.

It's also stated in the NT about this account that the angels 'lusted after strange flesh'.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Ashley-Star*Child

[Caana]

My point was that what you write came from books. Books that have been delibrately altered to reflect what the manbeasts of the times wanted to believe, they could'nt deal with what they really were, as well with the unwavering hatred of those you call names they would laugh at, right before they would destroy you for the insults.

What you know of today is fabricated crap.

Though it is still an interesting story, however false.

You write far better then i.

[Ashley-Star*Child]

No, it is not false. At least I'm going by historical text you're going solely from your own opinion which isn't credible.

[Caana]

No, it is not false. At least I'm going by historical text you're going solely from your own opinion which isn't credible.

How do you think knowledge and history was stored before the easily currupted things you call books came about? Historical text was first written and then changed by the one's who thought they themselves could manipulate history, as they do today. It would be no different if the ruling class found out the deli lamha was a pedifile. They would not want anyone to know, do you think they would want that in their history? Thats just an example.

The minds of humans were delibrately downgraded so the memory could be claimed to be unreliable. So what i'm discussing could come to pass, along with shortened lifespans, it would'nt do for large numbers of people to call out a lie written in a book claimed as historical text.

And it's not my opinion the things i write are coming from, it's my mind. I don't, nor have i ever thought of these things before 5 yrs ago. They are just there. When i read your post the images and knowledge i wrote just came into my mind, i don't think or force them, nor do i put my own interpitation on them, they are just things i know, part of the reason i'm a recluse, i see the lie of life here, what you call history.

And just to ask, why would'nt anyones opinion be credable?

Now this is actually my own opinion, its because from birth to death here, people are made to believe they are insignificent, that they could'nt possably know such things, thats for the so called proffessionals of goverment, whose sole duty's is to fool the populace. For this last line you may blast me if you will, but i am not wrong.

[NiCkC818]

Don't want to sound mean, or be intolerant of other's beliefs or in anyway mean... but cmon... does anyone REALLY believe this? I mean, my mouth is literally jaw dropped.. I mean.. dragons are more real than this. No offense to anyone though.

If the Book of Enoch was real, why wasn't it included in the bible?

Edited February 24, 2007 by NiCkC818

[pintsized]

Not only this but God had to explain to the angels WHY wives were not made for them.

Also a few other points:

1. They didn't have to MARRY women, but they did

2. They didn't have to give women the secrets of Heaven, but they did

3. When Shemahazai actually DID marry even though his punsihment had already been pronounced, when he heard of what was to come (the flood) he flew his wife to another planet (Heaven obviously) to save her. He didn't HAVE to do that.

4. They could have had harems of wives like people were doing then, but they didn't they each chose ONE wife for themselves

Hmm, Ashley, could you please elaborate a bit more on why wives weren't made for angels?

So they did all because...I dunno, I'm not getting your emphasis on the "have to" part.. xD

[Ashley-Star*Child]

They weren't made for angels because angels are immortal and have no need to reproduce. They are made for the glorification of God, Sons of God though they may be.

As for why it wasn't included in the Bible rather than make a 10 page essay here I invite you to read my debate on just that in the debates section, Season Two, 4th page.

Caana, you have nothing to back up your claims. Sorry.

[sbradj]

voted no.god passed his judgement..which once he does it is final.

[Fothergill]

For those that don't know the Grigori used to be the Watchers/Irin Qaddism, one of the highest orders of angels in Heaven. The 4 that are left unfallen form the twin judgement angels (2 accusing 2 defense) of God's law courts and God does NOTHING without first consulting them. 200 of the Watchers fell as per Enoch cast themselves out with an oath/curse and married human women (Genesis 6, Jubilees, Enoch 1, 2 & 3, Dead Sea Scrolls (Book of Watchers) etc) and created the giants/Nephilim (Genesis 6, Jubilees, Enoch 1 2 & 3, Testament of Solomon, etc), and gave humanity the secrets of Heaven, such things as medicine, drug abuse (Cocaine, etc), magic (black and white), removal of magic, reading and writing, beer, make-up especially eyeliner and mascara, rouge and lipstick, abortion, meteorlogy, astrology, astronomy, fetal development, the innefible name of God, etc.

They were bound hand and foot and blinded, in the pits of the Earth, then in the 5th Heaven turned angel prisonhouse for 7000 years, then on Pluto the angels hell for 2000 years (Heaven is in space) equalling 9 of Heaven's days all up. A prophecy says these angels will 'heal the Earth they plagued and briong life back to her - the Earth'. Enoch told that from a dream he had that no petition will be heard for them for all eternity even though they wept and cried, and they shall no longer be able to lift their eyes up to Heaven. Their punishment was worse than satan's.

So, should they be punished, or forgiven? It was afterall HUMAN'S complaints against them as they cried to the gates of Heaven that caused this severe punishment. The souls of their children became demons. Man didn't exactly go away unscathed either. The flood was brought about to destroy the Nephilim, and wipe out humanity bar 8 people. The reason only 8 people were saved is because they were the ONLY line (Enoch's line to Noah) that were not interbred with either angels or Nephillim. That line actually inbred with each other. Also the reason for bringing only God a few pairs of every God created animal was because the Nephilim (not the angels though) actually started mixing with animals creating further hybrids through misgocnation. Some Nephilim survived, Gilgamesh was one of them. These Nephilim drank blood and ate human flesh - even the flesh of each other. They were monsters. But did the angels realize what they were to create?

God knows everything Ashley why, does he need to consult anyone?

[Caana]

They weren't made for angels because angels are immortal and have no need to reproduce. They are made for the glorification of God, Sons of God though they may be.

As for why it wasn't included in the Bible rather than make a 10 page essay here I invite you to read my debate on just that in the debates section, Season Two, 4th page.

Caana, you have nothing to back up your claims. Sorry.

With no offense intended, neither do you.

[Ashley-Star*Child]

Well, yes I do Caana I have textual backup. You merely have an opinion, that is neither evidence or credible, it's hearsay.

Fothergill,

Yes, God knows everything but how does that affect God wanting to consult angels for their opinion before making an action? Don't you think it would get a little lonely if you were forced to make the decisions on your own for all eternity? Plus adding someone else's opinion gives an idea of what someone else thinks.

[Caana]

Well, your faith in the accuracy of the text your speaking about, and that includes the bible, is misplaced. But it is what you believe, all the important things are not written on paper or saved to disk, there has never been anything written to go to war over. As none of it is real, only fabricated, which is not only what i believe, but what i have experianced. Your right in that i may be only saying it, or that others who are chained to storys in books are, but the best and truest story's reside in your mind, you just have to get past the layers of deciet placed within it, the layers that cover the truth.

I respect you, so i will stop and let you continue with your thread, thanks for the time.

[Ashley-Star*Child]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

[Fothergill]

Well, yes I do Caana I have textual backup. You merely have an opinion, that is neither evidence or credible, it's hearsay.

Fothergill,

Yes, God knows everything but how does that affect God wanting to consult angels for their opinion before making an action? Don't you think it would get a little lonely if you were forced to make the decisions on your own for all eternity? Plus adding someone else's opinion gives an idea of what someone else thinks.

Thanks Ashley, I see your point, but I would have thought that He knowing everything would know what people think even before they think of it? Take myself for example, God know everything that I am going to do, even though I have the free will to choose what I will do. On the issue of forgiveness, Ashley, would the Grigori be beyond the power of the Divine Mercy?

[Caana]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

Thank you.

[Ashley-Star*Child]

In order for an angel to get redemption they must be incarnated human to have free will to fix their mistakes. They must do it of their own free will which an angel does not normally have. They must aslo go through the lake of fire which is at the footstool of God's throne. No, this does not destroy them, angels are MADE of fire, and they bathe and dip their tongues in this fire. But this fire also acts as a baptism to them, just as humans 'made of clay' are baptised in water, angels made of fire are baptised in fire, and thus become renewed. When Jesus said 'I want to baptise you all in FIRE' he was referring to angels. So, yes they can find redemption and no angel is fallen forever, not even satan.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Ashley-Star*Child

[Fothergill]

In order for an angel to get redemption they must be incarnated human to have free will to fix their mistakes. They must do it of their own free will which an angel does not normally have. They must aslo go through the lake of fire which is at the footstool of God's throne. No, this does not destroy them, angels are MADE of fire, and they bathe and dip their tongues in this fire. But this fire also acts as a baptism to them, just as humans 'made of clay' are baptised in water, angels made of fire are baptised in fire, and thus become renewed. When Jesus said 'I want to baptise you all in FIRE' he was referring to angels. So, yes they can find redemption and no angel is fallen forever, not even satan.

This seems to emply that those in Heaven, can not have free will for if they did they are liable to fall into sin? Your reply seems to imply that Angels do not. Yet earlier you said that God consulted the opinions of the four important Angels? In addition, your statement would also suggest that there might be some angels on this plain of existance, seeking forgivness through the use of their free will. If so how would one see one?

[Ashley-Star*Child]

Well if they're incarnated human they look just like everyone else. It's more a personal path between them and God rather than asking humanity for forgiveness. By free will I mean the ability to choose to love and follow God of that free will something angels don't inherantly have. All angels know God exists, follow and love God and work for God fallen or not. It's their nature, it's how they were made. Humans were made to see 'Who among your race (Adam's) would love or abhor me (God)'. That's what 'free will' really boils down to and the reason humans have it. All angels are capable of making their own decisions but they can't go against God without becoming fallen. Humans go against God every day.

Edited February 27, 2007 by Ashley-Star*Child