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Associated Press Blasts Feds


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#1    QuiteContrary

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:59 AM

AP Blasts Feds for phone records search

http://www.cnn.com/2...ones/index.html

"If the Obama administration is going after reporters' phone records, they better have a damned good explanation"

The subpoenas were disclosed to the news agency on Friday, Pruitt wrote. In all, federal agents collected records from more than 20 lines, including personal phones and AP phone numbers in New York; Hartford, Connecticut; and Washington, he wrote.

"We regard this action by the Department of Justice as a serious interference with AP's constitutional rights to gather and report the news," he told Holder. Pruitt demanded that the department return all records collected and destroy all copies.

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Freedom v National Security?  Are all govts and administrations the same when it comes down to it?

What scares you more? Loss of freedom or threats to our national security? Is their a way to appease both sides?

I don't have any answers. I know my first experience (a taste of it) was a trip to Spain many years ago. I was a teen. There were heavily armed (military? or police?) everywhere. In doorways, on the streets. It was not something I had ever experienced. I realized I really couldn't decide if I felt safer or more threatened. I could not decide. But, I didn't live there either. I was going home where no heavily uniformed men patroled the streets.

I feel the two are related, maybe you don't.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 14 May 2013 - 02:00 AM.


#2    Jessica Christ

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:10 AM

Keep in mind they were going after a leak.

National security is of prime importance and investigations are part of that.


#3    QuiteContrary

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:43 AM

I'm not thinking right or wrong here. I honestly don't know. I'd like to side on National Security too.

But it doesn't sound like the press and some others agree. At the very least, they are concerned with this tactic taken by the govt.

"The burden is always on the government when they go after private information -- especially information regarding the press or its confidential sources," said Leahy, D-Vermont. "I want to know more about this case, but on the face of it, I am concerned that the government may not have met that burden."

Was there another way?
Each case has to be judged individually? But does that happen? Is it even possible if under threat?

It doesn't sound to me like serious threats  gives any time for "should we or shouldn't we?"

And where do you draw the line? We keep our "privacy" and freedoms unless...

Edited by QuiteContrary, 14 May 2013 - 02:51 AM.


#4    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:50 AM

Whenever people say "for national security" I hear "Deuchland Deuchland ich bien alles...".
Journalists are protected by one of those vaunted Amendments you Americans hold in such regard until it's inconvenient. You either have a free press or you don't. Saying "we want to know where this leak came from, so we're going to piddle on your freedoms" isn't a free press.

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I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#5    QuiteContrary

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:54 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 14 May 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Whenever people say "for national security" I hear "Deuchland Deuchland ich bien alles...".
Journalists are protected by one of those vaunted Amendments you Americans hold in such regard until it's inconvenient. You either have a free press or you don't. Saying "we want to know where this leak came from, so we're going to piddle on your freedoms" isn't a free press.

Is it different Downunder? Can you explain more?


#6    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:01 AM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 14 May 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

Is it different Downunder? Can you explain more?
Our journos are hauled in front of Parliamentary Commissions and the industry Ombudsman all the time.
Hell, IIRc one of the "big name" journos is in trouble for "doorstepping" (for want of a better word) a rape victim on radio.

But very rarely if ever do we get the government covertly going after their sources etc, when they do it's done openly and in court and then the journos trot off to gaol for a quick holiday courtesy of their morals.

Besides, we don't have a free press - we have a Murdoch Press :P Our press has strict rules to follow and the like and "not having to reveal your sources" isn't IIRC one of those rules.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#7    QuiteContrary

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:15 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 14 May 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

Our journos are hauled in front of Parliamentary Commissions and the industry Ombudsman all the time.
Hell, IIRc one of the "big name" journos is in trouble for "doorstepping" (for want of a better word) a rape victim on radio.

But very rarely if ever do we get the government covertly going after their sources etc, when they do it's done openly and in court and then the journos trot off to gaol for a quick holiday courtesy of their morals.

Besides, we don't have a free press - we have a Murdoch Press :P Our press has strict rules to follow and the like and "not having to reveal your sources" isn't IIRC one of those rules.

Thanks.
Do you truly believe "it's done openly and in court". Not second guessing you, I just have no idea what goes on politically down under.
How much National Security threats do you experience there?
Does Australia have a "CIA" or  "NSA"  so to speak? Does it get in hot water and float in controversy like ours do?
"doorstepping" not sure what that is?


#8    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:22 AM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 14 May 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

Thanks.
Do you truly believe "it's done openly and in court". Not second guessing you, I just have no idea what goes on politically down under.
This is Australia mate, if anyone here reckons the government's having a go at them they'll be whinging to high heaven.

Quote

How much National Security threats do you experience there?
Mostly down to certain foreign nationals calling us bullies and blowing up bars frequented by Australians overseas.
And the locals calling the government bullies and having a barney (a brawl) on the streets every so often.


Quote

Does Australia have a "CIA" or  "NSA"  so to speak? Does it get in hot water and float in controversy like ours do?
It's called ASIO - Australian Security and Intelligence Organisation IIRC.
Mostly it busts drug smugglers and gets called fascists by the Bikie Gangs.


Quote

"doorstepping" not sure what that is?
it's where less scrupulous reporters don't let people get into a place of safety to avoid their questions - it comes from ambushing people on their doorstep when they're getting up to get their morning papers etc. What John Laws did was ask a rape victim (who was SEVEN at the time) relentlessly if she did anything to trigger the rape, if it was her fault etc etc.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#9    shrooma

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:49 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 14 May 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:



Mostly down to certain foreign nationals calling us bullies and blowing up bars frequented by Australians overseas.

.
y'know sir (and congrats on the recent knighthood btw) I can't imagine anyone thinking of the aussies as 'bullies'.
we've got loads of 'em round here, and all they want to do is work in pubs (they're naturals), get p**sed (again, they're naturals), and have a laugh (see a pattern forming here....?). they tend to be some of the best natured people you could meet!

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#10    Jessica Christ

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:46 AM

If someone is leaking classified information they would be the target of the investigation. Checking up on the APs phone conversations could lead back to the leak. They were not being spied on just for the fun of it.


#11    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:51 AM

if someone is leaking classified documents, you look for the leak - as they're the criminals - not at the press.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#12    QuiteContrary

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:52 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 14 May 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

If someone is leaking classified information they would be the target of the investigation. Checking up on the APs phone conversations could lead back to the leak. They were not being spied on just for the fun of it.

I'd hope not. But politicians and members of the press are questioning their tactic, with that it deserves discussion and consideration, imo.
But I am not assigning accusations or blame, I'm just discussing and questioning.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 14 May 2013 - 04:57 AM.


#13    chopmo

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:36 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 14 May 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

Our journos are hauled in front of Parliamentary Commissions and the industry Ombudsman all the time.
Hell, IIRc one of the "big name" journos is in trouble for "doorstepping" (for want of a better word) a rape victim on radio.

But very rarely if ever do we get the government covertly going after their sources etc, when they do it's done openly and in court and then the journos trot off to gaol for a quick holiday courtesy of their morals.

Besides, we don't have a free press - we have a Murdoch Press :P Our press has strict rules to follow and the like and "not having to reveal your sources" isn't IIRC one of those rules.

Our media is one of the biggest jokes of the world (Australian that is). The stories are consistantly 1/4 truth 3/4 work around, I hate watching/hearing Australian news media. Even to the point if or when the show a full story it is constantly belittled towards one side of the argument in the reporting. We don't having anything lawfully making the media tell a full story not just the interesting bits rewritten into a attention grabber. Even our politics media is pathetic 2 parties that do nothing but b**** and winge at eachother untill voting time then and very little they will acknowledge other parties. It is also constant squabbling.

All in all in Australia terms I think the reporter, news company and corporation should all have to go before the courts if their "news" is found to be false, misleading, slanderous, partial truth. It would make for boring neverending news days thats for sure... or the journalist might think twice about what they report. Same goes for Politicians, if they fail to meet their commitments by the end of their term they should be banished from law and governance.

You can't use the Radio Host/English Hospital Worker Suicide as an example of lawful media. It's a bit different when you have the Queen polishing her sniper rifle off because it stemmed from a Royal engagement, which they (radio hosts) unlawfully (impersonated a royal member) to gain access to information of the Prince of England's wife's hospital condition regarding their child... one would say Juliar would've been grovling on the other end of the phone call almost in a crackwhore fashion.

Don't get me wrong I love my country, I'm just incredibly over the comglomerate "well thats just how it is" attitude we take towards Media and Governance and the two go extremely well hand in hand it's bulls*** that we are belittled by them as the Public.

why is everyone so &^%$ing concerned with "the end"...
new beginnings is what you should be concerned about...

#14    preacherman76

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:22 AM

Government spying is WAY outta control. They just recently admitted every single phone conversation and e-mail written is recorded and filed. Where the hell is the AP on that? Most of our elected should be in prison.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#15    QuiteContrary

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:29 AM

View Postchopmo, on 14 May 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

I'm just incredibly over the comglomerate "well thats just how it is" attitude we take towards Media and Governance and the two go extremely well hand in hand it's bulls*** that we are belittled by them as the Public.

:tsu:





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