150 replies to this topic

[skookum]

Stand by for the NRA 'guns save lives' reaction to this.  Unfortunately to many will buy into it.

[F3SS]

freetoroam, on 30 January 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

I could see that ages ago, but that was not what I was asking from the start, its what the guns owners were saying, I get that. What my question was, was about the multi million dollar company and how people felt about that. Thats what this thread is about, the multi miilion dollar company......saying that, there are so many different threads about guns, things are getting a bit confusing, but this thread IS not about gun laws...period.

Alright. Well I already told you how I felt about big companies doing such things. It's expected. The nature of the beast if you will.

skookum, on 30 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Sorry are you talking about UK or US?

UK = Rare, maybe once every few years with very few casualties
US = seems like a monthly occurrence now with many casualties.

The reason this isn't a huge headline is first no one was killed and second this is hardly a mass shooting. Seems more like someone going postal. Three people getting shot happens all the time. Don't mistake that for our country being Bedlam. It's not. If there are as many as 10,000 negative gun stories in the US news a year that amounts to 1 gun out of every 30,000 guns used wrong. There are 300M guns here. 10,000 is I think 1/300th of a percent of 300M. The odds of getting shot are barely better than getting struck by lighting, hitting the lottery or dying in plane crash.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 30 January 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[Sweetpumper]

-Mr_Fess-, on 30 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

Seems more like someone going postal.

Excellent documentary for those who haven't seen it:

[questionmark]

-Mr_Fess-, on 30 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

Alright. Well I already told you how I felt about big companies doing such things. It's expected. The nature of the beast if you will.


The reason this isn't a huge headline is first no one was killed and second this is hardly a mass shooting. Seems more like someone going postal. Three people getting shot happens all the time. Don't mistake that for our country being Bedlam. It's not. If there are as many as 10,000 negative gun stories in the US news a year that amounts to 1 gun out of every 30,000 guns used wrong. There are 300M guns here. 10,000 is I think 1/300th of a percent of 300M. The odds of getting shot are barely better than getting struck by lighting, hitting the lottery or dying in plane crash.

Lets see, Lotto 1 in 10,068,347,520 (six numbers in a 49 field) ....  lightning 1 in 200,000 and firearm one in 8,227,473... so, not quite...

[DieChecker]

ninjadude, on 30 January 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

and you would be completely wrong.

The U.S. Border Is More Secure Than Ever Before

http://thinkprogress...an-ever-before/

That is fantastic, yet....

If you are at 5% efficency, going to 10% efficency is a great leap, but the efficency still Sucks.

The articles say NET migration is near zero, but that really does not say much. It is due to economic issues in the US not drawing as many people north. Claiming the tighter border did that is like the story of the Tiger Talisman. Where holding the talisman keeps the tigers away. But... since the holder lives in a skyscrapper and rides the subway, he's not likely to encounter any tigers anyway. It is the delusion of claiming X caused Y, and neglecting variables A, B, C, D and E.

[F3SS]

questionmark, on 30 January 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

Lets see, Lotto 1 in 10,068,347,520 (six numbers in a 49 field) ....  lightning 1 in 200,000 and firearm one in 8,227,473... so, not quite...

So you have a better chance at getting hit by lightning than a bullet? Sounds like you're further reinforcing my point. That can't be right.
Anyway, my number of 10,000 was made up.

[questionmark]

-Mr_Fess-, on 30 January 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

So you have a better chance at getting hit by lightning than a bullet? Sounds like you're further reinforcing my point. That can't be right.
Anyway, my number of 10,000 was made up.

I only had all lightning hits involving people in my readily available statistics, that includes people in a house hit by lightning, in a car hit by lightning, directly hit by lightning. It seems to happen much more frequently than we think, it is just much less fatal than we expect.

[Capt Amerika]

freetoroam, on 30 January 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

I am in the UK, you know the place, the place where you can walk out of your front door with out checking you have your car keys, wallet, shopping list and gun.

Odd, i lived in Thetford (Theftford) for two years and had my home broken into twice and my car broken into more times than i can count.
You know what the police call that?
Business as usual.  
Police in the UK ignore crime at that level and it never shows up in statistics.
You know how many times i have had my stuff stolen in the USA in the past 45 years?
Never.
These Gun incidents are isolated and they are done by criminals.
Enforce the laws and stop the criminals.  Problem solved.
America has a grip, our judicial system and Lawyers are the ones responsible for allowing the scum of the nation to get back on the streets.
I see Lindsey Lohan is walking the streets a free woman yet again, not bad for the 20th court appearance.

[Capt Amerika]

ninjadude, on 30 January 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

and you would be completely wrong.

The U.S. Border Is More Secure Than Ever Before

http://thinkprogress...an-ever-before/

and yet this is in the news.....
http://www.cnn.com/v...er-security.cnn

[DieChecker]

Capt Amerika, on 30 January 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

and yet this is in the news.....
http://www.cnn.com/v...er-security.cnn

I think one issue is that Ninja's links don't claim a controlled border. They claim that the crossings have leveled out and dropped some, and that net travel, back and forth is near zero. So as many are illegally crossing the border back into Mexico as are coming north. Which makes sense also, because if you come to the US illegally and make several thousand dollars, or commit robberys, or sell drugs or whatever.... then you have to go Home to Mexico to take advantage of the lower cost of living, or to lay low from the Police, or to sell your stolen goods. So it does make sense, in that a uncontrolled border would have travel both ways.

[freetoroam]

Capt Amerika, on 30 January 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Odd, i lived in Thetford (Theftford) for two years and had my home broken into twice and my car broken into more times than i can count.
You know what the police call that?
Business as usual.  
Police in the UK ignore crime at that level and it never shows up in statistics.
You know how many times i have had my stuff stolen in the USA in the past 45 years?
Never.
These Gun incidents are isolated and they are done by criminals.
Enforce the laws and stop the criminals.  Problem solved.
America has a grip, our judicial system and Lawyers are the ones responsible for allowing the scum of the nation to get back on the streets.
I see Lindsey Lohan is walking the streets a free woman yet again, not bad for the 20th court appearance.

yes, the police are not the fastest to attend in some areas, we have covered this. But its interesting to see that you were broken into twice and a regular victim of car crime and yet you still did NOT need a gun. Had this happened in certain places in the states, it seems that people would have a gun to protect themselves, not that it would help in incidents where you are out when the burglar shows up, chances are they would have found your guns and stolen them...another criminal on the street with a gun, if they did not have one already.
So you see, we can live without guns to protect ourselves, but it makes no difference if you are not there to stop the crime in the first place.
We do have other ways to protect our property, burglar alarms for when we are away and baseball bats for when we are not.
Sorry to hear your stay in England was not spent in a friendlier neighbourhood, I am sure you have unfriendly neighbourhoods in the US too, but although your personal possessions were at risk, at least it was not your life. Difficult to compare a burglary in the UK to a crime in the states when 1 doesn`t have guns and the other does.

[Capt Amerika]

freetoroam, on 31 January 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

yes, the police are not the fastest to attend in some areas, we have covered this. But its interesting to see that you were broken into twice and a regular victim of car crime and yet you still did NOT need a gun. Had this happened in certain places in the states, it seems that people would have a gun to protect themselves, not that it would help in incidents where you are out when the burglar shows up, chances are they would have found your guns and stolen them...another criminal on the street with a gun, if they did not have one already.
So you see, we can live without guns to protect ourselves, but it makes no difference if you are not there to stop the crime in the first place.
We do have other ways to protect our property, burglar alarms for when we are away and baseball bats for when we are not.
Sorry to hear your stay in England was not spent in a friendlier neighbourhood, I am sure you have unfriendly neighbourhoods in the US too, but although your personal possessions were at risk, at least it was not your life. Difficult to compare a burglary in the UK to a crime in the states when 1 doesn`t have guns and the other does.

First of all, i would never shoot a fellow human being for breaking into my car.
Secondly, the thieves broke into my home twice while no one was at home.
If that were to happen here and i was home, the invaders would be shot. period.
The fact that criminals know home owners have guns tends to deter their brazenness towards criminal activity in this country.
In the UK its no big deal because even if the homeowner happens to be home odds are they cant hurt them.
I can tell you straight up, if i was a criminal i would not hesitate to make the UK my home, i would rather go about my activity knowing i was going to be alive at the end of the day than try to pull that off here.
In the USA you better be robbing people you know don't have weapons or death could be the only thing you get for your trouble.

[freetoroam]

Capt Amerika, on 31 January 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

First of all, i would never shoot a fellow human being for breaking into my car.
Secondly, the thieves broke into my home twice while no one was at home.
If that were to happen here and i was home, the invaders would be shot. period.
The fact that criminals know home owners have guns tends to deter their brazenness towards criminal activity in this country.
In the UK its no big deal because even if the homeowner happens to be home odds are they cant hurt them.
I can tell you straight up, if i was a criminal i would not hesitate to make the UK my home, i would rather go about my activity knowing i was going to be alive at the end of the day than try to pull that off here.
In the USA you better be robbing people you know don't have weapons or death could be the only thing you get for your trouble.

Are burglaries rare in the US? genuine question.
Their chances of being shot are very slim here, but it does not mean if the home owner was home the criminal will get out of there with both arms and legs intact.
Many of the burglaries are  not spur of the moment and the burglar has already done his homework on the property, the  burglar will enter the place while the occupant is out, so whether the owner has a gun or not, it will make no difference to the criminal, he will just wait til they go out. The deterant for the burglar is not knowing if the owner has a gun here, its whether the house is alarmed.
As for you making the UK your home if you were a criminal, feel free, but let me know when and please wipe your feet before you even think about going through my back window.....I live on a boat btw.

[Capt Amerika]

freetoroam, on 31 January 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Are burglaries rare in the US? genuine question.
Their chances of being shot are very slim here, but it does not mean if the home owner was home the criminal will get out of there with both arms and legs intact.
Many of the burglaries are  not spur of the moment and the burglar has already done his homework on the property, the  burglar will enter the place while the occupant is out, so whether the owner has a gun or not, it will make no difference to the criminal, he will just wait til they go out. The deterant for the burglar is not knowing if the owner has a gun here, its whether the house is alarmed.
As for you making the UK your home if you were a criminal, feel free, but let me know when and please wipe your feet before you even think about going through my back window.....I live on a boat btw.

So i would have to steal a towel too.

[aztek]

don't wipe your feet, slip and fall, and sue homeowner, you'll most likely win. it happened before, not once