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U.S. Fire Arms laws and regulations

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#166    Purifier

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:32 AM

View Postouija ouija, on 15 December 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Psychological tests only prove that a person is sane at the time of the test! Couple of months down the line the guy loses his job/his wife runs off with his best friend/his brother cheats him out of some money and bingo! He picks up his guns and kills his wife, the best friend, his brother, the ex-boss and then turns the gun on himself.

There is no way of predicting when someone will 'crack' and go on a shooting 'spree', but if there are no guns around then the guy has to think of another way to release his anger and frustration. He might well kill himself but he won't take everyone else out with him.


It's funny you should mention that, we had a guy over here in the U.S. who killed 168 people and injured nearly 800 people. And he didn't even use a gun, he used a truck bomb. Point is, the nutters will find a way. Here's a link in case some of you might not know who I talking about:

http://en.wikipedia....Timothy_McVeigh



And that's how I know trying to eliminate mass killing with gun control will not work in U.S. As I said, the nutters will find a way. Vehicles and bombs, worse killing method compared to a gun.

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#167    Tsukasa

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:06 AM

I have come out of retirement to say one thing then probably go right back into retirement again (Its been a really long time since I was last on).

View PostWearer of Hats, on 16 December 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

At the end of the day, someone dedicated to killing another will find a way - but I've had scissors waved in my face by a student who would have killed me if he got the chance, colleagues have had knives pulled on them etc and we're all still alive because it's hard to kill someone with scissors/knives when they know you're going to come at them with them, you have to get in close to do damage, and that gives the potential victim a window to act - you don't get that with a gun.

One thing in the quote above makes me have to say something.

To think that scissors or knives mean you always get warning before an attack is a bit naive. I have learned in my experiance in Iraq that you can be just as suprised by a knife or other melee weapon as you can with a gun. Just because a melee weapon is hand held does not make it any less dangerous, in fact its more deadly. Its rather easy to miss when you shoot a gun (difficulty increases with range), while it is not hard to miss with a weapon such as a knife, expecialy if you have the element of suprise.

There is literaly nothing the target can do. A lot of people died or got badly injured that way.

I would rather be attacked by a person with a gun (who has a high likelyhood of missing the first shot giving me time to act) then a guy with a knife.


#168    Uncle Sam

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:14 AM

View PostTsukasa, on 16 December 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

I have come out of retirement to say one thing then probably go right back into retirement again (Its been a really long time since I was last on).



One thing in the quote above makes me have to say something.

To think that scissors or knives mean you always get warning before an attack is a bit naive. I have learned in my experiance in Iraq that you can be just as suprised by a knife or other melee weapon as you can with a gun. Just because a melee weapon is hand held does not make it any less dangerous, in fact its more deadly. Its rather easy to miss when you shoot a gun (difficulty increases with range), while it is not hard to miss with a weapon such as a knife, expecialy if you have the element of suprise.

There is literaly nothing the target can do. A lot of people died or got badly injured that way.

I would rather be attacked by a person with a gun (who has a high likelyhood of missing the first shot giving me time to act) then a guy with a knife.

You mean something like this?

China: Man Stabs 22 Children and 1 Adult

A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. - Albert Einstein

#169    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:18 AM

you mean how of those 23 people stabbed none died?
and you'll notice I said "it's hard to kill someone with scossors/knives when they know you're coming at them".

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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#170    Tsukasa

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:23 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 16 December 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

you mean how of those 23 people stabbed none died?
and you'll notice I said "it's hard to kill someone with scossors/knives when they know you're coming at them".

Do you know its hard to kill someone with a gun when they know your coming for them as well?

View PostUncle Sam, on 16 December 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

You mean something like this?

China: Man Stabs 22 Children and 1 Adult

No, not that specific case.

Edited by Tsukasa, 16 December 2012 - 03:28 AM.


#171    Michelle

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:45 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 16 December 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:


Maybe we could marry gun ownership with the other great American industry "therapy", you have to be proven mentally fit each year in order to own a gun - not mentally fit the police will impound your guns until you can prove you are.

Ain't gonna work, doll. When you've got generations, as recently as my grandparents, that depended on them to stay alive. Those guns have been handed down to kids or grandkids that are in their thirties now. They aren't registered and never will be. It wasn't until a relatively short time ago that guns had to be registered. Any guns before that are on more of a don't ask don't tell basis.

The US is saturated in guns. Unless the courts take action on the criminals, shooting people and robbing convenience stores at gunpoint, no one is going to take any threat of real punishment seriously, because their gun isn't registered.


#172    Uncle Sam

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:37 AM

The Gun Control people are trying to already capitalize on this even though the victims haven't got the chance to grieve yet or all the facts are known. How I lose faith in humanity...

Gun control Movement Tries to Shed Election Losing Reputation

A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. - Albert Einstein

#173    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:03 AM

View PostUncle Sam, on 16 December 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

The Gun Control people are trying to already capitalize on this even though the victims haven't got the chance to grieve yet or all the facts are known. How I lose faith in humanity...

Gun control Movement Tries to Shed Election Losing Reputation
there's been a lot of faith in humanity lost over the last couple of days, courtesy of all sides of the divide.
Which is sad, as it may actually take us away from the core of the issue - their grief and how we help them.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

You may think you're cool, but you'll never be as cool as Peter Capaldi with an electric guitar, on a tank, playing the Doctor Who theme.

#174    aztek

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:56 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 15 December 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

You know, I think there's a "sticking with the 2nd Amendment" way of addressing the issues of the ease of access to guns.
You actually have to be a member of a militia - or the 21st century version of a militia which we could call "a gun club". You're not a member? No guns for you.
actually according to ussc it is totally opposite.

“The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia.”

Edited by aztek, 16 December 2012 - 07:01 AM.

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#175    aztek

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 07:04 AM

View PostMaizer, on 15 December 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:



The Second Amendment was outdated 90 years ago, and its time for a change.
it has. no more confusing militia, organized or not, it is just ppl now. so we can drop all interpretations of 2nd.

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#176    Bonecrusher

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

View Postouija ouija, on 15 December 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Psychological tests only prove that a person is sane at the time of the test! Couple of months down the line the guy loses his job/his wife runs off with his best friend/his brother cheats him out of some money and bingo! He picks up his guns and kills his wife, the best friend, his brother, the ex-boss and then turns the gun on himself.

There is no way of predicting when someone will 'crack' and go on a shooting 'spree', but if there are no guns around then the guy has to think of another way to release his anger and frustration. He might well kill himself but he won't take everyone else out with him.
I have to say if all these things happened to the poor feller he's bound to be a powder keg about to explode.
So why can't we nip it in the bud by starting these pscyological tests early and see if's there any indications.
Because it's usually teenagers that do these atrocities and I can assure you it has nothing to do with losing your wife and job.
I'm sure it'll come out that he's either been bullied ,his home circumstances are chronic or even the fact that his parents are getting divorced.
If there's no guns theres always bombs and if there's neither any other weapon would be rendered obsolete.
How far is a lunatic going to get with just a knife for company in a crowd of people.
It won't be long before some brave soul decides to disarm him.

Edited by Medium Brown, 16 December 2012 - 08:35 AM.

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#177    Black Red Devil

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:24 AM

View PostDrayno, on 15 December 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

In the US Constitution there are implied powers and expressed powers. For instance, Congress has the expressed power to declare war.

US citizens have the implied power, under the second amendment, to own private firearms, because they have the expressed power to form militias. If US citizens didn't have any private firearms, how would they begin to form the militia - which is comprised entirely of normal, everyday, private citizens banding together for the express purpose of extraditing tyranny? Do you see what I mean? If the reliance on the state national guard is shattered, the people must fend for themselves using the powers granted to them by the US Constitution, via the powers granted to them via the second amendment.

Interesting point.  The militia,

Quote

Legal and historical meanings of militia include:
  • Defense activity or service, to protect a community, its territory, property, and laws.[3]
  • The entire able-bodied population of a community, town, county, or state, available to be called to arms.
    • A subset of these who may be legally penalized for failing to respond to a call-up.
    • A subset of these who actually respond to a call-up, regardless of legal obligation.
  • A private, non-government force, not necessarily directly supported or sanctioned by its government.
  • An official reserve army, composed of citizen soldiers. Called by various names in different countries such as; the Army Reserve, National Guard, or state defense forces.
  • A select militia is composed of a small, non-representative portion of the population,[4] often politicized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia

Out of the top examples of a militia group, the only ones I would consider having the slightest, SLIGHTEST possibility of winning a minor scuffle against a motley crew of Regular Army troops (and lets forget for the moment the other Governmental military branches such as the Navy and Air Force), would be the Army Reserve, National Guard and State Defense Force and all three are on call and activated by the US Government when natural disasters or an upraise occurs.  So there goes your major militia trump card.

Seriously, there is no way in the world any militia could overthrow the US Government.  Not in this day and age.  Not unless they have full military support in which case the coup e'tat would be mostly due to the military force changing alliances, not the militia.

Don't kid yourselves, it's because you guys like your toys, not because of the second amendment.

In the mean time the school massacres will continue.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 16 December 2012 - 10:27 AM.

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#178    mysticwerewolf

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:48 AM

wasn't there a story a couple weeks back about someone who went on a killing spree with a bow and arrows? I seem to remember several dead including the archer.

  yes i like my guns, and my bow, and my crossbow, and throwing knives and my swords and my staff i use them for hunting and for excersize and just for fun  and punishing me for what some mentally ill kids does with stolen weapons is neither fair nor the answer.

Edited by mysticwerewolf, 16 December 2012 - 10:54 AM.


#179    musk

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:56 AM

the only way america can fix this is if all the parents get off there asses and march to the white house to demand that guns be illegal or have tougher laws because obviously this isnt going to go away, over the last 10 years how many tragedies have there been involving guns or terror now we all know that the rich rule the government and the nra have there hands in some pockets and obviously obama doesnt have the balls to do this on his own or make that decision, our prime minister john howard made the ban back in the late 90's after the port arthur massacre and ever since then are gun crimes have been low still gun crimes but no massacres like the us have nearly every damn year. nothing will be done or changed and it will only get worse unless everybody works together to make a stand if they can do that then nobody not even the richest people can stop it or change it, people power does work you just need to make the people believe that it can be done. the right to bear arms is a horrible law that was only made for white people because they were scared of the repercussions of what they did to africans when they freed them and look at the state of the country now always getting bombed shot up murdered always something deadly because of these laws and how nobody does anything. THE ONLY WAY THIS WILL CHANGE IS IF YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!! not just by liking a page on facebook but getting all the parents together all the families to support each other to fight it otherwise this **** is gonna keep happening more and more reguarly i mean look at how close this massacre is to the last one in the cinema soon it will be more and more closer and there wont be anything you can do about it cause you sat on your ass hoping that it will change itself. you dont need guns nobody needs guns, guns are made for killing thats it thats what they were designed and made for why make guns to kill when there are more important things to make


#180    Dan'O

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:32 AM

You can not punish millions of law abiding gun owners for what this guy did.

And in reference to militia in the 2nd it is not just about some potential, huge, and organized movement. The founding fathers very much knew of the tyrannies of governments and saw far into the future of even their own, new government. Having come from tyranny they knew a armed populace could not be easily terrorized and run roughshod over by even a future US government and in making the 2nd, made certain that that would not happen. And this very much falls into the realm of being able to protect one's home and family at a core level and is supported by the Supreme Court.

http://caselaw.lp.fi...on/amendment02/

The Court reasoned that the Amendment's prefatory clause, i.e.,"[a] well regulated
Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," announced the Amendment's purpose, but did not limit or expand the scope of the operative clause, i.e., "the
right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."





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