4027 replies to this topic

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 30 November 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Folkspraak (FS) is an International Auxiliary Language that is currently in development.

Great initiative!

OLB can serve as a rich source of inspiration, because whether one believes in its authenticity or not, its language is somewhere between German, English, Dutch and 'Scandinavian'.

[Otharus]

Otharus, on 29 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

De betsjutnis fan Tsjut's namme
(the meaning of Thoth's name)

BTW the 'correct' Frysk (New-Frisian) word is betsjutting (meaning, significance, importance); Dutch: betekenis; German: Bedeutung.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 30 November 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Great initiative!

OLB can serve as a rich source of inspiration, because whether one believes in its authenticity or not, its language is somewhere between German, English, Dutch and 'Scandinavian'.

Not only that, I really thought that someone had done just that and for exactly the same reason you mentioned.

So I looked around using every kind of name in use for this conlang (Volkspraak - Volksprak - Folkspraak - Folksprak and many more), but I didn't find anyone using the OLB as a source.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 30 November 2012 - 04:57 PM.

[Otharus]

Otharus, on 30 November 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

Dutch: betekenis; German: Bedeutung.

That should have been:

Deutsch: Bedeutung.

A more original spelling of Dutch and Deutsch would be Diutisc or Theodisk.

~

I wonder if the French verb dire (to say) is related too: il a dit = he has said

Latin verb dictare = dictate

Dutch verb dichten = write poetry, verse

etc.

[Otharus]

Otharus, on 30 November 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

A more original spelling of Dutch and Deutsch would be Diutisc or Theodisk.

And I hope you see this link too:

DEVS / DEA (latin) = θεός / θεά (greek) = god (-dess)

[Abramelin]

I see it: Deu Tuist/Tuisc.

"God Tuisc".

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Edited by Abramelin, 30 November 2012 - 10:01 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 30 November 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

That should have been:

Deutsch: Bedeutung.

A more original spelling of Dutch and Deutsch would be Diutisc or Theodisk.

~

I wonder if the French verb dire (to say) is related too: il a dit = he has said

Latin verb dictare = dictate

Dutch verb dichten = write poetry, verse

etc.

Latin "dictare" is pronounced like "dik-tah-reh", with a -K-.

And we know what a -K- becomes in Frisian: -TSH-., like the English -CH- in chocolate.

So "dictare" would sound like "ditshare" in Frisian, close to "Deutsch" or "diets".

Nice going, lol.

But it's not the other way round: the Latins didn't change the -TSH- consonant  into the -K- consonant. Not that I know of, that is.

So the question is: who borrowed what from whom?



.

Edited by Abramelin, 30 November 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Van Gorp]

Abramelin, on 30 November 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Latin "dictare" is pronounced like "dik-tah-reh", with a -K-.

And we know what a -K- becomes in Frisian: -TSH-., like the English -CH- in chocolate.

So "dictare" would sound like "ditshare" in Frisian, close to "Deutsch" or "diets".

Nice going, lol.

But it's not the other way round: the Latins didn't change the -TSH- consonant  into the -K- consonant. Not that I know of, that is.

So the question is: who borrowed what from whom?



.

Latin has had many variants in pronounciation and writing, no real standard and ever evolving (untill now).
Take 'dicere'.

I think the meaning 'uit' is central.

Toth and Duiden, Dien (Explain)

Connection Teutonen, Teuten, Tuytschen, Dietsen?

Teut, Toot (als de bek van Toth): uit-steeksel, eigenlijk uit-getrokken (t’uit als lippen tuiten, of tie’d van tie’n) -> ergens tijd voor uit-trekken
Duiden : d’uiten, be-d’euten, wat wil dat ‘zeggen’ -> uiten, uit-leg, uit-spraak,  dus died is d’uit (over en uit) is dood, een punt erachter schrijven and we place the dot).
Penne-trek of uit-schrijven. Uit-treksel.

Tuytschen -> T’uutschen (volk dat uit het gebied gingen, going out), trekkers, d’uitsen, diet-sen.
D’uitelijk maken is dus diets maken.  Uit-leggen, Ex-plain.

Tie’n -> trekken (ich tei em af in het dialect, ik trek erop uit) -> tiet voor uit-trekken -> tijd trekt voorbij -> alles komt terug -> tied, tide goes up and down
Rek-en-ing houdend met de juiste maat is dat goed uit-gerekend -> da’s bill-ijk :-)

[Abramelin]

Try English.

Anyway, my idea is that the tribe's name simply meant "the people".

Tuatha, Teuto, Diets.

"Tuatha De Danann", the people (Tuatha) of the goddess (De) Dana.

Many people all over the earth carried a name that, translated,. meant nothing else but 'the People'.

Tacitus' "Tuisco/Tuisto" may have meant nothing else but "The Man", and his people were "The Men", his men, his people., his followers.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 30 November 2012 - 10:50 PM.

[Van Gorp]

Abramelin, on 30 November 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Try English.

.

You try to understand the language you try to spreak :-)

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 30 November 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Anyway, my idea is that the tribe's name simply meant "the people".

In OLB the word "THJUD" is also used in both meanings.
I already gave the quotes where it meant 'duiden' (to mean, show, explain etc.).

Here are the ones where it means people:

[039/20] Minno's Skrifta
THA FORSTA ÀND PRESTERA KÉMON BÁRJA THAT WI HJARA TJVTH OVER HÉRICH MAKAD HÉDE
ÀND THÀT FOLK KÉM TO VS VMBE HUL ÀND SKUL
[O+S p.57]
De vorsten en priesteren kwamen en gaven voor dat wij hunne onderdanen oproerig gemaakt hadden,
en het volk kwam tot ons om heul en schut te vragen.
The priests and the princes declared that we had excited their subjects to rebellion,
and the people appealed to us for aid and protection.

[097/10] Burchfám's Love
THA FÉRHÉMANDA HÉRA KÉMON HJARA THJUD ASKJA
[O+S p.135]
De uitheemsche heeren kwamen hunne lieden opeischen;
The foreign lords came to look after their people,

[113/12] Apollánja's Fárt
WI NE SKILUN NÉN BIHOF LONGER NAVT NÀVE AN THÀT WLA THJUD
[O+S p.155]
wij zullen geen behoefte langer hebben aan dat vuile volk.
we shall have no occasion to deal with those nasty people.

[Otharus]

And there is this fragment, that I suspect was mistranslated by Ottema and Sandbach (as well as Jensma):

[002/20] Adela's Rede
THÉR HÉRDON HJA MITH LUSTUM NÉI THA VRDWÁLSKA FINNA SÁGUM.
THRVCHDAM HJA THJVD ÀND NÉI WÉRON.
SÁ SEND HJA VNT.FRYAST VNTHONKES THENE WALD HJARAR ALDRUM

[O+S p.7]
Daar hoorden zij met welgevallen [:lusten] naar de losbandige [:overdwaalse] sagen der Finnen,
omdat die slecht [? duidelijk, verklarend] en nieuw waren.
Zoo zijn zij ontfriesd ondanks de macht hunner ouders.

{N.B. indien THJVD hier slecht betekent - zoals in Nyfrysk -, hoort middelste regel bij laatste, niet bij eerste regel!}

There they learned with pleasure the loose ways of the Finns,
because they were bad [illustrative, explainable?] and new;
and thus they became denationalised in spite of the efforts of their parents.

{note: if THJVD has a negative meaning, like in newfrisian, the 2nd line belongs to the third}

[Abramelin]

Van Gorp, on 30 November 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

You try to understand the language you try to spreak :-)

I do try, but I don't use my fantasies and daydreams to guide me.

Otharus, on 30 November 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

In OLB the word "THJUD" is also used in both meanings.
I already gave the quotes where it meant 'duiden' (to mean, show, explain etc.).

Here are the ones where it means people:

[039/20] Minno's Skrifta
THA FORSTA ÀND PRESTERA KÉMON BÁRJA THAT WI HJARA TJVTH OVER HÉRICH MAKAD HÉDE
ÀND THÀT FOLK KÉM TO VS VMBE HUL ÀND SKUL
[O+S p.57]
De vorsten en priesteren kwamen en gaven voor dat wij hunne onderdanen oproerig gemaakt hadden,
en het volk kwam tot ons om heul en schut te vragen.
The priests and the princes declared that we had excited their subjects to rebellion,
and the people appealed to us for aid and protection.

[097/10] Burchfám's Love
THA FÉRHÉMANDA HÉRA KÉMON HJARA THJUD ASKJA
[O+S p.135]
De uitheemsche heeren kwamen hunne lieden opeischen;
The foreign lords came to look after their people,

[113/12] Apollánja's Fárt
WI NE SKILUN NÉN BIHOF LONGER NAVT NÀVE AN THÀT WLA THJUD
[O+S p.155]
wij zullen geen behoefte langer hebben aan dat vuile volk.
we shall have no occasion to deal with those nasty people.

There you go: PEOPLE.

[Abramelin]

Sometimes words with totally different origins and meanings evolve into words that look very alike.

That's what I once called "covergent etymology", similar to what happened in biology: you have canines, and you have Tasmanian Tigers: they look the same, but they are not anywhere related.

.

[Van Gorp]

Off course also used in relation to people:
Die-Uit, here you go.  And specially for you: de uit-komst (can be used also as the off-spring), daar komen ze uit.