11638 replies to this topic

[Alewyn]

cormac mac airt, on 16 November 2011 - 09:38 AM, said:

I'm not ignoring it. Some of it we've already been over before and the claims ARE NOT as you've presented them in the past. But in ALL cases, not a one of them makes the claim that something happened in 2193/2194, specifically. This has been your downfall for the last 507 pages. So again, where's your evidence supporting the specific date of 2193/2194 BC?

cormac

Downfall?!
You can’t be serious. Six or Seven years over 4200 years? Don't you think you are now grasping at straws?

The Oera Linda Book uses the Date of 2193/2194 as the start of their calendar. If you examine the OLB like I did and you find all the verifiable facts to be correct, then you must assume that the date is also pretty accurate. Add to this the demise of the Akkadian Empire (2193 BC), the Harrapan Urban Civilization (c. 2200 BC), The Old Kingdom in Egypt (c. 2200BC), Ancient cultures in China (c. 2200 BC), all the tsunami and flood evidence I gave earlier today (c. 2200 BC), etc. etc. Surely you do not expect all these archaeological dates to be accurate to the exact year.

Btw. The OLB dating just happens to tie in with Alexander the Great's Indian campaign which tells me the date is correct.

I am certain you have it in you to up your analytical skills a notch or two.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 16 November 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

Just adding some quotes from the website Puzz found ( http://www.chiemgau-impact.com/ ) :

Doppler et al. (2011: 274) contend that we would date the Chiemgau impact to “some 2500 years ago” in “the Iron Age”. In actual fact we have dated the event to a period of 4200-2800 years ago (2200-800 BC), this means the Bronze Age (Rappenglück et al. 2010: 436).

-

Arguing from a critical reading of the text, and scientific evidence on the ground, the authors show that the myth of Phaethon – the delinquent celestial charioteer – remembers the impact of a massive meteorite that hit the Chiemgau region in Bavaria between 2000 and 428 BC.

-

Physical and archeological dating confine the impact event to have happened most probably between 1300 and 300 B.C. The impactor is suggested to have been a low-density disintegrated, loosely bound asteroid or adisintegrated comet in order to account for the extensive strewn field.

Fact being, it has not been dated conclusively, but is thought possible to be from 2200BC onwards sometime.

The Kaali crater is much the same, regardless of what you think they should know, they don't know exactly on it either.

Scientists are fairly sure they know how this story began: a meteor initially weighing some 400 - 10,000 tons sped in from the northeast moving 15 - 45 kilometers per second and entered the Earth's atmosphere at a 45-degree angle. After turning into a fireball and losing most of its mass, the meteor broke apart about 5 - 10 kilometers from the surface, then hit Saaremaa with a force that has been compared to that of a small atomic blast.

What they still can't tell us is when this all happened. The evidence, at least for now, points in two different directions.

Formed in the 7th century BC or about 4000 years ago (estimates vary) You gotta love that.

"We usually give two dates - '4,000 years' and 'older'," said Reet Tiirmaa, a geologist with Tallinn Technological University who specializes in meteors.

"The age of the sediments of the lake in the main crater tell us that the [impact] was almost 4,000 years ago. But now we've studied the peat of the [nearby] swamp and in one layer we found very small impact spheres from the explosion. This layer was 7,500 years old, which says that the impact was 7,500 years ago," she said.
http://www.baltictim...articles/13029/

There may have even been an earlier impact at 7,500BP as well as 4000BP.

It's not impossible the smaller impacts on Bavaria were also from the incoming Kaali impact, it being a meteor shower type impact.

I don't know exactly why the impact crater is called Kaali, but what I do find interesting is the Indian connection...

The Terrible Kaali, The Benign Mother
http://www.dlshq.org...gions/kaali.htm

and the Phaethon connection.

----------------------

Here's the runic passage in the Kalevala, that talks about the son of the Sun falling, possibly speaking of the Kaali impact.
It was precisely this kind of connection to ancient tales that interested Lennart Meri. Long before he became president of Estonia (1992 - 2000), the ethnographer found what he considered to be echoes of the Kaali meteorite event in the Baltic region's oral folk tradition, in particular, the Finnish national epic, Kalevala.

"Rune 47" contains numerous accounts of the child of the sun falling from the sky that could easily double as poetic accounts of a large meteor impact. "Downward quick the red-ball rushes, / Shoots across the arch of heaven, / Hisses through the startled cloudlets, / Flashes through the troubled welkin, / Through nine starry vaults of ether…," goes one such passage.
http://www.baltictim...articles/13029/


At these words, Dionysos rejoiced in hope of victory; then he questioned Hermes and wished to hear more of the Olympian tale which the Celts of the west know well: how Phaethon tumbled over and over through the air, and why even the Heliades (Daughters of Helios) were changed into trees beside the moaning Eridanos, and from their leafy trees drop sparkling tears into the stream [the source of amber].
http://www.theoi.com...n/Phaethon.html

Not only does the whole Phaethon myth smack of Nordic themes in amber, heliades but the Celts of the West knew it so well.

Why would that be? As I suggested before imo the (proto) Celts themselves who ended up down in Austria, were actually from Estonia, Finland and Poland and left when the impact of Kaali/Phaethon hit.

They took this story with them, as they developed ino Celts, who also might have been the Kalta followers as well once in Europe, as people who told stories they recalled it best.

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 November 2011 - 02:49 PM.

[Abramelin]

"Kaali" is Finnish for "cabbage", lol.

http://en.wiktionary...wiki/lehtikaali

http://www.memrise.c.../kaali-cabbage/

.

Edited by Abramelin, 16 November 2011 - 02:48 PM.

[Alewyn]

Abramelin, on 13 May 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

You might want to check how the Los Millares (S/E Spain) settlement got destroyed in 2200 BC: by extensive fires...

But the explanation is that is was destroyed by fire during wars.

Btw, I have read somewhere about a submarine volcano, west of Portugal, Mt.Tores something, causing this flood/tsunami.

+++


EDIT:

During the period of 2600 B.C. to 2400 B.C. there were signs of stress beginning to appear in the Millaren culture. Their fortifications were reinforced and enlarged to their maximum extent indicating violent encounters or war with the neighboring peoples from the west and north of them. It was in this period that the first Maritime Bell Beaker pottery appeared among the Millarens. The pottery spread quickly throughout the region on the existing maritime trade networks. By 2400 B.C. the social stress facing the Millarens began to worsen into a crisis and the large settlements began to depopulate. The graves of the elites were increasingly accompanied with weapons indicating the violent nature of the time. By 2200 B.C. the town of Los Millares was abandoned after a sequence of catastrophes (probably large-scale warfare). There is evidence of widespread fires and damage to the fortifications. But amid the destruction, the first settlements of the El Argar arose to take their place. The period began with the use of bronze in the Aegean in 2600 B.C. and ended in 2200 B.C. with it being used by the Beaker people in Britain.

http://www.minoanatl...inoan_Spain.php

I know you posted this months ago but, there is that date of 2200 BC again - and fires to boot. Don't you find it even a little bit peculiar that the date keeps on cropping up?

[ISAEYEALLSEEING]

Riaan, on 22 June 2010 - 07:41 PM, said:

I was recently contacted by Alewyn Raubenheimer, a fellow South African, who has just published a new theory about the Great Flood in a book called Survivors of the Great Tsunami. He based his theories on the so-called Oera Linda Book, which I in fact had never heard of before. If you are interested, you can read more about its contents on his website (here). Although I do not necessarily agree with his theories, you may find it an interesting read. The book can be purchased here.

These watery tales certainly attract larger numbers of readers dont they regardless of the hecklers and trolls :-) This thread 198,485 Views

THE LOCATION OF ATLANTIS    913,327 views




Nik

[Abramelin]

Alewyn, on 16 November 2011 - 02:52 PM, said:

I know you posted this months ago but, there is that date of 2200 BC again - and fires to boot. Don't you find it even a little bit peculiar that the date keeps on cropping up?

I re-posted it because I wasn't sure you remembered it.

Anyway, about that date:

"By 2400 B.C. the social stress facing the Millarens began to worsen into a crisis and the large settlements began to depopulate. The graves of the elites were increasingly accompanied with weapons indicating the violent nature of the time. By 2200 B.C. the town of Los Millares was abandoned after a sequence of catastrophes (probably large-scale warfare). There is evidence of widespread fires and damage to the fortifications. But amid the destruction, the first settlements of the El Argar arose to take their place."

If this area was part of Fryan area, everything wasn't as peaceful and harmonious before 2194 BC as the OLB wants us to believe.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 16 November 2011 - 02:46 PM, said:

"Kaali" is Finnish for "cabbage", lol.

http://en.wiktionary...wiki/lehtikaali

http://www.memrise.c.../kaali-cabbage/

.

Apparently so.

I thought this one was interesting though because the word Kala, for Shiva, is a very similar word as in KALEvala.

Kālī (Sanskrit: काली, IPA: [kɑːliː]; Bengali: কালী; Punjabi: ਕਾਲੀ; Tamil: காளி; Telugu: కాళికాదేవి), also known as Kālikā (Sanskrit: कालिका, Bengali: কালিকা), is the Hindu goddess associated with eternal energy. "She who destroys". The name Kali comes from kāla, which means black, time, death, lord of death, Shiva. Kali means "the black one". Since Shiva is called Kāla - the eternal time, Kālī, his consort, also means "Time" or "Death" (as in time has come). Hence, Kāli is considered the goddess of time and change. Although sometimes presented as dark and violent, her earliest incarnation as a figure of annihilation still has some influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali

Too tired to follow it up now and off topic anyway.  

[Abramelin]

ISAEYEALLSEEING, on 16 November 2011 - 02:56 PM, said:

These watery tales certainly attract larger numbers of readers dont they regardless of the hecklers and trolls :-) This thread 198,485 Views

THE LOCATION OF ATLANTIS    913,327 views




Nik

What is that supposed to mean??

Did you even TRY to read this thread?

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 16 November 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Apparently so.

I thought this one was interesting though because the word Kala, for Shiva, is a very similar word as in KALEvala.

Kālī (Sanskrit: काली, IPA: [kɑːliː]; Bengali: কালী; Punjabi: ਕਾਲੀ; Tamil: காளி; Telugu: కాళికాదేవి), also known as Kālikā (Sanskrit: कालिका, Bengali: কালিকা), is the Hindu goddess associated with eternal energy. "She who destroys". The name Kali comes from kāla, which means black, time, death, lord of death, Shiva. Kali means "the black one". Since Shiva is called Kāla - the eternal time, Kālī, his consort, also means "Time" or "Death" (as in time has come). Hence, Kāli is considered the goddess of time and change. Although sometimes presented as dark and violent, her earliest incarnation as a figure of annihilation still has some influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali

Too tired to follow it up now and off topic anyway.  

Etymology

From Kaleva +‎ -la = dwelling place of Kaleva (or, of the descendants of Kaleva).

http://en.wiktionary...evala#Etymology


It might also have something to do with "blacksmith"

"KALEVA, fictional ancestor or "father" of several personalities, male and female, mostly "Kaleva sons....." and read on.

http://books.google....ymology&f=false

[Knul]

Alewyn, on 16 November 2011 - 02:40 PM, said:

Downfall?!
You can’t be serious. Six or Seven years over 4200 years? Don't you think you are now grasping at straws?

The Oera Linda Book uses the Date of 2193/2194 as the start of their calendar. If you examine the OLB like I did and you find all the verifiable facts to be correct, then you must assume that the date is also pretty accurate. Add to this the demise of the Akkadian Empire (2193 BC), the Harrapan Urban Civilization (c. 2200 BC), The Old Kingdom in Egypt (c. 2200BC), Ancient cultures in China (c. 2200 BC), all the tsunami and flood evidence I gave earlier today (c. 2200 BC), etc. etc. Surely you do not expect all these archaeological dates to be accurate to the exact year.

Btw. The OLB dating just happens to tie in with Alexander the Great's Indian campaign which tells me the date is correct.

I am certain you have it in you to up your analytical skills a notch or two.

You have well observed, that the OLB dating (I call it AT = Atland) ties in with the known date of the campaign of Alexander the Great. Similarly the OLB dating of the visit of Ulysses to Walhallagara (burchtfam Kalip = Calypso) lines up with the end of the Trojan war (traditionally ca. 1180) 1005 years after Atland had sunken (2193 - 1005 = 1188). This does not proof, that the dates of the OLB are correct, but that the author used known dates for his story. Every student of the so called Latin Schools knew these dates.  

Troy was ruled by Heracleid dynasty, for 505 years until the time of Candaules. The generation before the Trojan War, Heracles captured Troy and killed Laomedon and his sons, except for young Priam. Priam later became king and during his reign, the Greeks invaded and captured Troy, in the Trojan War, 1193–1183 BCE, most recently dated to 1188 BCE. s. http://www.hector.co...p?listingID=14.

Edited by Knul, 16 November 2011 - 05:18 PM.

[Knul]

About Slavery in the OLB: (No English text available) The objections to slavery are similar to the ideas of Halbertsma

Dat er ook slaven en lijfeigenen in Friesland zouden geweest zijn, wordt op grond van enkele plaatsen der oude Friesche wetten door sommigen beweerd, doch door anderen tegengesproken, op grond der algemeene volksvrijheid en gelijkheid van alle ingezetenen voor de wet; alsmede, omdat de slavernij haren grond had in het regt van verovering. Aangezien nu de Friezen, althans na KARELden groote, van het zwerven en veroveren hadden afgezien, en zich door eene bijzondere gehechtheid aan hun land kenmerkten, is hier kwalijk aan slavernij te denken, ten zij gevangen genomen Noormannen daarin vielen. Zoo denkt ook HALBERTSMA in zijne Letterkundige Naoogst, 1840, I 135, 138.
BEKNOPTE GESCHIEDENIS VAN FRIESLAND IN HOOFDTREKKEN; bevattende een Overzigt van de lotgevallen der Friezen en van de voornaamste gebeurtenissen, gedurende bijna tweeduizend jaren in dit land voorgevallen.
UIT VELE VROEGERE EN LATERE BRONNEN BEWERKT,DOOR W. EEKHOFF Archivarius der stad Leeuwarden, Voorzitter van de Tweede Afdeeling der werkende Leden van het Friesch Genootschap van Geschied-, Oudheid- en Taalkunde, Lid van de Maatschappij van Nederlandsche Letterkunde te Leiden en van het Provinciaal Utrechtsch Genootschap van Kunsten en Wetenschappen. Met eene Schetskaart van den waarschijnlijken toestand van het land der Friezen en hunne naburen, omstreeks den aanvang onzer tijdrekening.
TE LEEUWARDEN, BIJ W. EEKHOFF. 1851.


About the Sax (knife) in the OLB (no English text available) The explanation of the name of the Saxons (sax - knife) in the OLB can be related to J.H. Halbertsma's study of long and short knives.

vs. 69. stekemes couteau poignard, het korte zwaard, bij de Sc. sax Ags. seax genaamd. Aelfrici glossae, handsex othtïie lytel svntrd, handsax of klein zwaard. Het korte zijgeweer , hetwelk de Friesche policiedienaars ten platte lande droegen, noemden de oude Oostfriezen ook saghs, gelijk Cadovius Muller in zy'n eigenhandig Afemoriale Frisice, thans mijn eigendom, door eene afbeelding der saghs bewijst. Aelfric gl. vertaalt sex ook, cultellus, gelijk Nennius saxes door cultelli; doch cultellus had in de middeneeuwen de beteekenis van handwapen , hetzij korter, hetzij langer. Zie bij du Cange op cultellus de volgende plaats; „ habcbant cultellos longos, gra„ cues, triacumines, quolibet acumine indifferenter secantes, ,. a cuspide usque ad manubrium, quibus utebanter pro gla„ dus." Dit lijkt veel op onze degens. Het woord mes, door Maerlant hier voor de sax gebezigd, heeft ook de dubbelde beteekenis van culter en gladius; zie Kil. Aelfr. gl. cnif artovus, i. e. pennemes. Lfr. kmf knipmesje, in onderscheiding van het grootere mees, culter. NL hak-mes, breede keukenbijl met dun blad.. Maerlant bedoelt met steeck-wessen dus korte degens, of lange daggen. Ik moet echter doen opmerken, dat de Friezen en zee-Saxen wel een zakwapen droegen om te houwen en te snijden, niet om te steken; bij de Italianen, en in het gemeen bij de zuidelijke volken van Europa, zijn de steekmessen en ponjanrds meer in zwang. De zee-Saxen en Friezen waren nooit zonder een groot puntmes, dat, het lemmet in eene lederen schede gestoken, met het hecht den dijzak der broek uitstak, en ieder oogenblik met gemak werd uitgehaald, hetzij om brood of touw te snijden, hetzij om partij een jaap in het gezigt te geven. Om van het kortjan der matrozen te zwijgen, dient het zakmes in ons vaderland nog hier en daar tot dat einde, en vroeger was op de Friesche en Saxische kermissen ten platten lande het mcsjentrekken even gewoon en eerlijk als het dansen. Deventer had voormaals eene keur op de hangmessen; om burgeroorlog voor te komen, mogten zij niet gedragen worden dan tot zekere lengte, wier maat door een modelmes , nog op het stadhuis aanwezig, werd aangewezen. Overigens is het duidelijk , dat zeelieden, gelijk Hengist en de zijnen, zich met lange wapens in geene touwen en zeilen konden redden, en zich dus van kort handgeweer bedienen moesten.
die lose, die ongetrouwe,
die kadde in sine mouwe
een stékemes al heimelilce,
i ml,: alle de sine des geUke.
Ten tijde van Maerlant droegen de mannen wijde mouwen, gelyk aan zijn eigen portrait te zien is. De zot verbierg in de mouw zijn marot, de toovenaar den wind, de sluikmoordenaar den ponjaard; van hier NI. hij heeft ze in de mouw, hjj heeft stille knepen. Gelijk na de middeneeuwsche schilders de windmolens reeds voor den zondvloed laten draaijen, en Noah eenen bril op den neus zetten, zoo laat M. hier de Saxen hunne lange messen uit de wijde wambuismouwen halen. Maar Hengist en de zijnen droegen de armen bloot, en het was ook onnoodig, dat oorlogsmannen, anders altijd met korte zwaardjes gewapend, die bij deze gelegenheid zouden hebben verborgen. Mouwen waren bij uitsluiting de dragt der vrouwen. De ruime beteekenis van soa; en mes ligt in beider grondbeteekenis van snijden, die zoo wel op het kleinste mes als het grootste slagzwaard kan toegepast worden. Graff leidt mes af van G. maitan, scindere; het is van Sc. massa, in kleine stukjes snijden, waarvan het Fr. massacrer. De a, bij de Neder- en Hoogduitschers verschraald tot e in NI. mes Th. mezarahs Hd. messer, vergroofde zich tot o bij de Hindelopers en andere zuidhoeksche Friezen in hun mos, culter, terwijl het Lfr. de a op zijn Agelsaxisch in CB, mees, verandert. Sax zit vast aan het algemeene thema van sic in Lat. ska, secare; NI. sikkel Ags. sicel, falx. Sc. sigd Lfr. sichte id. sichtja falce demetere. Th. seh ligo. Ags. ncegel-seax nagelmesje; scer-scex scheermes. Th. scar-sahs scheermes; mezzi-sahs ploegijzer. Zoo zien wij, dat sax de snijdende werktuigen, vanliet scheermes tot de spade en het oorlogszwaard toe, aanduidde: mes doet hetzelfde, cf. Gff. H. 912.

J.H. Halbertsma AANTEEKENINGEN SPIEGEL HISTORUEL. UITGEGEVEN DOOR DE TWEEDE KLASSE VAN HET KONINKLIJK-NEDERLANDSCHE INSTITUUT VAN WETENSCHAPPEN, LETTERKUNDE EN SCHOONE KUNSTEN. AMSTERDAM,Jen 4*f° December 1851.

[Knul]

Otharus, on 16 November 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

Did you know that it was once "widely accepted" that our economy would always keep growing and what happened to wise people who dared to challenge this belief?

You surely remember the once "widely accepted" ideas that the earth is flat and that the sun rotates around it.

I've seen enough of your 'evidence' to not feel like wasting my time on reading a book by the incredibly boring Halbertsma (who had no sense of humor or imagination).

Why don't you quote or summarize this evidence so the whole forum can read it?

If it's any good, I or Abe will translate it for you.

I invited you both to translate the testament of Cornelis over de Linden, but it did not happen. I suggested to you to read Letterkundige Naoogst so that you could select the relevant items yourself, but you refuse to read it (in order not to be convinced I guess). I have posted two texts today, worthwile for a translation. By the way, you know that Rimen en Tsjeltjes of the bruorren Halbertsma is reprinted till today, because Halbertsma's stories are interesting and humoristic ?

[Abramelin]

Menno, you suggested Otharus should read "Letterkundige Naoogst", but he already did and posted about it (you can read/download it here... and look at the sentence you see first: "Ork my son", heh.. http://books.google....epage&q&f=false ) :

Otharus, on 28 February 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

Abe, you have suggested several times that you consider the Frisian Joost Halbertsma (1789-1869) to be the mastermind, the main suspect of having created the supposed OLB-hoax.

I invite you to have a look into his mind and then reconsider the plausibility of this.

The following is copied from his publication "LETTERKUNDIGE NAOOGST" (1840), a study of Frisian poetry and literature and the meaning of words (page 138). Translation into English, followed by the original.

Improvised translation
"Tzjerl. The Latin gerulus, a carrier, is like the Germanic carle, Anglosaxon céorle, English churl [tshurl] and this Tjzerl or tzjirl; meaning a man, that by his birth is doomed to carry and tote, or to general land-labour. We already saw that the word with the Anglosaxons and the Frisians had the meaning of a service-man, with or without the prefix hûs. But these huis-kerels, that is, house-servants, became besides fieldworkers, also servants around the house for the landlords and later also for helpers in battle. King Aelfric therefore used the term æcer-céorl, akkerkerel or farmer, as opposed to hûs-cèorl. That's why in medieval Latin hus-carla not only means the man, who is part of the court of a prince or lord, but also the warrior from the court, or one of the bodyguards. Du Cange gave an example where the king gave certain orders to all soldiers of his court, that in Danish are called hûs-carlen. Gabbema (...) shows the tzirlen as meaning fight-mates, and Gysbert uses it in a similar sense like comrade, fellow, loyal mate. The Hollanders say in that same sense "kereltje" to the children, and the Friezen Tzirl to a grown up man. Tzirl is more proud and more masculine than Kereltje. Friesland was the most aristocratic nation of the world, yet so much tempered by democracy, that the farmer calls his landlord Tzerl with the deepest respect. This cultural spirit, still owned by the English, was the result of these peoples being ruled by the ancient duces, mentioned by Tacitus."

Dutch
"Tzjerl. Het Latijnsche gerulus, een drager, staat over tegen het Germaansche carle, Angels, céorle, Eng. churl [tshurl] en dit Tjzerl of tzjirl; duidende dus eigenlijk een man aan, die door zijne geboorte tot dragen en sjouwen, of tot gemeenen veldarbeid, gedoemd is. Wij hebben reeds gezien, dat het woord bij de Angelsaxen en Friezen de beteekenis van zulk eenen dienstman bezat, het zij dan met of zonder vooraanzetting van hûs. Maar die huis-kerels, dat is, huis-knechten, wierden behalve tot den veldarbeid, bij de groote heeren vervolgens ook tot huisdiensten, en eindelijk tot helpers in den strijd gebruikt. Koning Aelfric sprak daarom al van eenen æcer-céorl, akkerkerel of boer, in tegenstelling met een hûs-cèorl. Van daar beteekent in het middeneeuwsch Latijn hus-carla niet alleen den man, die tot den hofstoet van een prins of groot heer behoort, maar ook den krijgsman uit de hofhouding, die tot de lijfwacht behoorde. Du Cange haalt daartoe onder anderen eene plaats aan, waarin de koning aan al de soldaten van zijne huishouding, welke men in het Deensch hûs-carlen noemt, zeker bevel geeft. Bij Gabbema (...) komen de tzirlen dan ook voor als strijdgenooten, en in dergelijken zin van kameraad, beste, trouwe maat, neemt het ook Gysbert. De Hollanders zeggen in dien zelfden zin kereltje tegen de kinders, waarin de Friezen Tzirl tot een volwassen man. Tzirl is deftiger en mannelijker dan Kereltje. Friesland was het aristocratischste land der wereld, doch zoo sterk getemperd door de democratie, dat de boer behoudens de diepste achting zijnen landheer Tzerl noemt. Deze volksgeest, die nog aan de Engelschen eigen is, was het uitvloeisel van het staan dezer volkstammen onder de aloude duces, van welke Tacitus spreekt.

Some conclusions

1)
Halbertsma starts with comparing this Frisian word "Tzjerl" with its counterparts in Latin, Germanic, Anglosaxon and English. He emphatically leaves out the Dutch "Kerel". Later he mentions that the Hollanders call their children "kereltje", but he immediately adds that the Frisian word is so much more masculine and proud.
In the OLB, the version of this word is KERDEL and it is used only twice:

(Fryan) KERDEL = (Dutch) kerel  = (German) Kerl = (Swedish) kille = (Frisian) = tzjerl
(the modern English churl has a negative meaning, but apparently in the 19th century it was still a positive term)

Related names: Karel, Karl, Carl, Charles, Carolus, Carlos

transliteration Ottema, 1876:
[p.041] Jahwêder jong kerdel âch en brud to sêka ånd is er fif ånd twintich sa âcht-er en wif to håva.
[p.119] Thâ hja landa hipte-n jong kerdel wal vp. In sina handa hêdi-n skild, thêrvp was bråd åend salt lêid.

Now imagine this Halbertsma, being a proud nationalsist Frisian, who liked to believe that his Frisian language was older than the language of the Hollanders that he must have hated or at least despised so much. And he has a little obsession with this word tzjerl (in his beloved English: churl).
Why would he, writing his political and/or cultural-historical masterpiece use a version of this word that is much closer to the Hollandic KEREL that to his Frisian TZJERL? And he could easily have used this word many times, preferrably in combination with "HûS-", but no, it's only used twice and only in the context of a young man, and hardly as the hard working or brave, proud loyal warrior that he described in his 1840 essay.

2)
He proudly calls Friesland the most aristocratic nation of the world and he does not seem very pleased with the democratic principle. The OLB does not reflect these sentiments at all.

3)
He suggests that the respect that the Frisians and English still have for their landlords stems from the time of the DUCES from the Roman times (reminds me of Mussolini LOL). How do you think the Folkmothers and the free fryans from the OLB would have felt about those 'duces'? That was a rhetorical question indeed.

So, in this short sample, there's already three reasons to dismiss the theory that Halbertsma would have been involved in the creation of the OLB.

Even über-hoaxtheorist Jensma did not consider Halbertsma a serious candidate for the job.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

And no, I didn't recieve news about the paper and ink study yet.
Don't worry, you'll know only a few hours later than me.

Edited by Abramelin, 16 November 2011 - 06:48 PM.

[cormac mac airt]

Alewyn, on 16 November 2011 - 02:40 PM, said:

Downfall?!
You can’t be serious. Six or Seven years over 4200 years? Don't you think you are now grasping at straws?

The Oera Linda Book uses the Date of 2193/2194 as the start of their calendar. If you examine the OLB like I did and you find all the verifiable facts to be correct, then you must assume that the date is also pretty accurate. Add to this the demise of the Akkadian Empire (2193 BC), the Harrapan Urban Civilization (c. 2200 BC), The Old Kingdom in Egypt (c. 2200BC), Ancient cultures in China (c. 2200 BC), all the tsunami and flood evidence I gave earlier today (c. 2200 BC), etc. etc.

Who's the one who has presented the date of 2193/2194 as fact? That would be you.

Who's the one who has NOT presented any evidence supporting that specific date? Again, that would be you.

Who's the one who is AGAIN presenting the above dates, which have been gone over before, as established fact? Once again, that would be you.

Quote

Surely you do not expect all these archaeological dates to be accurate to the exact year.

No, I'd consider them to be gross generalizations and have said so many, MANY times in this thread. You on the other hand have attempted, time and time again, to present them as verifiable fact supporting the specific date of 2193/2194. THEY'RE NOT.

Quote

I am certain you have it in you to up your analytical skills a notch or two.

I am certain YOU have it within you to be relevant to the facts, NOW would be a great time for you to do so.  

cormac

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Can we keep the discussion civil and respectful please.

Thank you.