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2012 – Have we got the year totally wrong?


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#1    lightrespite

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 09:43 PM

In all this talk about what is going to happen in 2012, it would be fair to point out that there is in no way absolute certainty that this is the right year or day for the so called end of the Mayan Long Count Calendar. Indeed, one must point out that the 21 December 2012 date is simply the generally accepted theory at present in academia. It may indeed be wrong. A good link to a brief discussion of the Long Count and also a listing of alternative ‘start dates’ for the Long Count – and thus end dates also, can be had at the following link:


Long Count Mayan Calendar


Indeed, it is interesting to point out that the Maya did have an exceptionally accurate value for the length of the Earth Tropical Year, such that if they had wanted to fix the end of the Long Count on a solstice, then they could have. However, if indeed the Long Count does not truly end on a solstice, then the Galactic Alignment linkage is essentially destroyed.


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#2    Jessem

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 09:47 PM

View Postlightrespite, on 29 August 2009 - 09:43 PM, said:

In all this talk about what is going to happen in 2012, it would be fair to point out that there is in no way absolute certainty that this is the right year or day for the so called end of the Mayan Long Count Calendar. Indeed, one must point out that the 21 December 2012 date is simply the generally accepted theory at present in academia. It may indeed be wrong. A good link to a brief discussion of the Long Count and also a listing of alternative ‘start dates’ for the Long Count – and thus end dates also, can be had at the following link:


Long Count Mayan Calendar


Indeed, it is interesting to point out that the Maya did have an exceptionally accurate value for the length of the Earth Tropical Year, such that if they had wanted to fix the end of the Long Count on a solstice, then they could have. However, if indeed the Long Count does not truly end on a solstice, then the Galactic Alignment linkage is essentially destroyed.


LR
Yes that may be an option. But I believe since weve established a date for thosands of years, this system is the way we Undertsand what cycle of year it is. Look up the meanings of the name of the months and track the prigin of the calender, beyond the mayans. Its funny because the order of thins like this almost just came natural. I would recommend the intute of the spithsonian for further research on the logisics. Very interesting how cinilixations got the same concept when communication between eachother was very futile and impossible.

Edited by Jessem, 29 August 2009 - 09:48 PM.

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#3    KRS-One

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:11 PM

View PostJessem, on 29 August 2009 - 09:47 PM, said:

Yes that may be an option. But I believe since weve established a date for thosands of years, this system is the way we Undertsand what cycle of year it is. Look up the meanings of the name of the months and track the prigin of the calender, beyond the mayans. Its funny because the order of thins like this almost just came natural. I would recommend the intute of the spithsonian for further research on the logisics. Very interesting how cinilixations got the same concept when communication between eachother was very futile and impossible.

Actually the names of the months in the calendar system we use all come from latin origins based on the Romans.

January - Named after Janus, God of the doorway (good way to open a new year)
February - named after the Latin term februum, which means purification, via the purification ritual Februa held on February 15 in the old Roman calendar.
March - the first month of the year and named Martius after Mars, the Roman god of war.
April - Not too clear on this one.  Could have come from the Latin aperire, "to open".  Kind of a reach.
May - named for the Greek goddess Maia, who was identified with the Roman era goddess of fertility, Bona Dea, whose festival was held in May.
June - named after the Roman goddess Juno, wife of Jupiter and equivalent to the Greek goddess Hera.
July - (this one should be really obvious) renamed for Julius Caesar, who was born in that month. Previously, it was called Quintilis in Latin, since it was the fifth month in the ancient Roman calendar.  You know you made it big when a month of the year still carries your family name 2000+ years later.
August - Named after Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus (you know him as "Octavian", and once again, you know you're big time when both you AND your uncle have months that retain your names for 2000 years).
September - In Latin, septem means "seven" and septimus means "seventh"; September was in fact the seventh month of the Roman calendar until 153 BC
October - Same as September, this meant "eigth" in Latin, and since it followed September, I guess that's obvious.
November - Same as September/October.  Meant "ninth" in Latin.
December - Again, the same.  Dec- means "ten" in latin.  "Decade" and "Decimate" follow as examples.  The romans were pretty boring in their original calendar, it just went 1-10 numerically until people started getting creative with it later.


#4    Jessem

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:28 PM

View PostKRS-One, on 29 August 2009 - 10:11 PM, said:

Actually the names of the months in the calendar system we use all come from latin origins based on the Romans.

January - Named after Janus, God of the doorway (good way to open a new year)
February - named after the Latin term februum, which means purification, via the purification ritual Februa held on February 15 in the old Roman calendar.
March - the first month of the year and named Martius after Mars, the Roman god of war.
April - Not too clear on this one.  Could have come from the Latin aperire, "to open".  Kind of a reach.
May - named for the Greek goddess Maia, who was identified with the Roman era goddess of fertility, Bona Dea, whose festival was held in May.
June - named after the Roman goddess Juno, wife of Jupiter and equivalent to the Greek goddess Hera.
July - (this one should be really obvious) renamed for Julius Caesar, who was born in that month. Previously, it was called Quintilis in Latin, since it was the fifth month in the ancient Roman calendar.  You know you made it big when a month of the year still carries your family name 2000+ years later.
August - Named after Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus (you know him as "Octavian", and once again, you know you're big time when both you AND your uncle have months that retain your names for 2000 years).
September - In Latin, septem means "seven" and septimus means "seventh"; September was in fact the seventh month of the Roman calendar until 153 BC
October - Same as September, this meant "eigth" in Latin, and since it followed September, I guess that's obvious.
November - Same as September/October.  Meant "ninth" in Latin.
December - Again, the same.  Dec- means "ten" in latin.  "Decade" and "Decimate" follow as examples.  The romans were pretty boring in their original calendar, it just went 1-10 numerically until people started getting creative with it later.

What was the name of the months before the romans,or greeks decided to amplify them in thier own accordance?
I cant find any pages refrenceing that. Hey krs whats a good refrence site that would pertain to good crediable info on history and origins of that matter?

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#5    KRS-One

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:34 PM

View PostJessem, on 29 August 2009 - 10:28 PM, said:

What was the name of the months before the romans,or greeks decided to amplify them in thier own accordance?
I cant find any pages refrenceing that. Hey krs whats a good refrence site that would pertain to good crediable info on history and origins of that matter?

Well, first you have to understand that many different cultures prior to the Greeks and Romans used a bunch of different, random calendar systems.  Some used 12 months, some used more, some less.  As you can see for a long time the Romans used a 10 month system.

Aside from a general naming theme of weather patterns in the area the culture you're asking about was from and phases of the moon, there really isn't a lot that binds them together.

I got most of my quick reference to the Roman names from links on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Months

This is a REALLY brief glossing over.  I'd recommend that you follow what interests you, but be sure to locate and browse the reference materials that the pages mention.  Some links on the page go to more ancient Chinese calanders and the like.  Essentially, there's a ton of random calendar related information out there and if you dig far enough and smudge enough facts, you can make any calendar or group of calendar system sound related to whatever crazy 2012 theory you want.  It's important to note that that isn't TRUE however, and that months and seasons were determined individually by various cultures.

edit:  Did just a very brief look into your question more specifically, the Roman calendar originated from the Greek lunar calendars.  The Greeks appear to have come up with this system on their own, from as far as I can tell.  That their system matches other ancient cultures in divining a 12 month or phase cycle really shouldn't be surprising.  It's all based on what the moon's doing, and everyone around the world can see the moon, so it's not surprising cultures all used it at a time piece.  Pretty mathematical.

Edited by KRS-One, 29 August 2009 - 10:37 PM.


#6    Jessem

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:48 PM

View PostKRS-One, on 29 August 2009 - 10:34 PM, said:

Well, first you have to understand that many different cultures prior to the Greeks and Romans used a bunch of different, random calendar systems.  Some used 12 months, some used more, some less.  As you can see for a long time the Romans used a 10 month system.

Aside from a general naming theme of weather patterns in the area the culture you're asking about was from and phases of the moon, there really isn't a lot that binds them together.

I got most of my quick reference to the Roman names from links on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Months

This is a REALLY brief glossing over.  I'd recommend that you follow what interests you, but be sure to locate and browse the reference materials that the pages mention.  Some links on the page go to more ancient Chinese calanders and the like.  Essentially, there's a ton of random calendar related information out there and if you dig far enough and smudge enough facts, you can make any calendar or group of calendar system sound related to whatever crazy 2012 theory you want.  It's important to note that that isn't TRUE however, and that months and seasons were determined individually by various cultures.

edit:  Did just a very brief look into your question more specifically, the Roman calendar originated from the Greek lunar calendars.  The Greeks appear to have come up with this system on their own, from as far as I can tell.  That their system matches other ancient cultures in divining a 12 month or phase cycle really shouldn't be surprising.  It's all based on what the moon's doing, and everyone around the world can see the moon, so it's not surprising cultures all used it at a time piece.  Pretty mathematical.

Thank you,
I was actually wonder if you have any specific refrence places for more than just the topic. I know the library is a great place for knowledge but i was wondering there are more scientifical views arond here for easier access. even though the quest for knowledge is not the easiest of tasks. LOL

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#7    KRS-One

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 11:23 PM

books.google.com often has tons of books available to read for free on a variety of topics that you can search through.
www.wikipedia.org CAN be ok.  I would recommend that you use it for a quick reference on topics, but as I mentioned before, look at the sources that are listed towards the bottom of each article.  These are typically links to accredited sources or a bibliography of printed information that you can reference.  
Other than that?  Get a secondary education if you aren't or haven't already.  I don't mean to be condescending, I'm honestly stating what I think people should do.  Nothing on EARTH will teach you how to mine information like being expected to write coherent papers using legitimate sources you need to find yourself.  It's a wonderful lesson in how to track information, much like you're asking.


#8    Jessem

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 11:41 PM

View PostKRS-One, on 29 August 2009 - 11:23 PM, said:

books.google.com often has tons of books available to read for free on a variety of topics that you can search through.
www.wikipedia.org CAN be ok.  I would recommend that you use it for a quick reference on topics, but as I mentioned before, look at the sources that are listed towards the bottom of each article.  These are typically links to accredited sources or a bibliography of printed information that you can reference.  
Other than that?  Get a secondary education if you aren't or haven't already.  I don't mean to be condescending, I'm honestly stating what I think people should do.  Nothing on EARTH will teach you how to mine information like being expected to write coherent papers using legitimate sources you need to find yourself.  It's a wonderful lesson in how to track information, much like you're asking.
I definatly agree on that, Life can be lost without an eduacation whether in the classroom or life expierence, Thanks again.

Edited by Jessem, 29 August 2009 - 11:41 PM.

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#9    Agent. Mulder

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 11:45 PM

the years not wrong, as the mayans never predicted the end of the world.
so its the prophecy thats wrong.

the truth is out there....

#10    AliveInDeath7

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 12:21 AM

I'm getting a bit sick of seeing the numbers 2 0 1 2


#11    TheSearcher

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 09:06 AM

View PostEternalHeart, on 31 August 2009 - 12:21 AM, said:

I'm getting a bit sick of seeing the numbers 2 0 1 2

I can lend you a blindfold if you want, but how would you use your computer then?

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