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Zodiac


dog soldier

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I have been reading up on this unknown killer. I just wanted to know what people thought about him/her. Any thoughts about who it was? What about the unsolved cryptogram that was sent? It could of been a woman. They can kill and not get caught easier. Maybe that is why?

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It probably was a male, due to descriptions of the suspect(s).

I think it's a really interesting case, he seems to be a pretty complex guy.

I'd like for someone to solve those cryptograms.

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Oh, I'm quite sure Zodiac was male. At least one of his victims survived and reported a man wearing a hood with a zodiac sign on a vest over his shirt. Definitely male.

I read the book, "The Zodiac Killer" years ago. Or perbaps it was "Zodiac." I no longer have that paperback so I can't cite the author.

It was a fascinating book, though creepy at the same time.

I suspect that Zodiac was imprisoned for a lesser offense, or perhaps left the country. After all, San Francisco is a major port city. He was not heard from for some years, then a message was received again. As I recall, there were no doubts about the later message's authenticity.

Somehow, the authorities could determine which messages were real and which were fake. I suspect that Zodiac used a certain paper, perhaps positioned a stamp in such a way, or employed any other number of devices to indicate to authorities this was a genuine letter.

He would have established such a code early on.

It remains one of the great unsolved crimes. I doubt it will ever be solved; I'm sure Zodiac is long dead. Serial killers often have massive egos that require them to stay in the public eye. It's totally out of character for a serial killer to suddenly stop murdering, then return to a normal life.

Zodiac was not stupid. He very likely crafted that code to be utter nonsense, so the authorities would spend a lot of resources on time on it. It was his idea of a joke, I suppose. Some of his codes were deciphered, but those were not terribly complicated codes.

I believe that his undeciphered code(s) were just red herrings, intended to aggravate the police and actually have no meaning.

Just my opinion, mind you.

I remember being a kid in Spokane, Wash., and being scared of Zodiac some 1,500 miles south in San Francisco. Zodiac was like a boogeyman to us kids in the neighborhood. It was all over the news for months and creeped everyone out.

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Serial killers often have massive egos that require them to stay in the public eye.

Hah, especially the Zodiac.

He was always pressing the newspaper people to publish his notes, and he'd

get angry when they ignored him.

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Oh, I'm quite sure Zodiac was male. At least one of his victims survived and reported a man wearing a hood with a zodiac sign on a vest over his shirt. Definitely male.

I read the book, "The Zodiac Killer" years ago. Or perbaps it was "Zodiac." I no longer have that paperback so I can't cite the author.

It was a fascinating book, though creepy at the same time.

I suspect that Zodiac was imprisoned for a lesser offense, or perhaps left the country. After all, San Francisco is a major port city. He was not heard from for some years, then a message was received again. As I recall, there were no doubts about the later message's authenticity.

Somehow, the authorities could determine which messages were real and which were fake. I suspect that Zodiac used a certain paper, perhaps positioned a stamp in such a way, or employed any other number of devices to indicate to authorities this was a genuine letter.

He would have established such a code early on.

It remains one of the great unsolved crimes. I doubt it will ever be solved; I'm sure Zodiac is long dead. Serial killers often have massive egos that require them to stay in the public eye. It's totally out of character for a serial killer to suddenly stop murdering, then return to a normal life.

Zodiac was not stupid. He very likely crafted that code to be utter nonsense, so the authorities would spend a lot of resources on time on it. It was his idea of a joke, I suppose. Some of his codes were deciphered, but those were not terribly complicated codes.

I believe that his undeciphered code(s) were just red herrings, intended to aggravate the police and actually have no meaning.

Just my opinion, mind you.

I remember being a kid in Spokane, Wash., and being scared of Zodiac some 1,500 miles south in San Francisco. Zodiac was like a boogeyman to us kids in the neighborhood. It was all over the news for months and creeped everyone out.

Interesting post and a good read.

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Yeah the majority of serials are male, a female serial like Eileen W is rare, at least right now they are. But then again women ARE very sneaky.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah the majority of serials are male, a female serial like Eileen W is rare, at least right now they are. But then again women ARE very sneaky.

If there were more female serial killers out ther more would be caught.... I think the assumption the 95 to 98% of them are males is pretty on the money here. Women can do this yes but it is not very likely.

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Actually its not really an assumption its closer to verfiable fact. 3-5% of the male population are sociopaths, only half a percent of women are.

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maybe the women just aren't discovered for what they do, contactismade is right, they are pretty sneaky...

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I'm going to generalize here for a minute so have you hats ready. It might be because women covet life more than men do. After all they can carry another life in them. I think that ability alone would make even the worst kind of woman more nurturing than most men. Now all you modern dads don't get mad at me, it is true and you know it.

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This is from the link that Dennis Kaufmann posted:

"The suspect in the photo's above is Jack Tarrance, Jack has been the focus of the zodiac investigation which was reopened in 2000. Jack Tarrance passed away on August 26, 2006 in Olympia, Washington at age 78.

The reason that Jack was never arrested for the zodiac murders was because of departmental jealousy amongst law enforcement, especially the San Francisco Police department.

I will say this, if the SFPD would have cooperated with the FBI and other law enforcement agencies in this matter, Jack would have been arrested for the zodiac crimes.

In November 0f 2000, the FBI contacted the SFPD and asked them for an original zodiac letter so their laboratory could get a DNA profile. The FBI guaranteed to have the results back in thirty days, the SFPD refused to send the letter and was only willing to have the letter tested in their own laboratory ..."

Perhaps for good reason, Dennis.

Remember the big scandal about the FBI Crime Lab being so disorganized that evidence was lost or incorrectly interpreted.

To say that Zodiac was never arrested because of departmental jealousies is ludicrous. There has long been tremendous pressure to prosecute the Zodiac killer. Any department who announced they had a suspect would have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Let's face facts: Despite all our modern crime-busting equipment and techniques, investigations are still at the mercy of questionable information provided by rattled witnesses, and how well the crime scene is preserved and gone over.

When Zodiac was at his peak, crime scene investigation was primitive by today's standards and much evidence taken today was not even considered back then.

It's just a fact of life: some crimes never get solved. No suspect is ever apprehended. And some suspects are innocent.

Only on TV and in the movies does the crime get solved and the proper suspect prosecuted.

I told him that I discovered who he was and that I wanted to write a book about his life and it wouldn't be published until after his death, and it worked … After months of gathering evidence, I felt I had enough to get law enforcement to listen. On October 5, 2000, I went to the F.B.I. in Sacramento Ca. and … (presented) … my case.

I have personally witnessed the politics surrounding this case, and it is such a high profile case so it seems every agency wants to say, "I'm the one that solved it".

During my personal investigation I made some bizzare discoveries that are almost unbelievable. Yet, the facts found are accurately and completely undeniable!

Once I discovered the "truth" surrounding this case, the "truth" became more mysterious than the mystery itself! This is a real life tragedy for the victims’ families, as well as myself.

When I am able to tell my life story, you will realize that this is a situation where the truth is by far stranger than fiction!!

Knew it! Has a book to sell or the rights to one!

Someone trying to sell a book is hardly an objective source.

Oh, you’ve presented all kinds of “evidence” on your website but I’m not convinced. Such “evidence” can be manufactured or tweaked to make it all the more intriguing and fit your theories.

What did you not include that didn't fit your scenario?

Who are you, Dennis? Were you in on the investigation? Did you cover it as a reporter and, thus, presumably privy to information that didn’t make it into the newspapers?

Or are you just another conspiracist with a book to sell?

You may be right. I may be wrong. But without knowing how you came about the information, I remain very skeptical of your claims.

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  • 4 weeks later...
I have been reading up on this unknown killer. I just wanted to know what people thought about him/her. Any thoughts about who it was? What about the unsolved cryptogram that was sent? It could of been a woman. They can kill and not get caught easier. Maybe that is why?

I don't know how long ago, but Unsolved Mysteries aired a special promoting the theory that Theodore Kaczynski(the unabomber) was The Zodiac Killer. There was some evidence that Ted signed his high school yearbook with the crosshair inside of a cross(the same insignia on The Zodiac's letters to the police). Ted was a also a genius with cryptographs(just like the letters). I don't know what to think of that theory, but i'll keep hunting...

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Oh, how I remember hearing about Zodiac. I believe that these murders were done by a man, mostly because of the way eye witnesses described the killer. Do I think he is dead? Perhaps. Do I think he spent time in jail? Probably on unrelated charges. Is it possible that Jack Tarrance is/was the Zodiac? He might have been. I think it might go the way of cases like Jack the Ripper...never solved. Good therories, good suspects...lack of concrete evidence. :(

I'm kinda looking forward to the movie coming out next year...March 2nd for US. It's been years since I read the book. :hmm: Hmmm...I think I might still have the paperback I read back in college. Gotta go look!

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  • 2 weeks later...

On one of Russian-speaking criminal forums there was very interesting discussion about the Zodiac and the author of big Russian clause about it has expressed at a forum the opinion. It is so interesting, that I have decided to translate it completely:

I shall begin a little not on a theme, but then you will understand why so be typed a few patiences and read up. It is considered, that on everyone 5 million person. The population 1 sexual murderer-maniac (approximately, certainly) always operates. Even if it catch, shortly to it on change there is another, ò. å. The specified proportion is supported constantly. Simple calculation shows, that for Russia at a similar proportion the general number of constantly operating sexual murderers is made the order by 25-30 person., for the USA - approximately 60 person. How many they are caught? The statistics is crafty, the serial criminality is dissolved in the general number condemned for deliberate murders. How much I know, for 10 years of existence of the Russian Federation (i.e. 1992-2002) in the territories entering into present Southern federal district number of condemned persons, falling under household concept "maniac", has made by different calculations 22-26 person (on any, up to 30 person.) . Considering, that the Southern federal district gives overwhelming majority of plural sexual criminality, it turns out, that in a year 2-3 maniacs were exposed. In other territories it is less, as there an acuteness of this problem a little below. In any case, in my opinion, in Russia it is exposed less than half of actively operating sexual maniacs. If who has authentic statistics the Gene. The Offices of Public Prosecutor, capable to throw light on this question, favour I ask to announce it, to me it is unknown. But surrenders to me, that such statistics will not deny my internal voice of the rights and a conclusion drawn above. What turns out? The Significant number of serial murderers avoids exposure. Very much dexterously them catch only in the American films, in a life all turns out much more clumsily.

The Zodiac is interesting to that on the one hand it went on dialogue (we shall tell so, on contact) with press and police, and with another - has successfully avoided exposure. Considering its letters, studying materials about its activity, it starts to seem, that somewhere beside, just about, will blab out, will leave çàöåïêó, will make a slip and so forth also I (i.e. the reader) this mistake of the criminal I shall notice also it I shall expose. About this feeling to me was spoken by the most different people read my sketch. I perfectly give myself the report that this sensation at all charm of my style - it is consequence of that impression, which tried to make (and made) the Zodiac. In this game - its innovation, its firm style. To be under a delusion it is not necessary. History with the Zodiac just that case when detailed elaboration and excessive details only obscure business and confuse. I could write a sketch twice to greater on the size and with much lot of various details, but have meaningly limited myself, clearly giving the report, that excessive immersing in different sorts of a particular only will stir up all picture and will disorient the reader. Reflecting above this business, I have come to following conclusions which, certainly, could not state in a sketch as such statements contradict style of a site (" Mysterious crimes of the past " do not offer the point of view on described events, and only systematize the facts on business):

1. Letters of the Zodiac - the tool of disinformation. Informing in the first letters authentic data, it aspired to cause trust to them but only that in the further to use the messages for a desorientation of consequence. Therefore its literary trash it is not necessary to take on belief;

2. The zodiac did not make that quantity of murders on which insisted in the late messages;

3. The zodiac did not get in sight law enforcement bodies IN GENERAL. Its prints of fingers were available at the disposal of FBI, and FBI it did not doubt that its prints of fingers. I suppose, that actually these prints have appeared at all after murder of the taxi driver, and much earlier, simply it disappeared. The given fact () means presence of a dactyloscopic card of the Zodiac or prints of separate parts of fingers and palms, that all suspected were checked on concurrence of prints. So, among suspected it at all was not;

4. Histories of some persons looked rather suspiciously, certainly, are interesting, but to business do not concern. It is not necessary to be under a delusion in this respect. Everything, that inspired suspicions concerning these people - an essence of concurrence and no more that. To think differently, means to confuse itself;

5. It is obvious To me, that the Zodiac was the person " patients in all head ", defective, cowardly and irresolute. Yes, it bravely shot people from a pistol, to kill a shot from fire-arms in general simply. But here on lake Berissa it has admitted obvious weakness, I think, during any moment it was ready to refuse murder and if the couple which it has attacked, would lead itself with it a little differently - would try to move to pity, would began to complain about a life and ïð.-that it, most likely, at all would not start a knife. Perhaps, would shoot from a pistol. But in how it sticked with a knife into the CONNECTED VICTIMS it is not felt not only hands of the killer, but even a strong man's hand. I think, during any moment it was ready to refuse murder and if the couple which it has attacked, would lead itself with it a little differently - would try to communicate to it, to move to pity it, would began to complain about a life and ïð.-that it, most likely, at all would not start a knife. Perhaps, would shoot from a pistol. But in how it sticked with a knife into the CONNECTED VICTIMS it is not felt not only hands of the killer, but even a strong man's hand. About any special military preparation at the Zodiac cannot be and speeches, I insist on it categorically. Can not doubt, the person having special preparation, would kill a couple on lake Berissa absolutely differently. Weakness of character it is very convex it was showed in history with abduction of the woman with the child which HAS escaped FROM IT. It in general in a head does not keep within! It some hours went for a drive with it on roads, not being solved on murder (not being solved). Can imagine Chikatilo, Gasy or Dahmer which like would be going to make murder, have stolen a victim and during several hours could not be solved on murder? Item 5 is very important, it confirms item 1; in the letters the Zodiac draws itself " the abrupt murderer ", but it only attempt of psychological indemnification. Actually it was pity, cowardly and deeply psychologically the defective person, the single, probably, the impotent man. Its "project" of undermining of the school bus - the present schizophrenia;

6. My assumption of the further destiny of the Zodiac follows From all above-stated. This person felt necessity to humiliate, intimidate, be drawn before associates (to recollect its detailed story on lake Berissa what, say, it the criminal, has made runaway enough and so forth For what all it to speak people which it íàìåðâàëñÿ to kill? Only to amuse itself; it spoke, and it ï¸ðëî, it simply enjoyed itself(himself) that minute). The subsequent murder followed from these needs. It tried to shoot at love couples, tried to knife. Experiments with a knife have not liked it, probably, have frightened it, probably, it has felt own cowardice. Anyway, it has refused attacks with a knife and has returned to a pistol. Finally, after murder of the taxi driver it has refused the further attacks. Probably, it was frightened with that circumstance, that its prints of fingers have got to law enforcement bodies (and newspapers have informed on it in the presumable form). Probably, it that there were the people, capable still has more frightened it îïîçíàòü (the escaped woman and the teenagers seen as it has shot the taxi driver). Anyway, the Zodiac has refused the further murders. MURDER OF THE TAXI DRIVER IN THE SAN-FRANCISCO IS LAST MURDER OF YHE ZODIAC! Within several years it still tried to write letters, "was compensated" in a similar way in own eyes, but finally started by it the mechanism of self-destruction has pushed it to a unique output - it has finished with itself(himself). It was humiliated every day with a life: it could not earn enough money, it could not receive the woman whom wished, it could not live how wanted, with it did not respect or even despised associates (anyway, it so believed). It should be compensated, remove this stress, to prove to itself, that it " abrupt the man, instead of a pettiness ", but... To make it it could not any more. Was afraid of witnesses who were at police, was afraid of the left prints of fingers. From here various consequences of accrued stress - infringement of a dream, frustration of digestion, nervous system, which and so it was deeply unhealthy. It could not remove stress murder therefore it has removed its suicide. The Zodiac not only has not lived up to 1990, but even up to 1980 I Think, that it has finished with itself(himself) somewhere in 1974 (most later), but most likely, even earlier, in a year approximately per 1972 I Believe, that late letters of the Zodiac could be forged a different sort by fools-imitators.

Such here my opinion on this person and its crimes.

In occasion of why maniacs become only men, Russian scientist A.Buhanovsky has well told in interview:

It concerns exclusively boys?

Yes. The maniac is always the man. This property of a man's brain. I know in a world practice only 2 cases, when serial the murderer of steel of the woman. From my point of view (under descriptions available me), they in the childhood developed as òðàíññåêñóàëêè. At these women - a man's brain. Similar exceptions only emphasize a rule.

And how to be from Elizabeth Batori who has ruined in 16 century nearby 500 person? Or farmer Belli Brinhild by a nickname the Black widow, by means of strychnine and an axe in 1908 sent to forefathers the whole group, men asked in marriage to it? Or its compatriot " the Killing girl " Aileen Wuornos, the route prostitute from the Florida which have killed in 1989 six clients?

I talk about serial sexual sadistic murders. Not each plural murder is serial. The women named by you had others, not sadistic motives to kill. Most likely, mercenary.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The authorities could determine which letters were fake and which ones were real because they employed a graphologist. Serial killers have a tell in their handwriting that allows graphologists to quickly authenticate a letter.

Oh, I'm quite sure Zodiac was male. At least one of his victims survived and reported a man wearing a hood with a zodiac sign on a vest over his shirt. Definitely male.

I read the book, "The Zodiac Killer" years ago. Or perbaps it was "Zodiac." I no longer have that paperback so I can't cite the author.

It was a fascinating book, though creepy at the same time.

I suspect that Zodiac was imprisoned for a lesser offense, or perhaps left the country. After all, San Francisco is a major port city. He was not heard from for some years, then a message was received again. As I recall, there were no doubts about the later message's authenticity.

Somehow, the authorities could determine which messages were real and which were fake. I suspect that Zodiac used a certain paper, perhaps positioned a stamp in such a way, or employed any other number of devices to indicate to authorities this was a genuine letter.

He would have established such a code early on.

It remains one of the great unsolved crimes. I doubt it will ever be solved; I'm sure Zodiac is long dead. Serial killers often have massive egos that require them to stay in the public eye. It's totally out of character for a serial killer to suddenly stop murdering, then return to a normal life.

Zodiac was not stupid. He very likely crafted that code to be utter nonsense, so the authorities would spend a lot of resources on time on it. It was his idea of a joke, I suppose. Some of his codes were deciphered, but those were not terribly complicated codes.

I believe that his undeciphered code(s) were just red herrings, intended to aggravate the police and actually have no meaning.

Just my opinion, mind you.

I remember being a kid in Spokane, Wash., and being scared of Zodiac some 1,500 miles south in San Francisco. Zodiac was like a boogeyman to us kids in the neighborhood. It was all over the news for months and creeped everyone out.

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from all i have heard,and read on zodiac,he was most likely a man named arthur lee allen,a convicted child molester and petty criminal.i can't wait to see the movie,and see how much close the real investigation and the movie are!i heard about the unabomber theory,the way zodiac killed is not like his M.O was.he was too much of a coward to kill like zodiac did!

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  • 1 month later...
It could of been a woman. They can kill and not get caught easier. Maybe that is why?

Only a woman woul say that. A woman is a far bigger risk to get caught because one of the male victims could overpower her. Also, men can hide things better. How many women have you ever heard of with a dark past or some deep secret that they wouldn't share with anyone? None, I know.

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Not if she had a gun. How many women have you met in total?!

"...some dark secret they wouldn't share with anyone"

So, TS, how would anyone know about 'em? Yeah huh?

The Zodiac could easily be a woman

because, because, because, becaaaaauuuuuussssssse,

because of the horrible things she does.

Statistically, the Zodiac is probably male, but not necessarily. Could be a woman, while the law went look'n for their man.

But anyhoo, what sign are they? I reckon Sagitarrius.

Like Billy Conolly said, half man, half horse, licence to shh...it in the street.

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Not a woman.

How do you know for sure? Was it you? :D

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Well, those who survived the Zodiac's killing described its voice as being male. Its hairy forearms as being male. Its build as male. Though Zodiac wore a mask, every single survivor described it as a male.

I mean, if it quacks like a duck ... must be a duck, eh?

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