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#1    MissJatti

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:45 PM

Did mythical creatures/being exists or still do exists.
Did those stories (now regarded has a myths/legends) ever happened.
I think they did.
When I think about ancient myths/legends......., were people so smart enough to make up a mythical creature story, or any story that was not true, that lasted a few thousand years....
Yes OK, maybe somebody made a false story up, but them stories are forgotten with in a few decades.
The only reason I can think, of those stories/myths of lasting millenia after millenia is, them stories/myhs were true OR based around a true event
For instance I am living in 5000BC, I, like every other people, work very hard every day to make a scratch of living.. There is no time at all to be day dreaming in any way, of mythical creature, or tell a story about mythical events. I believe the minds in them days were way to fickle to understand fully what happens in them days.

I mean people from thousands of years back didn’t have the resources or knowledge to make up such mythical creatures/stories, unless they saw it, or saw something similar to it.
Even today people are discovering new creature so weird that we presume it is from outa space, or looks so similar to a mythical creature from the books.

People today can make up creatures/beings, because we see them everyday, in television, books, internet and so on.
But even in the early days of television, the creatures/monsters we see on television everyday, are some what based on creatures we see in the mythology books.

I like to give you people a example:s
1. Medusa... Now when I look at Medusa, I see a huge snake swallowing a human female, from legs up.. Also that females hair was long with dread locks. But I cannot begin to guess how Medusa made men into stone...
Maybe its a severe case of F.O.P -  Fibrodysplasia Ossificans Progressiva.,
2. Over the centuries, we have heard about babies being born with multiple limbs. One of the most recent and famous was a girl named Lakshmi Tatma, who had 4 arms and hands and 4 legs and feets. By looking at this baby, it got me thinking about the myths, goddesses/deities, especially from the south Asia legends. Perhaps some one was born in that region, tens of thousands years ago, in the same way Lakshmi Tatma did, and survives into her adult hood. Because of this miracle, they named that person a goddess.

With these two examples, I believe all stories in the ancient times is some what true, with a bit of logic and common sense, we can decode them easily.




I know I'm not much of an expert on this topic, and I did just stumble on this forum post (Cryptozoology Myths and Legends), but I did feel like expressing my opinions.

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#2    Sean93

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

I wish they did; there's a lot of myths I wish were true...but alas, it's "Just a myth".

Like how badass would it have been to have been some mage fighting dragons and trolls?

Nowadays we still fight trolls, but they look more like this:
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John Tolkien said something to C.S Lewis along the lines of: "There are myths but I believe there are true myths."
Subsequently, C.S Lewis felt a chill in the room and converted after John said this...I wish it was that easy to believe in something strongly, god knows I'd love to believe in myths at times.

Of course, I do think you're underestimating the imagination of those of the past. It's not that hard to imagine a creature of myth. Notice how most if not all mythical creatures and events and gods relate to the human world, like animals and the elements:
Thor = Thunder
Centaurs = man and a horse
Elves = pretty much human, same for Dwarves etc. just with notable features.
Dragons = Lizards
Wizards = probably inspired by druids or alchemists who exploited the gullible.
Prophets = Men carrying claims to the gullible and illiterate.
Acts of God = Nature (The parting of the sea, Thor's chariot etc.)

We're pattern seeking mammals and we'll take a bogus theory rather than having no theory at all.

It's fun though, having myths to enjoy because real life is dull for the most part.

Edited by Sean93, 12 January 2013 - 03:08 PM.

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#3    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:10 PM

View PostKevinT, on 12 January 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:



I mean people from thousands of years back didn’t have the resources or knowledge to make up such mythical creatures/stories, unless they saw it, or saw something similar to it.


People from thousands of years ago were likely MORE skilled at coming up with fictional stories, because storytelling was a large part of many ancient cultures.  They were not like us - with brains accustomed to being entertained for us by constant bombardment by electronic devices.

Myths are just that - myths.  They are make believe.  There may be some that are built around a grain of truth, much like the creation stories of Native American cultures.

But largely, with the exception of those creatures who have gone extinct, during humanity's time ancient people had the same animals we do now.  There weren't dragons, minotaurs, etc.....   Those are just stories.

Just because a story has survived over the millenia doesn't magically prove it was true to begin with.  All it proves is that it was interesting enough that people chose to retell it - that it connected with our collective human psyche somehow.  There is no logic in the statement that just because a story is old, it is therefore true.  Learn to separate reality from make-believe - its a valuable skill.


#4    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:22 PM

View PostSean93, on 12 January 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

I wish they did; there's a lot of myths I wish were true...but alas, it's "Just a myth".

Like how badass would it have been to have been some mage fighting dragons and trolls?

Nowadays we still fight trolls, but they look more like this:
Posted Image

John Tolkien said something to C.S Lewis along the lines of: "There are myths but I believe there are true myths."
Subsequently, C.S Lewis felt a chill in the room and converted after John said this...I wish it was that easy to believe in something strongly, god knows I'd love to believe in myths at times.

Of course, I do think you're underestimating the imagination of those of the past. It's not that hard to imagine a creature of myth. Notice how most if not all mythical creatures and events and gods relate to the human world, like animals and the elements:
Thor = Thunder
Centaurs = man and a horse
Elves = pretty much human, same for Dwarves etc. just with notable features.
Dragons = Lizards
Wizards = probably inspired by druids or alchemists who exploited the gullible.
Prophets = Men carrying claims to the gullible and illiterate.
Acts of God = Nature (The parting of the sea, Thor's chariot etc.)

We're pattern seeking mammals and we'll take a bogus theory rather than having no theory at all.

It's fun though, having myths to enjoy because real life is dull for the most part.
You make really good points and I couldnt have said it better :tu:

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#5    pallidin

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:53 PM

Some people believed the world was flat, other people believed the world was held up by elephants.

Many other's believed that the sun and moon were "gods"

Other's believed there were large, flying, fire-spewing dragons.

---------------------------------

None of which has shown to have any basis in reality.

It's amazing/disturbing what the ancients thought of, having no true knowledge of the world, and the "respected" shamans on hallucinigens.

EDIT: I'll get back to you on this subject after I finish my well-prepared dish of peyote, psilocybin mushrooms, and fermented marula fruit, whilst staring at the flames of my camp-fire.  :passifier:

Edited by pallidin, 12 January 2013 - 06:21 PM.


#6    Urisk

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

View Postorangepeaceful79, on 12 January 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

People from thousands of years ago were likely MORE skilled at coming up with fictional stories, because storytelling was a large part of many ancient cultures.  They were not like us - with brains accustomed to being entertained for us by constant bombardment by electronic devices.

Quoted for absolute truth! :tsu:


Myths were and are nothing less than a medium used to explain certain natural phenomena that previously could not be explained by science of the time. Also tales of herioc deeds and fabulous Gods and monsters was a result of 1) looking at the world without the sad cynicism we have today and 2) long cold dark nights by nowt but a roaring fire. You look at Bronze and Iron Age myths and legends, and compare them to the crap we see in the cinema week in week out: carbon-copy superhero films and remakes.

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#7    MissJatti

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:37 AM

yes it is really hard to believe a myth could be true or based on some true, because we associate these stories as simply myths.
these stories were told and retold over a long time, but the creatures or events never are reborn. so they just become myths/legend.

Even today, people discover items, city even that was previously regarded as a myth

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#8    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:44 PM

View PostKevinT, on 15 January 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:


Even today, people discover items, city even that was previously regarded as a myth

Citation please?  Can you give an example of this?


#9    Ashotep

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:02 AM

Maybe some myths could be based on fact, you never know but I think the majority of them were made up to scare children and fools.


#10    burkorobe

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:21 AM

I wish they did; there's a lot of myths I wish were true.


#11    shadowlark

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:58 AM

View Postorangepeaceful79, on 15 January 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Citation please?  Can you give an example of this?

Troy. Pompeii. Ok, they weren't discovered THAT recently, but both had passed into legend (Troy more so) before being rediscovered.


#12    MissJatti

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:01 AM

yes shadlark.. but not only troy and pompeii, machu picchu was a myth until it was discovered, angkor, memphis, petra, palmrya, palenque, vijarangar, ephiesus, sanchi, all were cities of myth until they were discovered.

one of the most recent discovery is the mythical city of dwarka, this city was first stumbled upon submerged underwater in the late 1960's. after much examining and reading ancient history book, scratching heads and beards, archaeologists scientists etc have concluded that the submerged city is in fact the ancient city of dwarka

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#13    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:51 AM

View PostSkeptcByMindBelievrByHeart, on 16 January 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

yes shadlark.. but not only troy and pompeii, machu picchu was a myth until it was discovered, angkor, memphis, petra, palmrya, palenque, vijarangar, ephiesus, sanchi, all were cities of myth until they were discovered.

one of the most recent discovery is the mythical city of dwarka, this city was first stumbled upon submerged underwater in the late 1960's. after much examining and reading ancient history book, scratching heads and beards, archaeologists scientists etc have concluded that the submerged city is in fact the ancient city of dwarka

Precisely.  They have discovered evidence of these cities because....**drumroll** THEY ACTUALLY EXISTED.  Unlike the mythical animals you started with in your OP.  No evidence for those has ever been found, nor will it ever, because they were just stories.  Just things that storytellers made up to pass the time or to explain complex phenomenon that nobody understood.


#14    TheSearcher

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:05 AM

View PostSkeptcByMindBelievrByHeart, on 16 January 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

yes shadlark.. but not only troy and pompeii, machu picchu was a myth until it was discovered, angkor, memphis, petra, palmrya, palenque, vijarangar, ephiesus, sanchi, all were cities of myth until they were discovered.

one of the most recent discovery is the mythical city of dwarka, this city was first stumbled upon submerged underwater in the late 1960's. after much examining and reading ancient history book, scratching heads and beards, archaeologists scientists etc have concluded that the submerged city is in fact the ancient city of dwarka

Troy, despite being mentioned in the works of Homer, it was also recognised by ancient historians like Eratosthenes, Herodotus and Duris of Samos. Also there are Hittite and Egyptian texts making reference to it.
So not really a myth as such, although it has been used by quite a few as start point of their own myths.
- Virgil's Aeneid, traces the journeys of the Trojan prince Aeneas, supposed ancestor of the founders of Rome and the Julio-Claudian dynasty.
- The Roman de Troie was common cultural ground for European dynasties, as a Trojan pedigree was both gloriously ancient and established an equality with the ruling class of Rome. Jordanes described how the Goths sacked "Troy and Ilium" after they had recovered from the war with Agamemnon.On that basis, the Franks filled the lacunae of their legendary origins with Trojan and pseudo-Trojan names: in Fredegar's 7th-century chronicle of Frankish history, Priam appears as the first king of the Franks.The Trojan origin of France was such an established article of faith that in 1714, the learned Nicolas Fréret was thrown into the Bastille, for showing that the Franks had been Germanic, a sore point counter to Valois and Bourbon propaganda.
- Geoffrey of Monmouth reworked earlier material such as the Historia Brittonum to trace the legendary kings of the Britons from a supposed descendant of Aeneas called Brutus.
- Snorri Sturluson, in the prologue to his Icelandic Prose Edda, traced the genealogy of the ancestral figures in Norse mythology to characters appearing at Troy in Homer's epic, notably making Thor to be the son of Memnon.

Pompeii, well sorry, but that never was a myth to begin with.The historians of ancient Rome recorded it's demise together with Herculaneum, by way of Vesuvius.

Machu Picchu, not sure why you would list it as a myth? Ok, the Spaniards didn't know about it, during the "Conquista", but I'm unsure how that made it a myth, because the Inca and their descendants did know about it. The Incas built it around 1450, but abandoned it as an official site for the Inca rulers a century later due to the aforementioned Spanish Conquest.

Angkor, served as the seat of the Khmer Empire, which flourished from approximately the 9th to 15th centuries. It was recorded in both Chinese and Vietnamese history, both through it's military campaigns and diplomatic letters. There never was a doubt Angkor existed.

I'm giving these examples to show that there is a misuse of the word myth, a myth is a sacred narrative usually explaining how the world or humankind came to be in its present form. With the exception of maybe Dwarka, none of the above are actual myths. Their location might have been lost at some time, however in one form or the other they were recorded in historic accounts by other cultures.

Like orangepeaceful79 says, they have nothing to do with the legendary animals mentioned before by the OP.

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#15    MissJatti

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:22 PM

Gorillas, Okapi, Giant Panda, Giraffe, Takin, Python, Giant Squid, Komodo Dragon, Beaked Whale, Tiger, were some of the animals that were once regarded as myths..
As famous as gorillas are today, there was a time in which they were no more than just a myth. over the centuries and millenums  explorers would return from african jungles and tell stories of hairy giant  man beasts of terrible strength and temper, with a nasty habit of abducting and raping women. Such stories were dismissed by scientists of that time as nonsense, and as a result, the gorilla was unknown to science to quite recently.
The first ever documented of gorillas was in 5th century BC by Hano, others try to document the gorillas after Hano, but no luck, since gorillas are very rare to spot, therefore over time becoming a mythical creature.
But when people thousands and thousands years before Hano told stories of these hairy giant beasts, who knows what kind of images people had in their heads.

The Okapi was once regarded as a mythical creature for milleniums. The ancient Egyptians and the pygmies already knew of its existence, however the Europeans did not believe the bewildering stories or that the animals ever existed, and named the creature/story as the african unicorn. It was in 1890 when the animal was discovered and documented in the science book.

The Giant Panda was practically unknown for milleniums even in China, although Chinese artists have constantly depicted black bears and bamboo forests since ancient times, the giant panda was never depicted until the 20th century. Rumors and reports of a strange white bear found in the Chinese mountains were regarded has a myth until 1896.

The giraffe was once too a mythical creature, we have to admit that if we were in before the ancient times, and we did not know or saw a giraffe, but managed to stumble on a few stories and drawings of them, what would go through your mind? The Greeks named this legendary animal as camelopard. And it turns out that Qiin, a legendary beast of Chinese mythology was actually a giraffe, since giraffe use to live in parts of Asia and Europe in prehistoric time.

The Takin has been a mythical creature for a few milleniums especially for the Europeans, and the most famous of myths associated to this animal is Greek myth of The Jason And The Argonauts. It is now believed that the golden fleece belongs to a Golden Takim from the Himalayas. It was first discovered by europeans in 1850.

Today we tend to imagine dragons as being more dinosaur like, but early historians actually describe them as being huge serpent type creature. Mythical stories of dragons coiling around their prey and crushing them to death. These stories are normally found in China all the way down south west into India. It was only a few centuries ago, when a European explorer was shown these so called dragons on numerous occasions. And what the explorer described, turned out to be a Python.

Mythical sea creatures such as Kraken, Scyilla, were regarded as a myth, told by people who actually saw the creature from many milleniums ago, over the years new and new encounters and story, with the creature happened. The details of the creature in them stories and drawings, totally resembles the Giant Squid. There was an encounter where the crew believed it was the Kraken, ended up to be a Giant Squid, since they managed to get hold of a piece of the creatures tail, in 1861. It was then the Giant Squid was discovered.

There have been many stories about Komodo Dragons from Indonesia many millenums ago. And over time these stories reached these mainlands, then into south east Asia, and ultimately to the Europeans. The stories changed from one generations to the other, and for many centuries, were just myths. Such as lizards as big as houses, or lizards which has poisonous venom. The imagination is endless, to the ancient folks. And the stories from the people trying to capture the animal over the years, made this animal just a myth. It was only in 1926 the animal was captured for the science world. It was only when people put the two together (Myth and science), we got to know where the stories came from.

​Beaked Whales were first described in medieval times, but since it rarity and difficult to see them, it became a myth, until the 1900's

Even Tigers are a well known animal these days, but it was not so, in ancient times. They have been myths about the animal, way before the explorer Ctesias arrived in India. We never will know if Ctesias ever saw a tiger, but the people of India did describe the tiger to Ctesias in great detail. Also the people of India described the tigers behavior to be such a fearsome creature, so frightening, that it was passed on from one to another owning to their excessive dread of the beast. Once these stories came to Greece, the people made their own conclusion of how the tiger looked like.

Not only these, but there are myths in the making even today. for example, big foot.. huge eagles, hobbit type creature, vampire type beasts, new jearsey devil, mothman, lizard monster. It will not be long, when tthese creatures be found as a existing creature or a newly discovered creature..

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