181 replies to this topic

[Frank Merton]

We each have to work out our own destinies, and I expect that applies to each nation too.  Nothing lasts forever, and the States is either at the beginning of a period of world domination or at the end of its hegemony.  Probably the latter.

Change is constant.

The business about America's military-industrial complex has been around all my life, and I never gave it much credit.  It's the sort of slogan that has a certain logic that gives it an appeal, but it isn't really credible when you think about it, especially when you consider who is the President at the moment, and this complex was not able to keep him out of office.

I'm not saying that I deny that the military and the big corporations have a lot of influence in the US, nor that their influence is especially good.  All I'm saying is that one needs to look at things in a more balanced way.  Generally when the US gets itself involved in foreign tar traps, it is not the military that pushes for it, but the ideologues.  

Well this has been a disjointed response.

[iNvRG]

Likely Guy, on 27 January 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

I'm not an expert, but the 2nd ammendmant refers to 'a well organized militia'.

If I'm wrong, please educate. Where is the organized militia?

I think Penn and Teller explain it best

[preacherman76]

Frank Merton, on 29 January 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

We each have to work out our own destinies, and I expect that applies to each nation too.  Nothing lasts forever, and the States is either at the beginning of a period of world domination or at the end of its hegemony.  Probably the latter.

Change is constant.

The business about America's military-industrial complex has been around all my life, and I never gave it much credit.  It's the sort of slogan that has a certain logic that gives it an appeal, but it isn't really credible when you think about it, especially when you consider who is the President at the moment, and this complex was not able to keep him out of office.

I'm not saying that I deny that the military and the big corporations have a lot of influence in the US, nor that their influence is especially good.  All I'm saying is that one needs to look at things in a more balanced way.  Generally when the US gets itself involved in foreign tar traps, it is not the military that pushes for it, but the ideologues.  

Well this has been a disjointed response.

Why would they want to keep him outta office? He is every bit the warmonger that Bush was. We are talking about a man who is bombing countries we are not even at war with. You gotta stop listening to them, and instead watch what actualy happens. 0bama is as owned by the MIC as any former president.

[AsteroidX]

Quote

Generally when the US gets itself involved in foreign tar traps, it is not the military that pushes for it, but the ideologues.  

This is EXTREMELY true. The military industrial complex is the ideologues making money off this. Perhaps we were using too different meanings.

[Frank Merton]

AsteroidX, on 29 January 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

This is EXTREMELY true. The military industrial complex is the ideologues making money off this. Perhaps we were using too different meanings.

When I talk about ideologues I have in mind not the ones making money off these things but the ones that think the US view of things is the only possibly good view.

The American involvement in Vietnam was ideological.  There were those who saw Communism as this ghoulish threat that just had to be stopped.  There were others who saw S. Vietnam as the victim of aggression.  Both of these groups pushed that America had the responsibility (why I don't know) to fix the world's evils, as they perceived them.  I don't think many made much money off the episode, and the net cost to the US in money, lives, and reputation was horrible.

[AsteroidX]

Quote

The American involvement in Vietnam was ideological.  There were those who saw Communism as this ghoulish threat that just had to be stopped.  There were others who saw S. Vietnam as the victim of aggression.  Both of these groups pushed that America had the responsibility (why I don't know) to fix the world's evils, as they perceived them.  I don't think many made much money off the episode, and the net cost to the US in money, lives, and reputation was horrible.

There was alot of money made by a select few. This trend continues today.

[Uncle Sam]

iNvRG, on 29 January 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

I think Penn and Teller explain it best

Oh... I love Penn and Teller. They think like I do.

[AsteroidX]

@Uncle Sam..We got another one today in Houston

[preacherman76]

Frank Merton, on 29 January 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

When I talk about ideologues I have in mind not the ones making money off these things but the ones that think the US view of things is the only possibly good view.

The American involvement in Vietnam was ideological.  There were those who saw Communism as this ghoulish threat that just had to be stopped.  There were others who saw S. Vietnam as the victim of aggression.  Both of these groups pushed that America had the responsibility (why I don't know) to fix the world's evils, as they perceived them.  I don't think many made much money off the episode, and the net cost to the US in money, lives, and reputation was horrible.

Oh Frank you are so close to the truth it is scary. Just ask yourself who is shaping peoples ideology? When you look at the interlocking web between government, media, and the MIC, you always find that every conflict we have had since ww2 was based on lies, to serve special interest.

[Frank Merton]

AsteroidX, on 29 January 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

There was alot of money made by a select few. This trend continues today.

Oh, of course; there are always people who make money off such things.  To conclude that they control things is a large jump.

As I have posted before, if there is a ruling class in America, it is the lawyers.  That is partly why America has so many of them per capita compared to anyone else.

Other than that, the power structure in the US is overwhelmingly complicated.

[preacherman76]

AsteroidX, on 29 January 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

@Uncle Sam..We got another one today in Houston

This is just flat out sick. This is training people to accept that war zone situations in this country are normal

[preacherman76]

Frank Merton, on 29 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Oh, of course; there are always people who make money off such things. To conclude that they control things is a large jump.

As I have posted before, if there is a ruling class in America, it is the lawyers.  That is partly why America has so many of them per capita compared to anyone else.

Other than that, the power structure in the US is overwhelmingly complicated.

[AsteroidX]

Quote

Oh, of course; there are always people who make money off such things.  To conclude that they control things is a large jump.

As I have posted before, if there is a ruling class in America, it is the lawyers.  That is partly why America has so many of them per capita compared to anyone else.

Other than that, the power structure in the US is overwhelmingly complicated.

To be helpful they are the same people and add Big bankers and you have the full group that makes money off this for generations now. Nobody else profits only suffers.

[CRYSiiSx2]

People just need to realize.  Obama is nothing more than a steaming pile of ****.

[Uncle Sam]

AsteroidX, on 29 January 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

@Uncle Sam..We got another one today in Houston

I am not mad that they are doing this, our army should be prepared to defend us in a event of a invasion. But the motives is what I like to know... as of right now, I don't see any chance of being invaded at the moment.