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Response to "no scientific evidence" of ghost


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#31    Avallaine

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:24 AM

View Postlestatdelioncourt, on 11 September 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

What would you say to those who say there is no scientific proof of paranormal (ghosts)?

I would say: "...yet."


#32    rustygh

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:57 AM

I would say you were hoping for a ghost fest of a thread by including only your cohorts in ghost believing.  Not gonna happen here.  :)
Sorry buddy ghosts are for kids.


#33    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 10:10 AM

View PostInn Spectre, on 14 September 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

"People" have tried to prove the existence of ghosts with methods they may consider swcientific, but show me where actual scientists have used their resources for so doing.
Professor Richard Wiseman for starters.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#34    Angel1510

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:59 PM

Atheists would dispute the possibility of spirit.  There is no proof of it.  We refer to it as an energy and surely if that is the case we should be able to produce a scientific experiment to actually prove it. An atheist friend of mine would always ridicule me we I talked to him about my investigating and what we perceive ghosts/spirits to be.  He poo-pooed the possibility that we have a life-force within us, a kind of energy, which never dies.  The truth is we do not know actually the nature of spirit.  We use EMF readers in our investigations and we try to be as scientific as possible by using at least three.  If you get a reaction from all three surely this is more credible than just one machine malfunctioning.  Even them, we are assuming some kind of electrical activity.  This seems to be a general consensus of opinion but in reality we don't really know. The most convincing evidence I have heard is from EVPs, by far the most frequent.  There are sceptics who would attribute the sounds or voices to every day phenomena and in most cases this is true but there are definitely  more than a few cases which are clearly spoken words in reaction to a question posed in a silent room.  At the time, you could hear a pin drop in the room.  I personally believe the method to scientifically prove the existence of the afterlife has not yet been discovered and until that day we have to make do with our primitive attempts.


#35    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:22 PM

View Postrustygh, on 14 September 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I would say you were hoping for a ghost fest of a thread by including only your cohorts in ghost believing.  Not gonna happen here.  :)
Sorry buddy ghosts are for kids.
I think ghosts (spirits of the dead) might in some case hang around a little while out of the desire to hold onto what has been lost, but soon reality sets in and they go away.  As I have said before, I don't think they would be detectable because they are disembodied, so I discredit the claims on logical grounds.  Such a thing of course is unscientific and there will never be any sort of credible evidence one way or the other.  The default therefore would normally be disbelief -- not rejection but just not "believing."


#36    sam_comm

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:20 AM

View Postrustygh, on 14 September 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Sorry buddy ghosts are for kids.


I feel I must disagree. I would be curious as to what exactly you have to offer, besides your personal opinion that support your claim. As far as I know, many an adult writte books sharing their experiences of the phenomenon and others are out there investigating, involved in an organisation or a local group with all the ressources they can get.

In a Huffington/YouGov poll on the 6th 7th september 2013, on the statement: ''I believe some people have experiences ghosts'', 16% slightly agree, 24% agree, 20% strongly agree and 12% are not sure. If we rule out the ''not sure'' that still amount to 60% of American we are either open minded or accept the possibilites that this phenomenon is legetimate.

It's Worth what it's Worth but at least it is some data.

We are far from Casper The friendly ghost or Scooby-Doo here.


#37    Purplos

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 02:25 AM

I believe in ghosts. I think I saw a ghost. But I know that we have no scientific evidence for them whatsoever.

Embrace the impossible.

#38    Inn Spectre

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:45 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 14 September 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

Professor Richard Wiseman for starters.
You cannot be serious. All he does is write books trying to convince the reader that there are other interpretations for what they see. I see no evidence of any scientific research by him.
All his books can be bought on ebay for little more than it costs to post them, a fact that speaks volumes in itself.


#39    Inn Spectre

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:55 AM

View PostAngel1510, on 14 September 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Atheists would dispute the possibility of spirit.  There is no proof of it.

Atheists like myself dispute the existence of God due to the total lack of evidence. In the light of an infinity of anecdotal evidence, the concept of ghosts cannot be treated in the same way simply because it is not properly understood.


#40    Frank Merton

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:59 AM

I think we are better off saying we don't know what we saw than jumping to conclusions of something paranormal, since mundane explanations are so much more likely.


#41    Angel1510

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:25 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 15 September 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

I think we are better off saying we don't know what we saw than jumping to conclusions of something paranormal, since mundane explanations are so much more likely.

Everyday occurences which can be explained are classed as 'normal', anything which cannot be explained is classed as paranormal.  Just like UFOs.  Just because they are unidentified flying objects doesn't necessarily make them extra-terrestial.  In the same way, just because something is 'paranormal' doesn't automatically mean it's a ghost.


#42    Frank Merton

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:29 PM

Well technically anything that exists in normal space-time is "normal," even if we are unaware of its presence or don't understand it.

"Paranormal" nevertheless is a useful word to convey the idea of really unexpected and outside the bounds of our usual existence.  Many things "paranormal" may in fact be normal, just not to us.  I repeat my view that when we don't know something's cause, we should not think paranormal but look for more mundane causes and assume them as they really are far more likely.


#43    Angel1510

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:58 PM

I agree, many supposed paranormal occurences can be put down to normal events.  If we do not have an explanation, I guess it will remain a mystery or unexplained event.  The word 'paranormal' is used far too frequently.


#44    sam_comm

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 03:48 PM

View PostAngel1510, on 15 September 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

I agree, many supposed paranormal occurences can be put down to normal events.  If we do not have an explanation, I guess it will remain a mystery or unexplained event.  The word 'paranormal' is used far too frequently.

Let us remeber what the term ''paranormal'' means: A range of phenomenon of established existence or not, which the mechanisimes and causes, unexplainable in the actual state of knowledge and current scientific laws would be attributable to unkown forces, psychic origin (PK, psychokenesis ect.) The prefix ''Para'' pointing to something beside the norm, the scientific consensus.

While I agree with you that some people are quick to jump to a paranormal conclusion, I think this definition make sens in many cases. Disembodied voices, apparitions, movements of objects, shadows ect experienced by more than one person in the same place and sometimes even caught on video and recorders are indeed unexplained events which find no logical scientific explanation. I can't blame people who try to understand and find answers to phenomenon and events that have been experienced and which are not supposed to take place and exist in the field of science.

Edited by sam_comm, 16 September 2013 - 03:55 PM.


#45    Angel1510

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:01 PM

View Postsam_comm, on 16 September 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:


While I agree with you that some people are quick to jump to a paranormal conclusion, I think this definition make sens in many cases. Disembodied voices, apparitions, movements of objects, shadows ect experienced by more than one person in the same place and sometimes even caught on video and recorders are indeed unexplained events which find no logical scientific explanation. I can't blame people who try to understand and find answers to phenomenon and events which are not supposed to take place and exist in the field of science.

I agree with you.  I have worked with several different groups of investigators, each having very different approaches.  Some treating the investigation as research and recording and noting everything and another just dominated by psychic expression and glass divination.  My preferred approach is the research one.  The psychic approach may be more enjoyable for some of the group but in reality it has absolutely no relevance and more often than not, information obtained cannot be verified.  My point is that 'some' people just jump to the conclusion that it is paranormal without really investigating all the possibilities.





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