61 replies to this topic

[Harsh86_Patel]

There are 5 videos see all.

Kasanas is a published scholar and is a avid supporter of Out of India theory.

[aryannatimothy]

Interesting video. Wow, too much information and it do make me wonder. Great share!

[Jon101]

Kazanas is unfortunately deluded.

[Harsh86_Patel]

Jon101, on 28 February 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

Kazanas is unfortunately deluded.

Please elaborate.Why do you feel so?

[jaylemurph]

Harsh86_Patel, on 28 February 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

Kasanas is a published scholar and is a avid supporter of Out of India theory.

Just being published doesn't count for much, esp. now in the era of self- and other forms of on-demand publishing. And it doesn't help that you post something from "you can post anything here" YouTube. I can publish, too, on this topic, without any particular knowledge on the subject and that publishing doesn't make it ipso facto worth saving from oblivion.

-Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph, 04 March 2013 - 07:38 PM.

[DieChecker]

I thought the preponderance of genetic and archeological evidence leans toward the Kurgan Model? The Out of India model has been in disfavor for quite some time and is seen as being supported only by Indian ultranationalists.

[Harsh86_Patel]

jaylemurph, on 04 March 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

Just being published doesn't count for much, esp. now in the era of self- and other forms of on-demand publishing. And it doesn't help that you post something from "you can post anything here" YouTube. I can publish, too, on this topic, without any particular knowledge on the subject and that publishing doesn't make it ipso facto worth saving from oblivion.

-Jaylemurph

I agree that being published doesn't count for much hence my disregard for many mainstream theories.Though would like to mention he was published in JIES and the paper was focused on refuting some idiots like Witzel and in support of the OIT.

http://www.omilosmel...ndology/IIR.pdf

Found it very interesting and enlightening.

[Harsh86_Patel]

DieChecker, on 04 March 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

I thought the preponderance of genetic and archeological evidence leans toward the Kurgan Model? The Out of India model has been in disfavor for quite some time and is seen as being supported only by Indian ultranationalists.

No it is the contrary,those who fail to acknowledge the OIT are usually European supremacist and Imperialists somewhat aligned with Hitler and his Aryan fantasies. Genetic and archaeological evidence suggest cultural continuity in the Indian subcontinent with no signs of war/invasion/mass immigration. The stupid Aryan migration theory (into India) suggests that the Aryans came to India as immigrants peacefully and gradually wiped of the local culture and renamed all the rivers and places peacefully....lol.
The only reason that some truely respectable scholars find it difficult to accept the OIT is that they would have to acknowledge a series of migrations at different point of time out of India rather then one single huge migration....i don't find this objection to be valid at all.

Another interesting fact- Kurru-gana literally translates as the soldiers of Kurru who lost the 'Mahabharata' war and were banished somewhere in the 4 th millenium BC

[Frank Merton]

I have only a superficial acquaintance with the arguments between Indian and Pakistani ultra-nationalists about the history of the subcontinent and its peoples.  Neither are in line with archaeological and linguistic studies, and so I tend to view both as ideologically based myth systems not unlike those of the extremes of Christianity and Islam and Judaism elsewhere.

[Harsh86_Patel]

Lol...India and Pakistan.Pakistan is a relatively new born country and the genetic makeup of the majority of their population is same as the Indians.The divide is based purely on religion and nothing else from the Pakistan side.Which arguments are you referring to when you say that none are supported by archaeological and linguistic studies?. And since you mentioned Christianity/Judaism/Any other religion in the world VS Islam is the current scenario in the Islamic world. Pakistan which we humorously refer to as Porkistan here in India claims in its history books that Pakistan was captured by India before it achieved independence post 1947 and claim that it was always a sperate sovreign before India absorbed it.....lol XD

[DieChecker]

Harsh86_Patel, on 05 March 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

No it is the contrary,those who fail to acknowledge the OIT are usually European supremacist and Imperialists somewhat aligned with Hitler and his Aryan fantasies. Genetic and archaeological evidence suggest cultural continuity in the Indian subcontinent with no signs of war/invasion/mass immigration. The stupid Aryan migration theory (into India) suggests that the Aryans came to India as immigrants peacefully and gradually wiped of the local culture and renamed all the rivers and places peacefully....lol.
The only reason that some truely respectable scholars find it difficult to accept the OIT is that they would have to acknowledge a series of migrations at different point of time out of India rather then one single huge migration....i don't find this objection to be valid at all.

Another interesting fact- Kurru-gana literally translates as the soldiers of Kurru who lost the 'Mahabharata' war and were banished somewhere in the 4 th millenium BC

I thought that DNA studies have shown there never was any migrations westward out of India to any great degree. The Persian genetics are much closer to those northwest of India. And the linguistics appear to follow this trend also. The R1a haplogroup has been shown to originate near the Caspian Sea, and spread out from there. DNA studies on mummys and buried remains from 10,000 to 5,000 years ago have shown this. And undoubtably these people were the ones who spread the Indo European languages.

[jaylemurph]

DieChecker, on 06 March 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

I thought that DNA studies have shown there never was any migrations westward out of India to any great degree. The Persian genetics are much closer to those northwest of India. And the linguistics appear to follow this trend also. The R1a haplogroup has been shown to originate near the Caspian Sea, and spread out from there. DNA studies on mummys and buried remains from 10,000 to 5,000 years ago have shown this. And undoubtably these people were the ones who spread the Indo European languages.

Oddly, it seems that the only people who seriously support an Out of India theory are Indian. Would that there were some way to understand that fact...

In completely unrelated news, I'm promulgating a theory I call the Out of Brooklyn theory, which suggests Indo European culture actually arose just outside of Prospect Park (Park Slope, actually) and then manifested in the Pontic Steppes. With no intervening steps. It's all the rage within the Borough of Brooklyn, and all the people who don't support it are raving bigots who want to keep the Hipsterati of Williamsburg down, and they are happy to cover up "rational" info that disagrees with it. And if we have to stalwartly ignore the findings of Legitimate History, Genetics and Archeaology, well then, we're better people for thinking on our own and "finding" the odd isolated fact that confirms our ideas.

--Jaylemurph

[DieChecker]

jaylemurph, on 06 March 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Oddly, it seems that the only people who seriously support an Out of India theory are Indian. Would that there were some way to understand that fact...

That is what I thought....

Quote

In completely unrelated news, I'm promulgating a theory I call the Out of Brooklyn theory, which suggests Indo European culture actually arose just outside of Prospect Park (Park Slope, actually) and then manifested in the Pontic Steppes.

I blame The Doctor. Clearly this is the result of Time Lord meddling. Call Torchwood!!

There is also always the "Out of Nothing" Theory that comes from fundamentalist Young Earth Christians.

[Harsh86_Patel]

DieChecker, on 06 March 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

I thought that DNA studies have shown there never was any migrations westward out of India to any great degree. The Persian genetics are much closer to those northwest of India. And the linguistics appear to follow this trend also. The R1a haplogroup has been shown to originate near the Caspian Sea, and spread out from there. DNA studies on mummys and buried remains from 10,000 to 5,000 years ago have shown this. And undoubtably these people were the ones who spread the Indo European languages.

How do you conclude that the R1 haplogroup originated near the Caspian sea? lol....and then spread out from there?DNA studies on mummies having R1 haplogroup doesn't mean that it originated there geographically." And undoubtedly these people were the ones who spread the Indo....." lol XD. You are more sure then the people you are quoting.

[Harsh86_Patel]

jaylemurph, on 06 March 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Oddly, it seems that the only people who seriously support an Out of India theory are Indian. Would that there were some way to understand that fact...

In completely unrelated news, I'm promulgating a theory I call the Out of Brooklyn theory, which suggests Indo European culture actually arose just outside of Prospect Park (Park Slope, actually) and then manifested in the Pontic Steppes. With no intervening steps. It's all the rage within the Borough of Brooklyn, and all the people who don't support it are raving bigots who want to keep the Hipsterati of Williamsburg down, and they are happy to cover up "rational" info that disagrees with it. And if we have to stalwartly ignore the findings of Legitimate History, Genetics and Archeaology, well then, we're better people for thinking on our own and "finding" the odd isolated fact that confirms our ideas.

--Jaylemurph

Most Indians don't even know about the out of india theory....they still think that the Aryan Invasion was an actual event as they were taught that in school text books. Most people who support out of India theory are people from outside India.Similarly most people who realise the value of Ancient Indian knowledge and Spirituality are people who are not from India,Indians do not know the worth of their own culture and knowledge.
No archaeological facts are being ignored while suggesting out of India theory.You can be happy in repeating what the Linguists say or what the monopoly club say about these theories.They have been wrong every time but they never give up...and why should they give up? since every time they come up with a bull**** idea there are a lot of people who mindlessly accept them and repeat and promote them like they are facts.
Never mind you can wait till the mainstream starts promoting the Out of India theory before you start quoting it as fact and ridiculing other theories.