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Gun Laws Vs. Homicides By State

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#46    FurthurBB

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:52 AM

View PostWickian, on 22 December 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

I could have interpreted it wrong, but it seemed to me that the level of gun control had no statistical effect on the percentage of homicides caused by guns.

Everyone knows that state gun laws are not effective, so what would you expect?


#47    questionmark

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 26 December 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

How much (numerically) less mass killings will there be if we were to remove Automatic Weapon availabilty? How much with all guns illegal?

It is a very hard thing to proove. Will guns make the mass murderer more likely to commit their crime, or just make them more deadly? It is very hard to proove, since it involves more then just one variable.

And like I said, I am not against gun control. I am against Knee Jerk reactions against a single variable by the Media that results in ill thought out legislation.

This also goes to the same thinking as in the Military Drone thread... Is it better to catch 100 more criminals/terrorists each year and sacrifice a tiny possibility of loosing some privacy (From drones flying overhead, or whatnot), or is it better to have more privacy with more people dying who might have otherwise been alive. I vote for keeping people alive, and the ultra conservatives (and ultra liberals) thought it better to have privacy.

I never said that taking away this or that type of gun would change anything, but the Brady Bill has shown us that effective control of guns reduces gun violence (in fact it has been on the decline since '94) I don't care how many or what guns somebody has, as long as those guns will not get iunto the hands of those who should not have one.

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#48    AsteroidX

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:51 AM

Oops.... :gun:  Then you shouldnt have started a fight back there.


#49    Yamato

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:22 PM

View Postsupervike, on 22 December 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

I think there are tons of factors that goes into that as well.

For instance, maybe Vermont has had traditionally low gun crimes, so there has never been a need to address it in their state government.

Illinois has been plagued by high gun crime rates for decades, thus the laws trying to curb that.  

I wonder how much of that Illinois gun crime is centered around Chicago?  States with large urban areas probably have harsher laws, but decidedly more gun violence.
I seriously doubt anyone who is going to murder someone checks with his state's traditions first.   The argument liberty haters want to make is that the crime follows the guns, and the statistics clearly prove that false.   What crime really follows is poverty, particularly urban poverty where people are living on top of one another and property comes at a premium.  

Peace, Freedom, and Prosperity is the best political platform to stand on.

If gun laws are correlated to gun crimes, and preventing gun crimes is the issue, then the statistics do matter.    New Hampshire is the lowest in the country, that is the model for gun laws that other states might want to emulate if it's "gun homicide" in particular that matters so much.

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#50    Stellar

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Quote

The argument liberty haters want to make is that the crime follows the guns, and the statistics clearly prove that false.



You know what? When you can be rational and respectful, then I'll continue the discussion with you. All you are is a pouting child who cant bear someone else's differing opinion, so you resort to calling them names. Yes, I must "hate liberty" because I dont agree with you. :rolleyes: Incidentally, this is exactly the ridiculous american obsession with guns that the rest of the world talks about. Any talk about guns results in the most disrespectful response. Anyone who doesnt want more guns everywhere easily accessible seems to be a liberty hating tyrant. Talk about mental disease.

As for the statistics, I'll leave you to argue with Harvard http://www.hsph.harv...eath/index.html

Edited by Stellar, 27 December 2012 - 03:39 PM.

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#51    Yamato

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

View PostStellar, on 27 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

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You know what? When you can be rational and respectful, then I'll continue the discussion with you. All you are is a pouting child who cant bear someone else's differing opinion, so you resort to calling them names. Yes, I must "hate liberty" because I dont agree with you. :rolleyes: Incidentally, this is exactly the ridiculous american obsession with guns that the rest of the world talks about. Any talk about guns results in the most disrespectful response. Anyone who doesnt want more guns everywhere easily accessible seems to be a liberty hating tyrant. Talk about mental disease.

As for the statistics, I'll leave you to argue with Harvard http://www.hsph.harv...eath/index.html
I wasn't referring to you specifically but now I will because it sure sounds like you hate liberty to me when it's a liberty practiced by someone else that you don't agree with.

The rest of the world can kiss my ass.  They have no authority here.   European know it alls twice saved by the US ought to shut up and emulate, not run their mouths till they blow the world up in war yet again.

Do you love liberty?  Then love our right to preserve it.

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#52    Yamato

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:21 PM

The hell with Osama bin Laden...

Posted Image

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#53    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

View PostYamato, on 27 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

I wasn't referring to you specifically but now I will because it sure sounds like you hate liberty to me when it's a liberty practiced by someone else that you don't agree with.

The rest of the world can kiss my ass.  They have no authority here.   European know it alls twice saved by the US ought to shut up and emulate, not run their mouths till they blow the world up in war yet again.

Do you love liberty?  Then love our right to preserve it.
Touchy :w00t:

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#54    preacherman76

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

View PostYamato, on 27 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

I wasn't referring to you specifically but now I will because it sure sounds like you hate liberty to me when it's a liberty practiced by someone else that you don't agree with.

The rest of the world can kiss my ass.  They have no authority here.   European know it alls twice saved by the US ought to shut up and emulate, not run their mouths till they blow the world up in war yet again.

Do you love liberty?  Then love our right to preserve it.

This is the post of the week.

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#55    ninjadude

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 26 December 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

I actually don't own a gun. I use a dog instead. But I would quickly yell out if there was a burgler downstairs at night that, "I have a gun up here and I've called the police!". Police statistics say that issuing such a challenge almost always chases intruders away. Millions of home invasions per year are ended this way.

This would tend to disprove the "need" for "home protection" as a reason for having a gun then, right?

Which leaves the hilarious notion that you can challenge police and military with your gun. Maybe in the 18th century.

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#56    Gummug

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:33 PM

View PostYamato, on 27 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

The hell with Osama bin Laden...

Posted Image
This is so true...the enemy is within, and imo one of our worst enemies is the national debt/deficit.

Posted Image


#57    ninjadude

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

View PostYamato, on 27 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:


Posted Image

boobs? (the enemy within)

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#58    DieChecker

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:49 AM

View Postninjadude, on 27 December 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

This would tend to disprove the "need" for "home protection" as a reason for having a gun then, right?

Which leaves the hilarious notion that you can challenge police and military with your gun. Maybe in the 18th century.
Yes. Because yelling, "I have a gun" is so much more believable when the civilian body has been disarmed...

You dispute that citizens with handguns can challenge a military? What about Libya... Syria... Afghanistan?? Those people basically all have small arms and have either successfully rebeled, or continuing to rebel for years. Not being able to challege the military is ignorant. Unless the military conducts a campaign of genecide. Is that what you are suggesting is that if the military took over, they would just genecide the public to gain control, and factories and industry be damned?

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#59    Sakari

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:04 AM

Where is Alaska in all of this?.....They have the loosest gun laws.

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#60    Yamato

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:09 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 22 December 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

you will find that, while every army reserve person has his assault rifle and/or ordinance pistol and one clip at home that is to be returned after the service ends, the possession of private weapons is not as easy as you would think.

Among others it contains following passages:

Citizens from South European countries are banned from possessing any kind of weapon.

For the purchase of a weapon you need consent from the police (exception is only  .22 rifles)

The law for weapons has been extended to "dangerous implements", that include kitchen knifes and clubs, and they cannot be carried overt or concealed.

Munitions are only allowed to those who have a license to purchase a gun, and only for that type of gun

To buy a gun you need a reason, without a reason you cannot and you can only buy a gun of a type you have a reason to posses.

Shooting out of shooting stands or hunting areal during season is prohibited.

and on, and on, and on.
Switzerland has around 420,000 assault rifles stored at private homes.   So huge private militias loaded with assault rifles are good for gun crime rates.

So having a private militia with assault rifles everywhere is okay so long as it's regulated by the police afterwards, and thank heavens for that, as the same people not committing gun crimes with their assault rifles for all those years won't be trustworthy later in life since older age causes lower trustworthiness.

What is the basis for your approval of huge private militias packing full-auto assault weapons?   Are soldiers and reserve soldiers more psychologically sound?   Do they have doctors administering evaluations first?    Are they less likely to present a threat to their governments if they're receiving welfare?  

What are we approving here?   Tacit approval that police are trustworthy to surrender our rights to?    No such thing as a bad cop, and no such thing as a good private citizen?    Stop letting government determine for you who should have a gun and who can't.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela





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