11638 replies to this topic

[Otharus]

I think the high relevance of my post about Ottema was missed.

Otharus, on 02 February 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Ottema's darkest side
[...]
Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden (translated from letter in Dutch dated 26-1-1876):

"[...] An animosity that will not end until the people of Finda and Lyda will be exterminated, and the people of Frya at the final victory will remain and inherit and posess the whole earth.
This animosity dominates all of history in the OLB and still goes on in our days. Frya's people pervade in all continents and establish European supremacy all over the earth. Everywhere the peoples of Finda and Lyda will have to submit or disappear."
[...]

If he wrote things like this to Over de Linden he may have talked like this too, in meetings of the Genootschap, informally, or who knows where and when.

It may have been a good thing to shut him up.

If only he would have listened to Cornelis and chosen a better translation of that little odd word in the creation myth...

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I am happy with Alewyn's 2nd edition, but I must admit that I am disappointed that, despite my several posts here about it, he chose to copy the mistake from Ottema that was copied by Sandbach. It might seem to be a tiny detail, but it makes a huge difference.

Alewyn, can you explain?

[Otharus]

Since "Neef Teunis" in the OLB has been one of the main arguments to not take it seriously, this post also deserves a second thought.

Otharus, on 03 February 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Dr. Ottema in a letter to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 13-6-1876 (translated from Dutch):

"On a memorial stone of Domburg Neef Teunis is standing next to Nehalennia.
You can also see him on the tower of Zierikzee, where he has the job of weather vane,
and all his life was known to the people of Zierikzee as nothing other than Neef Teunis."



Image of the weather vane in Zierikzee, known to the 19th century inhabitants as "Neef Teunis" (old-Dutch name for Neptune?).

Appearantly, before OLB was published, there WAS a tradition in Holland to call Neptune "neef Teunis" (cousin Tony).

[Otharus]

Otharus, on 03 February 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Which version looks more original?

If you'd ask me, I'd say that it looks like the Alhambra artist had once seen the Jol-numbers, but didn't exactly remember and tried to reconstruct from his memory.

The OLB-version makes more sense to me.

[Otharus]

Because Abe has challenged me several times to post something in favor of the hoax-theories, I will for once descend to that level.

Why François Haverschmidt might have written the OLB.
(Not mentioned by Jensma, as far as I know.)

Under the pseudonym "Piet Paaltjens", he wrote this poem ca. 1850:

Aan Rika

Slechts éénmaal heb ik u gezien. Gij waart
Gezeten in een sneltrein, die den trein,
Waar ik mee reed, passeerde in volle vaart.
De kennismaking kon niet korter zijn.
En toch, zij duurde lang genoeg, om mij
Het eindloos levenspad met fletsen lach
Te doen vervolgen. Ach! geen enkel blij
Glimlachje liet ik meer, sinds ik u zag.
Waarom ook hebt gij van dat blonde haar,
Daar de engelen aan te kennen zijn? En dan,
Waarom blauwe ogen, wonderdiep en klaar?
Gij wist toch, dat ik daar niet tegen kan?
En waarom mij dan zo voorbijgesneld,
En niet als de weerlicht 't rijtuig opgerukt,
En om mijn hals uw armen vastgekneld,
En op mijn mond uw lippen vastgedrukt?
Gij vreesdet mooglijk voor een spoorwegramp?
Maar, Rika, wat kon zaalger voor mij zijn,
Dan, onder hels geratel en gestamp,
Met u verplet te worden door één trein?

[OLB 189/02] use of the name Rika
BRÉF FON RIKA THJU ALD.FÁM. VPSÉID TO STÁVEREN BY.T JOL.FÉRSTE.

[OLB 009/18] blue eyes
FRYA WAS WIT LIK SNÉI BY.T MÔRNE.RÁD ÀND THAT BLÁW HJRAR ÔGNUM. WN.ET JETA THÉRE RÉINBÔGE OF.

[OLB 009/22] this must be about (light-) blond hair
LIK STRÉLON THÉRE MIDDÉI SVNNE BLIKADON HJRA HÉRON THÉR SA FIN WÉRON AS RACH.

If I think it's a strong argument?

No, ofcourse not.

[Abramelin]

Otharus loves to pretend to know about psychology. Heh, ok, either he has studied it or has been the subject of a study, lol.

Just reread this.
I actually found something about which I thought "Damn, this might be something!", so I was curious what he would think of it for I was sure he would be interested.

Quote

Abramelin, on 28 January 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

Say, Otharus, you have any info on that Basque writer who claimed to have seen a 16th century family chronicle that was about a history of times immemorial?

This is his answer:

Otharus, on 27 January 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

No.

Are you trying to distract me?

I am busy.

I thought WTF?!!


OK, I posted about that "White Island of the Dead" (the "White Bank") in the North Sea, because archeological research of that area could be interesting because the legend about the island dates from at least the 6th century.

But apparently both these posts were not interesting enough for "Jut" and "Yule" (lol).

Too distracting no doubt...

==

Now a couple of quotes from the past days (A= Alewyn, the rest if from Otharus):

Quote

You just perfectly demonstrated the extremely intolerant climate here (and elsewhere in the world), created by people like yourself, against people who dare to speak out their thoughts that deviate from the main stream.

A few hundred years ago, people like you would love to go look at the live burning (or worse) of heretics in public.

A: Abe has already indicated on a few occassions that he would like to get the honour of proving the OLB to be authentic. In order to do so, of course, he first have to convince everybody else that my work is worthless.

A: ...than the endless bickering by non-professionals about the origin of words.

A: In my opinion, the first requirement for professionalism is truthfulness. You should try it some time.

If you'd read all of Cornelis' letters and diaries, you'd probably come to a different conclusion, unless you are as paranoid as Jensma.

You must be incredibly naive.

I think you also suggested once that it's only neonazis who like it.

Indeed, people who don't take truth very seriously themselves, will find it easier to accuse others of lying.

Because Abe has challenged me several times to post something in favor of the hoax-theories, I will for once descend to that level.

Of course I responded, don't worry.

But now for something completely different.....

[Abramelin]

From the OLB:

Thit stêt inna Waraburch by thêre aldega mvda wryt.

Thju wâraburch nis nên fâmnaburch, men thêr in wrdon alla uthêmeda aend vrlandeska thinga wârath, thêr mitbrocht binne thrvch tha stjurar. Hju is thri pêla, thaet is en half ty sûdwarth fon Mêdêa-sblik lêgen.

THIS IS INSCRIBED ON THE WARABURGT BY THE ALDEGAMUDE.

The Waraburgt is not a maiden’s city, but the place where all the foreign articles brought by sailors were stored. It lies three hours south from Medeasblik.


Nw wil ik selva skriwa êrost fon over min burch and than over hwat ik hav muge sjan.

To tha lersta kêmon wi to-t Alderga. By-t suderhâvahâved stêt thju Wâraburch, en stênhus, thêrin send allerlêja skulpa, hulka, wêpne aend klathar wârad, fon fêre landum, thrvch tha stjurar mith brocht. En fjardêl dâna is-t Alderga. En grâte flyt omborad mith lothum, husa aend gârdum, ella riklik sjarad. Invpper flyt lêi en grâte flâte rêd, mith fônon fon allerlêja farwa.


NOW I WILL WRITE MYSELF, FIRST ABOUT MY CITADEL, AND THEN ABOUT WHAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE.

At last we came to Alderga. At the head of the south harbour lies the Waraburgt, built of stone, in which all kinds of clothes, weapons, shells, and horns are kept, which were brought by the sea-people from distant lands. A quarter of an hour’s distance from there is Alderga, a great river surrounded by houses, sheds, and gardens, all richly decorated. In the river lay a great fleet ready, with banners of all sorts of colours.



===

An anagram for WRALDA is ARWALD, tried it out, and this is what I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arwald

I was just having fun with an online anagram program.

But on tht Wiki page I clicked on a link in the list of references:

http://en.wikipedia....e_Isle_of_Wight


However, the name for the "Men of Wight" was "Wihtwara" and their fort "Wihtwarasburgh".

http://en.wikipedia....e_Isle_of_Wight


In the ancient Saxon settlement of Canterbury, a district of Kent in South East England, we find the possible origin of the Ware surname.  "Canterbury was once Cani-wara-burgh, or the borough of the Kent people.  Wara, in the old name Cant-wara-burgh, reminds us of the prefix and affix War, ... 'The compounds of the Anglo-Saxon word ware = occupants, inhabitants, are too numerous to leave any doubt as to this and several other derivations. Cant-ware = Cant-icolae = people of Kent; Hwic-ware = Hwiccas = the people of parts of Worcestershire....'."  Source: Chambers's journal, Vol. 26, By William Chambers, Robert Chambers, p. 329.  

http://www.warefamilyhistory.com/

This might explain what the OLB "Waraburgt" really meant.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 04 February 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

I actually found something about which I thought "Damn, this might be something!", so I was curious what he would think of it for I was sure he would be interested.

So, what was that old family chronicle about?

My "no" was a straight answer to your question if I knew anything about it and yes, I was busy translating at that time.
Since you were not replying to any of my posts and kept coming with trivial questions I wondered if you were trying to distract me.
But it wasn't ment as harsh as it may have sounded.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 04 February 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

This might explain what the OLB "Waraburgt" really meant.

Nice find!

"WARA" btw is also a verb in the OLB.

Edited by Otharus, 04 February 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 04 February 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

So, what was that old family chronicle about?

My "no" was a straight answer to your question if I knew anything about it and yes, I was busy translating at that time.
Since you were not replying to any of my posts and kept coming with trivial questions I wondered if you were trying to distract me.
But it wasn't ment as harsh as it may have sounded.

It was a Basque writer who had returned to his hometown, visited a local library and found a 17th or 16th cntury old family chronicle of his family of which he claimed that it went back to 'times immemorial'. He didn't say anything further about it, and went on to say he had used it as a basis for his novel (fiction).

=

As far as I know I replied to any of your questions to me:
http://www.unexplain...=184645&st=9705

Anyway, let's cut the personal bull and focus on the OLB and anything connected with it.


+++++

EDIT:

I am willing to send that writer an email, and ask him about  that family chronicle. All I need is an email address.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 04 February 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 04 February 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Nice find!

"WARA" btw is also a verb in the OLB.

But the OLB suggests (see my post) "Wara" is about wares: merchandize, valuables, "stuff" (think "warehouse").

However, the Anglo-Saxon/English source says it's about "occupants, inhabitants".

.

Edited by Abramelin, 04 February 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 04 February 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

But the OLB suggests (see my post) "Wara" is about wares: merchandize, valuables, "stuff".

No it's also about "bewaren" (hold/ protect), like here:

[105/06]
EN SLECHT ÀND WARANDA LINDA WITH THA SVNNE.STRÉLUM

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 04 February 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

It was a Basque writer who had returned to his hometown, visited a local library and found a 17th or 16th cntury old family chronicle of his family of which he claimed that it went back to 'times immemorial'. He didn't say anything further about it, and went on to say he had used it as a basis for his novel (fiction).

So it wasn't made public?

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 04 February 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

So it wasn't made public?

No, he only mentioned he had found an ancient family chronicle:

The Lords of Navarre - José Lacambra-Loizu (from the book's Preface, page xxiii)

During a recent visit to my ancestral home in the Spanish Pyrenees, I happened across a sixteenth century manuscript claiming family roots that dated back to "time immemorial." This startling discovery encouraged me to anchor this chronicle in the prehistoric past, describing a journey spanning the last glacial age to the present. It narrates the meandering of a family of Vascon warlords, the Agorretas, as they grope their way out of the prehistoric mists and into the glare of history.

http://www.buber.net...s/jml040624.php

http://www.amazon.co...dp/0595311482#_

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

My post 9694, page 647

http://www.unexplain...=184645&st=9690

It doesn't even say it is HIS family chronicle, just "A" family chronicle.

I should think this would make the hearts of the OLB fans beat a little faster, don't you think so too?



.

Edited by Abramelin, 04 February 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 04 February 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

I should think this would make the hearts of the OLB fans beat a little faster, don't you think so too?

They're not all as dupable as you seem to think.

Edited by Otharus, 04 February 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 04 February 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

They're not all as dupable as you seem to think.

I asked you to stop that bull, but somehow it is stronger than you.

And NO, I did not suggest that in my former post.

And if I - one of the most notorious skeptics in this thread - find out more about that Basque family chronicle, I will post about it.

Just believe me, I will.


+++++++


EDIT:

Do you know what "Lacambra" means?

"La Cambra" means 'sorcerer'.

Now that is a start, lol.

My whole website is about 'sorcerers' (Castaneda style).


.

Edited by Abramelin, 04 February 2012 - 08:59 PM.