26 replies to this topic

[jugoso]

I´m telling you man, I read and watch this kind of thing and the video of the police pepper-spraying patrons in a Montreal bar and fear that the line has been crossed a while ago and there is no going back.
http://mediacitizen....-to-record.html

[booNyzarC]

Yeah, that's pretty messed up.

[Babe Ruth]

Yes it was crossed awhile ago, and there won't be any going back.

[Grey14]

WHile yes I agree that from what was shown that an arrest really was not warranted, I do not believe that they arrested him from video taping them. Otherewise why didnt they arrest the guy filming the whole thing or go after him. I believe there is more to the story here than is being shown.

[msmike1]

There may be more to that story, but what about the hundreds of other videos showing police abusing their power and making illegal arrests? I don't dislike law enforcement. I know there is a need for them, and I respect the job they do, but the abuse of power and corruption in a lot of law enforcement agencies is getting ridiculous. It is widespread, from big cities to small towns and getting worse. Of course now they can just arrest you for no reason at all and detain you for any length of time they see fit, at least according to the federal government, so where does the abuse of power begin and end?

Mike

[Rafterman]

Are there any Canadians posting in this thread because, frankly, I'm not qualified to comment on Canadian law in instances like this.  Are any of you?

[jugoso]

Rafterman, on 23 May 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Are there any Canadians posting in this thread because, frankly, I'm not qualified to comment on Canadian law in instances like this.  Are any of you?

Yes, I am Canadian Rafterman. And independent of any law, what I saw in the video was an abuse of power and unnecessary IMO. The man was clearly asking where he should be moving to and was also moving away from the police. He was not threatening them in any manner. If he was in a space where he shouldn´t have been, they should have arrested him immediately. By continuing to demand that he get behind the line, not tell him where the line was and then arrest him as he was moving toward it was just plain silly. I´m not sure what relevance any Canadian law gives police officers the right to be such arseholes. The police pretty much act with impunity in these situations throughout North America as well as in other parts of the world

[Corp]

Grey14, on 23 May 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

WHile yes I agree that from what was shown that an arrest really was not warranted, I do not believe that they arrested him from video taping them. Otherewise why didnt they arrest the guy filming the whole thing or go after him. I believe there is more to the story here than is being shown.

You're using logic instead of 'OMG we have no freedom' panic.

There must be more to the story. Police like cameras being used in big events like this since if trouble does start up they can use the video to catch trouble makers. Never heard of a law saying it's illegal to take pictures of cops. Sure some cops are corrupt b******* and go unpunished too often but we're not dealing with the KGB here.

Edited by Corp, 23 May 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[WhyDontYouBeliEveMe]

good for that guy ! ...  who does he think he is? i mean cmon . if he just listened and turn his back around and walked away .. nothing would had happen . he provoked them .. guys like that should know their place, in society.
he was acting like my 4 year old daughter . why? where? what? but?  punishment = 5 minutes on a chair...  in a corner .. just because she didnt listen ! ..
only a madmen who thinks he is protected by the law would go agains the law itself !

[jugoso]

WhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 23 May 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

good for that guy ! ...  who does he think he is? i mean cmon . if he just listened and turn his back around and walked away .. nothing would had happen . he provoked them .. guys like that should know their place, in society.
he was acting like my 4 year old daughter . why? where? what? but?  punishment = 5 minutes on a chair...  in a corner .. just because she didnt listen ! ..
only a madmen who thinks he is protected by the law would go agains the law itself !

Could you explain exactly how he "went against the law"?

[jugoso]

Corp, on 23 May 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

You're using logic instead of 'OMG we have no freedom' panic.

There must be more to the story. Police like cameras being used in big events like this since if trouble does start up they can use the video to catch trouble makers. Never heard of a law saying it's illegal to take pictures of cops. Sure some cops are corrupt b******* and go unpunished too often but we're not dealing with the KGB here.

So what you´re suggesting is that if we could see some bvideo before what we saw then the police were justified in acting the way they did?
Why not just answer the ****ing question and tell him where he was supposed to be? Have you not seen enough videos of police in riot gear making unnecessary arrests / using unnecessary force?? Why does there have to be more to the story??

Edited by jugoso, 23 May 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[Grey14]

jugoso, on 23 May 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

So what you´re suggesting is that if we could see some bvideo before what we saw then the police were justified in acting the way they did?

Yes that is what is being suggested.

jugoso, on 23 May 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

Why not just answer the ****ing question and tell him where he was supposed to be? Have you not seen enough videos of police in riot gear making unnecessary arrests / using unnecessary force?? Why does there have to be more to the story??

Without seeing the entire exchange we do not know if he had been told specifically where to go earlier and he was not being compliant. What you are doing is ASSuming that there is nothing else to the exchange than what you are seeing in that short video rather than questioning whether there might be more to what is going on. But of course that is what you want right? Otherwise you might not be able to use it to make your points.

[Corp]

jugoso, on 23 May 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

So what you´re suggesting is that if we could see some bvideo before what we saw then the police were justified in acting the way they did?
Why not just answer the ****ing question and tell him where he was supposed to be? Have you not seen enough videos of police in riot gear making unnecessary arrests / using unnecessary force?? Why does there have to be more to the story??

Haven't you seen enough videos of "protesters" attacking police for no reason? And at times these kinds of videos are edited to make the police look like thugs.

As I've said some police officers are b******* and need to be slapped down harder. Maybe this is one of those cases, maybe not. But saying that "a line has been crossed and there's no going back" just destroys any point you might have had and reduces it to the weak "all police are evil" argument.

[jugoso]

Grey14, on 24 May 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Yes that is what is being suggested.



Without seeing the entire exchange we do not know if he had been told specifically where to go earlier and he was not being compliant. What you are doing is ASSuming that there is nothing else to the exchange than what you are seeing in that short video rather than questioning whether there might be more to what is going on. But of course that is what you want right? Otherwise you might not be able to use it to make your points.

No I cannot ASSume that he had been instructed what to do before the video tape started rolling any more than you can ASSume that he was. As mentioned previously, if he had not been compliant with previous instructions, he should have been arrested immediately. No need for the police to tell him what to do at that point. He was clearly asking the police where he should be and it also seems clear from the video that he didn´t want to be arrested. I saw absolutely NO reason for him to be arrested at the point he was. Perhaps before, but not at that point. Do you think it was necessary to arrest that individual or do you think he was moving in the "right" direction and the arrest could have been avoided?
  I was caught up in the first Vancouver "riot" in the early 90´s and can tell you that I was doing my best to try to get myself away from the action and the police did not make it clear how I could do that. They essentially surrounded the crowd and let the tear gas fly. That was when the real mayhem started..

[Grey14]

jugoso, on 24 May 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

No I cannot ASSume that he had been instructed what to do before the video tape started rolling any more than you can ASSume that he was.

Ahh but there is my point. I am not assuming anything. You are. Your seeing that 2 min clip and basing your point on it. I am not. I think there was more to see before the start of the video that would shed more light on to what the situation truely was. What that is I can't say as I wasnt there and there is no video of it. But at least I am not taking it at face value and running to the hills with corrupt police theories.