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Contradictions in the bible


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#61    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:09 PM

If this person  Jesus  was real and did in fact exist.. Then I do not believe he died for any sins..   I would say he died because he was sentenced to death for blasphemy...People where nutters back then

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 13 October 2012 - 11:10 PM.

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#62    Gummug

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:04 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 13 October 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

We dont have anyone here with biblical knowledge anymore? What happened to PA? There were a few others as well. I cant believe no one has come to the defense of the bible. Anyhow, I used to study up on all the so called contradictions. I have yet to see one where it holds water. Things are taken outta context, there have also been ligit translation difficulties, ect ect. Id go into it, but no one comes to a thread like this to learn anything. But just know this, there isnt a single so called contradiction that hasnt been throughly debunked.
I wish I could help you more here preacherman. I have read the bible and I know there is at least one translation error, and I think there is at least one error even in the original Hebrew (though parts of it were in Chaldean), but I'm not that great of a scholar. I do admit I did kinda think that cartoon clip about the contradictions was kinda funny though. I've heard it said though that, especially with the gospels, if they were in complete agreement, they would be more suspect because usually that is a sign of deliberate collusion, but there is just enough contradiction in them for them to be believed as a real human source. Just like, if the police interview witnesses separately and their stories agree perfectly, usually the police strongly suspect collusion (on a falsehood).

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#63    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:31 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 13 October 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

If this person  Jesus  was real and did in fact exist.. Then I do not believe he died for any sins..   I would say he died because he was sentenced to death for blasphemy...People where nutters back then

Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"

http://bible.cc/john/10-20.htm

That and being a terrorist.

Edited by HavocWing, 14 October 2012 - 12:33 AM.

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#64    lightly

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:32 AM

View PostMnemonix, on 12 October 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

I'll just need to be happy with what I choose to believe and let others be happy with what they choose to believe.



  That's Beautiful Mnemonix .      I think it should be chiseled in stones and taught in schools all over the earth .          ... much peace and happiness to you  :)

  * also.. speaking of contradictions...    the Christian churches have always seemed to fall short of Christ   .. or  our ideas of what a *Christ*-like figure should be... whichever you prefer :)       .. the Old testament seems like a mish mash of writings from different times and places which eventually congealed ?     .. and a lot of the weirdness in the new testament might be attributable to older influences as well?      It's not as if  God said..  "how's your gospel coming along Matthew ?     .. everyone else has turned theirs in.

Edited by lightly, 14 October 2012 - 12:43 AM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#65    Alienated Being

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:33 AM

Everybody knows that the bible is the word of God. Anybody who questions Him should be put to death! He is our almighty Creator!


#66    Lion6969

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:36 AM

There are over 50,000 contradictions in the bible. The ardent believer and biblical scholar will admit it's no longer the actual words of god......


#67    Arbitran

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 01:10 AM

View PostLion6969, on 14 October 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

There are over 50,000 contradictions in the bible. The ardent believer and biblical scholar will admit it's no longer the actual words of god......

Where does this figure, 50,000, come from? I think everyone here (just about, anyway) acknowledges contradiction in the Bible; but such an integer has not been corroborated at the moment.

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#68    Urisk

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 01:17 AM

View PostHasina, on 12 October 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Politicians contradicte themselves all the time and they still exist (sadly).

Thing is, is it not considered the word of God, who is infallible? He should be incapable of contradicting him/Himself.

A friend of mine has told me about when someone he knew suddenly found God, who beleived everythign in the Bible. So he wrote "I can fly" or something similarly inane and handed it to him, asked if he beleived it. Of course the reply was "no". "So" my friend said "you'll believe something written by long-dead strangers, but not something written by someone you know?".

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#69    Lion6969

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 01:22 AM

View PostArbitran, on 14 October 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:



Where does this figure, 50,000, come from? I think everyone here (just about, anyway) acknowledges contradiction in the Bible; but such an integer has not been corroborated at the moment.

It was proven by a german university which in cooperation with biblical scholars identified approximately 50,000 contradictions and errors. So not just contradictions (my bad). Can't remember which university it was.

:)


#70    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 03:06 AM

View PostHavocWing, on 14 October 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"


Accused him of being from an unclean spirit..He forgave them and the rest who would not accept him.......... Forgive them father, they know not what they do...   Only those who are not yet born  and heard of me, will have to accept me for who I am....

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#71    Jinxdom

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:07 AM

View Postpreacherman76, on 13 October 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

We dont have anyone here with biblical knowledge anymore? What happened to PA? There were a few others as well. I cant believe no one has come to the defense of the bible. Anyhow, I used to study up on all the so called contradictions. I have yet to see one where it holds water. Things are taken outta context, there have also been ligit translation difficulties, ect ect. Id go into it, but no one comes to a thread like this to learn anything. But just know this, there isnt a single so called contradiction that hasnt been throughly debunked.

LOL ahem sorry. If every contradiction in the bible has been debunked there would only be one denomination/religion regarding the Abrahamic God.

I could debunk things like the days Jesus was in the tomb or where the messed up numbers like age and how many troops there were the whole 40 thousand or 4 thousand thing those would be easy to debunk. One could of done something counting individual men or each group of man which could easily account for the difference.

Which is why I stuck to the whole Jesus dying for our sins thing... because that is one that you cannot dismiss as easily as the others.

Arbitran linked perfectly exactly what I was touching on when I did the whole dying for our sins thing. I just wasn't going to type out 30 to 40 bible passages to explain it myself because I was kinda being lazy and most people here already know what I was talking about.


#72    Bling

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:57 PM

If it's generally accepted that there are mistakes in the bible and if it isn't the true word of God....then why does christianity still follow it? And therefore why does christianity still exist? When I was a christian I believed it to be the literal word of God, and I didn't question it because I felt that would be disloyal to my faith.....and when I did start to question it I was frowned upon. With my thirst for knowledge I discovered that these innacuracies do matter, you can't just pick and choose which part to believe - not if the bible is supposed to be the word of God. I've decided now that I don't believe the bible what it's purported to be - interesting reading though.


#73    IamsSon

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

View PostBling, on 15 October 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

If it's generally accepted that there are mistakes in the bible and if it isn't the true word of God....then why does christianity still follow it? And therefore why does christianity still exist? When I was a christian I believed it to be the literal word of God, and I didn't question it because I felt that would be disloyal to my faith.....and when I did start to question it I was frowned upon. With my thirst for knowledge I discovered that these innacuracies do matter, you can't just pick and choose which part to believe - not if the bible is supposed to be the word of God. I've decided now that I don't believe the bible what it's purported to be - interesting reading though.

Why do Christians still follow the Bible if it is known to have errors?  That's a really good question.  The answer is a bit intricate.

Many people who consider themselves Christians are very ignorant of what the Bible is and rarely bother to actually read it, much less spend the time studying it.  These people basically sort of listen to what a preacher or pastor says and they then think that they know what the Bible is and what it's about.  So, when they hear the Bible is the Word of God and that it is literal, they have a very shaky basis on which to understand this.

The Bible was written by at least 40 different authors, no one claims any of these books were actually written by God.  The understanding is that God inspired the writers, and the level of inspiration seems to vary, from book to book and even within books, from sections in which God is quoted, to sections where authors provide details of events and situations.

Even the idea of the Bible being literal is complicated.  If one actually reads the Bible, it becomes obvious that some parts are intended to be stories to help make a difficult point, Jesus used many of these parables, and then there are the prophetic visions which clearly are heavily symbolic, to poems, and then to recounting of events as seen from different perspectives, to recounting of events in simplified form.  When one adds to this the fact that English readers are reading a translation, from Hebrew, pre-hebraic languages, Greek, and Aramaic, what "literal" means becomes even more tenuous.  I have worked as an interpreter and a translator for over twenty years in various venues, from military, to business, to medical, to legal, to religious.  I can tell you that in every instance, a translator has to choose what is more important, being literal or communicating the thought behind the actual words.  Often, a translator does this throughout a conversation.  There are phrases and terms that just do not have a one-to-one translation, or even if the word does have a specific word it can be translated to, it will not actually translate the message correctly.  So, no, your English Bible is not in any way the literal Word of God.  But even the Scriptures in their original language are not the literal Word of God except for those instances where God is quoted.  However, the Bible is the Word of God, in the same way that this post is my word.  It is communicating, my thoughts and my ideas as well as they can be in written form.  When one takes translation into account, most of the "innacuracies" and errors go away.  And when taken in (drum roll please) CONTEXT the "innacuracies" wither away.

I hope that if you do actually think the Bible is interesting reading that you will actually read it.  And if you have any interest in actually understanding it, then that you will study it in the same way you would study a beautiful poem, trying to learn as much about the author, who he initially wrote it to, why he wrote it, how he was feeling when he wrote it, why he used a particular word or phrase (what it meant at the time, in his language in the town he wrote it), what was going on in the world, in his town, in his family when he wrote it.  If you do that, you will find that God is speaking directly to you, in a way you could have never imagined.

Edited by IamsSon, 15 October 2012 - 08:54 PM.

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#74    Bling

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:59 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 15 October 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:


I hope that if you do actually think the Bible is interesting reading that you will actually read it.  And if you have any interest in actually understanding it, then that you will study it in the same way you would study a beautiful poem, trying to learn as much about the author, who he initially wrote it to, why he wrote it, how he was feeling when he wrote it, why he used a particular word or phrase (what it meant at the time, in his language in the town he wrote it), what was going on in the world, in his town, in his family when he wrote it.  If you do that, you will find that God is speaking directly to you, in a way you could have never imagined.

I don't read the bible anymore as I'm now an atheist. So are you saying that God speaks to people through a poorly translated innaccurate book and that's the best he can do? No wonder I don't believe anymore!


#75    IamsSon

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:38 PM

View PostBling, on 15 October 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

I don't read the bible anymore as I'm now an atheist. So are you saying that God speaks to people through a poorly translated innaccurate book and that's the best he can do? No wonder I don't believe anymore!
I think you need to go back and re-read what I wrote.  I said translation requires that the translator choose between a word-for-word exact translation or a translation that communicates the idea expressed by the words.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881




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