+DieChecker Posted January 6, 2013 #51 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Myths are not fairies. There is difference. Myths are based on true stories. True enough. But what evidence do we have to say that this myth is based on a real person? None, as far as I know. If they said this mythical figure lived in 3853 BC, at least that would be a starting point. Or any of the ancients speaking of him as more then a myth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdueleaf Posted January 6, 2013 #52 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) Helike Troy Can provide more examples. just because you can name a few examples where myths reflect real life.. it in no way means that ALL myths are based on true stories... i am more inclined to believe like Urisk stated that they are more for the need to explain away things. Look at all the mythical stories that surround the creation of man... surely they are not ALL true accounts. Edited January 6, 2013 by Overdueleaf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazahel Posted January 6, 2013 #53 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) L...I'm trying to think of some myths that are based on true stories...having trouble coming up with any at the moment. Can you list a couple maybe? Thanks! I got another quick one. Well I guess its a myth anyway.. Witches riding broomsticks. People now days would generally say typical things like "witches cant fly and didnt ride broomsticks. Its all fake and anyone that thinks they can should see a doctor!!! It's biologically/physically impossible blah blah blah. " But from what I gather its because witches would use a flying oil inorder to astral travel/lucid dream. So the myth of witches flying on broomsticks is based on truth. They used the oil to allow them to 'fly'. It's just now days most people misunderstand it. http://en.wikipedia....Flying_ointment *I also noticed in this link it says "lycanthropic ointment". Thats interesting hey. Edited January 6, 2013 by Kazahel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urisk Posted January 6, 2013 #54 Share Posted January 6, 2013 From what I gather the wood used for broomstick handles could cure "lady infections" like cystitis, thrush etc, and the practice of waddling around with a broomstick between your legs was born. And since witches probably stemmed from herbalists who were looked upon with suspicion by the Church (because instead of turning to faith, people could actually be cured by these wise women), So the myth of witches was born. Of course flying witches come from Baba Yaga and her Sensational Flying Mortar and Pestle , and presumably the two things got somewhat muddled. Is it ash or hazel that has antiseptic qualities? I know willow has salicylic acid in it, which is a key ingrediant in asprin. So perhaps yes, some myths may stem from truth- but more often than not it's only half-truths. The Cyclopes would be another example. The ancient Greeks found old elephant skulls, and the large hole wherethe trunk extends from was mistakenly identified as a singe lage eye. That's a myth- In this case it stems from something that was tangible, but it was way off the course; we know there are no Cyclopean giants. Kelpies stem from strong under-currents in pools and rivers, perhaps the thermocline in large bodies of water like lochs. As far as I'm aware there are no water horses swimming around in Scottish waters. More people would die unexplainable deaths otherwise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazahel Posted January 6, 2013 #55 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) From what I gather the wood used for broomstick handles could cure "lady infections" like cystitis, thrush etc, and the practice of waddling around with a broomstick between your legs was born. And since witches probably stemmed from herbalists who were looked upon with suspicion by the Church (because instead of turning to faith, people could actually be cured by these wise women), So the myth of witches was born. Of course flying witches come from Baba Yaga and her Sensational Flying Mortar and Pestle ™, and presumably the two things got somewhat muddled. Is it ash or hazel that has antiseptic qualities? I know willow has salicylic acid in it, which is a key ingrediant in asprin. How do you know that all flying witches come from Baba Yaga? And are you saying that the flying oils were only used to cure lady infections and not for lucid dreaming/astral travelling/spirit journeying? The substances may be used medicinally but they are hallucinogenic and also place you into a lucid dream upon falling asleep and allows for travelling. *Btw have you got link to the wood thing, I'd be curious on reading more on that. Edited January 6, 2013 by Kazahel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 6, 2013 #56 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I got another quick one. Well I guess its a myth anyway.. Witches riding broomsticks. People now days would generally say typical things like "witches cant fly and didnt ride broomsticks. Its all fake and anyone that thinks they can should see a doctor!!! It's biologically/physically impossible blah blah blah. " But from what I gather its because witches would use a flying oil inorder to astral travel/lucid dream. So the myth of witches flying on broomsticks is based on truth. They used the oil to allow them to 'fly'. It's just now days most people misunderstand it. http://en.wikipedia....Flying_ointment *I also noticed in this link it says "lycanthropic ointment". Thats interesting hey. That could all very well be, but I have yet to see anyone who "astrally traveled", who was able to proove anything under scientific circumstances. I feel it falls into the same catagory as out of body experiences where the person "Feels" like they have done something, but can't point to a single thing that prooves they did. If astral travelers could go and peek in on say... the Iranian nuclear program, or go look in Fort Knox, then it would be widely reported and tested and recognized, but since I have not seen that, I must assume that astral travel is mental and only in the one persons mind. Or are you saying that people can "See" these astral werewolves and witches? So that others experience them also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazahel Posted January 7, 2013 #57 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) That could all very well be, but I have yet to see anyone who "astrally traveled", who was able to proove anything under scientific circumstances. I feel it falls into the same catagory as out of body experiences where the person "Feels" like they have done something, but can't point to a single thing that prooves they did. If astral travelers could go and peek in on say... the Iranian nuclear program, or go look in Fort Knox, then it would be widely reported and tested and recognized, but since I have not seen that, I must assume that astral travel is mental and only in the one persons mind. I kind of agree, like I said on the page before this one(page 3, my 3rd post). Personally I dont really separate lucid dreaming from astral travelling and obe's. Thats why I generally type it as lucid dream/astral travel/obe. So I'm on the fence on if there is truly a difference. But lucid dreaming is a fact. I think obe can feel different because I've experienced it myself but I dont know for sure if its not just a version of lucid dreaming. So in the end I tend to think of it all as either lucid or not lucid. I do believe from personal experiences though that not all dreams are just from our own minds, I've had some really good shared dreams, precog dreams/dreams where I have 'peeked' into events. Do a search under 'christmas stocking 'red paint' and 'ambulance man' if you want to read some. Anyway I guess your point is that because they are shapeshifting in the lucid dream/astral/mind/whatever, that means that they arnt actually shapeshifting? I think thats what you're getting at. But that doesnt mean shapeshifting is impossible and doesnt change where I believe the myths may have come from. Or are you saying that people can "See" these astral werewolves and witches? So that others experience them also? If shared dreaming is possible(I believe it is)then I guess others could see them during that time. In regards to others 'seeing' them in waking time, I think the dreamer would have to be inside anothers physical body. So I think the witch/shifter could go inside an animals real body or even a persons. I know this isnt a proven thing but I believe its possible. I've had some strange experiences with that also which is why I believe in it. I guess do a search for 'ice factory' to find one. Edited January 7, 2013 by Kazahel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 7, 2013 #58 Share Posted January 7, 2013 .... Anyway I guess your point is that because they are shapeshifting in the lucid dream/astral/mind/whatever, that means that they arnt actually shapeshifting? I think thats what you're getting at. But that doesnt mean shapeshifting is impossible and doesnt change where I believe the myths may have come from. If shared dreaming is possible(I believe it is)then I guess others could see them during that time. In regards to others 'seeing' them in waking time, I think the dreamer would have to be inside anothers physical body. So I think the witch/shifter could go inside an animals real body or even a persons. I know this isnt a proven thing but I believe its possible. I've had some strange experiences with that also which is why I believe in it. I guess do a search for 'ice factory' to find one. That seems fair enough. I believe in prophetic type dreaming where things you dream about can come true, I ascribe that to religious experiences, but others will call it all kinds of things. I believe it is the same kind of brain activity involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted January 9, 2013 #59 Share Posted January 9, 2013 True enough. But what evidence do we have to say that this myth is based on a real person? None, as far as I know. If they said this mythical figure lived in 3853 BC, at least that would be a starting point. Or any of the ancients speaking of him as more then a myth... Its on Anthropologists Soiciologists to figure out that. Many folklore stories are based on observation. Thats why we have same stories in same cultures. You must study to become person who would decoded some myths. Usualy you need help of science such as chemistry and physics, astronomy and archaeology and so on. This particualar case I didnt study. But transformation, metamorphosis was common trait in ancient Greeks and even Romans. What author of that myth wanted to tell us is up to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted January 9, 2013 #60 Share Posted January 9, 2013 just because you can name a few examples where myths reflect real life.. it in no way means that ALL myths are based on true stories... i am more inclined to believe like Urisk stated that they are more for the need to explain away things. Look at all the mythical stories that surround the creation of man... surely they are not ALL true accounts. Read my above post. Old testament is mythology. It is allegory. Ofcourse earth isnt created in 7 days. But its their way of explaining it. Some mythology spoke even close what we know suspect is might be a true. Such as Hindu. But Creation myths deserve own category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted January 9, 2013 #61 Share Posted January 9, 2013 So perhaps yes, some myths may stem from truth- but more often than not it's only half-truths. The Cyclopes would be another example. The ancient Greeks found old elephant skulls, and the large hole wherethe trunk extends from was mistakenly identified as a singe lage eye. That's a myth- In this case it stems from something that was tangible, but it was way off the course; we know there are no Cyclopean giants. Kelpies stem from strong under-currents in pools and rivers, perhaps the thermocline in large bodies of water like lochs. As far as I'm aware there are no water horses swimming around in Scottish waters. More people would die unexplainable deaths otherwise. You are right. Ancient wanted to describe something they didnt knew what was so they use explainations from their own. That depends on writter history, characther, beliefs,education. As in today world. But Myths were not Fairies. There are two different students for each thing. One is Anthropologists. Other study Comperative literature or Languages or Journalism perhaps. Tolkien wrote fantasy. Homer obviously didnt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted January 9, 2013 #62 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Even some old faires were perhaps once myth. Borthers Grimm collected strories across Europe. And in original they were brutal. In Cinderella, mother cut her daughter heel so she could wear lost shoe. Who knows are these stories true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danii123 Posted March 13, 2014 #63 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Look at it this way, maybe there is such thing as werewolves but maybe they're not what we think, maybe they don't change form, and maybe we got them all wrong? There could be a thing were they look like normal people its just that they're senses are heightened and that they have or don't have the same ability's of humans. And maybe they are real and maybe they're not, but until hard proof comes about we will have to go with our beliefs. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danii123 Posted March 13, 2014 #64 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) You are right. Ancient wanted to describe something they didnt knew what was so they use explainations from their own. That depends on writter history, characther, beliefs,education. As in today world. But Myths were not Fairies. There are two different students for each thing. One is Anthropologists. Other study Comperative literature or Languages or Journalism perhaps. Tolkien wrote fantasy. Homer obviously didnt. Edited March 13, 2014 by Danii123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danii123 Posted March 13, 2014 #65 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Even some old faires were perhaps once myth. Borthers Grimm collected strories across Europe. And in original they were brutal. In Cinderella, mother cut her daughter heel so she could wear lost shoe. Who knows are these stories true? Maybe, maybe the human population today isn't looking hard enough for hard facts on any of the fairy tales we were read in our child hood, But everything that happened in history is able to be found, it just depends if we know where to look, and how hard we look, So considering the fact that werewolves and vampires originated in Europe (Germany and Romania and in Greek mythology ) that means its got to start there, If you really know where and how to look for the facts that maybe these myths are true, If you look in the in the right spot and are looking right then the facts will show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougward5 Posted March 13, 2014 #66 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Myself I don't think shapeshifters have anything to do with modern sightings at least...heck even the witchhunters decided for the most part physical transformation was impossible I tend to think the werewolf cases were pretty much like the swift runner case ...more akin to demonic activity or insanity than anything else.. for those who might be interested in modern sightings check out my post on the " chilton county booger " ..I linked a video that could be of interest to a select few folks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werewolf_Genesis Posted March 13, 2014 #67 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I .......live.....again.... ~cue Bad Ash impersonation~ I am glad to see that werewolf threads are finally getting some traffic on the Myths and Legends side of the forum. Crypto isn't the only topic listed, yanno. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1212 Posted March 13, 2014 #68 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Look at it this way, maybe there is such thing as werewolves but maybe they're not what we think, maybe they don't change form, and maybe we got them all wrong? There could be a thing were they look like normal people its just that they're senses are heightened and that they have or don't have the same ability's of humans. And maybe they are real and maybe they're not, but until hard proof comes about we will have to go with our beliefs. Just saying. Go on, say it, you're a werewolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted March 17, 2014 #69 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I could even understand someone saying they feel like they identify with being a werewolf, but I just can not stand people calling themselves lycans, because that word was made up for the Underworld movies. It just was not used commonly before that. It is like calling yourself a hobbit, rather then a little person/dwarf/midget. Because hobbit is word that Tolkien made up. (Though some argue the word's similarity to hobgoblin points at the origin.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urisk Posted March 17, 2014 #70 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The difference being that Hobbit comes from a highly acclaimed book that has been much loved for long enough to become a part of our culture wheras the Underworld movies are... well let's just be polite and say they're not... Is there not a fossil human nicknamed the "hobbit"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted March 17, 2014 #71 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The difference being that Hobbit comes from a highly acclaimed book that has been much loved for long enough to become a part of our culture wheras the Underworld movies are... well let's just be polite and say they're not... Is there not a fossil human nicknamed the "hobbit"? Yes, but no one is actually pretending that those Indonesian little people were actually Tolkien style Hobbits. While many people actually proclaim they are lycans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Topp Posted March 23, 2014 #72 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Does getting rabies mean I am now a werewolf? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros of Skaro Posted March 23, 2014 #73 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Does getting rabies mean I am now a werewolf? Depends what had bitten you. You could be a werebat, werecoon, werecat, werepossum, werehobo............. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted March 23, 2014 #74 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Does getting rabies mean I am now a werewolf? It means you're going to need a painful series of shot into the abdomen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted March 24, 2014 #75 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It means you're going to need a painful series of shot into the abdomen. You post was humorous, however, rabies vaccinations are no longer given in the stomach. They are a simple series of shots in the arm. When I got my pre-exposure vaccination it was three shots in the arm. 1st shot, then 7 days later 2nd shot, then the final shot on the 21st day. It was also very, very expensive. If someone is exposed or thought to be exposed to rabies, in a perfect world the animal in question should be captured as the only sure way to know if an animal is rabid, unfortunately, is by examining its brain. There is no working non-lethal test. Whether or not the animal is captured, after a questionable bite, the vaccine will be administered in three shots to the arm over the course of 14 days or so with an immunoglobin along with the first shot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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