67 replies to this topic

[odas]

I know what happened, I have the scars to always remember,never forget and never forgive. God bless Croatia, God bless Bosnia and Hercegovina.

[Knight Of Shadows]

happy for you , it's wrong world we live in when a person does the right thing he's frame
am glad he's a freeman

[the L]

odas, on 16 November 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

I know what happened, I have the scars to always remember,never forget and never forgive. God bless Croatia, God bless Bosnia and Hercegovina.

We all have scars true. But I forgive them. They didnt knew what they are doing. Mostly Serbs were tricked by their goverments propaganda.As usual dictators as Milošević and his team not just killed other people like Slovenians, Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians but their goverment show brutality on their own people.

Did Serbs made agression on Slovenia especially on Croatia and Bosnia? No doubt.
Did they done massacres and have concentration camps? No doubt.

But we must NOT forget because of all deads.

Do I personally forgive them ? Yes. Forgivness. But always will remember it.

I wonder what do you say on Balašević song "Čovjek sa mjesecom u očima" (Man with moon in his eyes)
Its song about Vukovar.

[the L]

Knight Of Shadows, on 16 November 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

happy for you , it's wrong world we live in when a person does the right thing he's frame
am glad he's a freeman

I supossed that you are not living in hell but if I knew your homeland I could give you analogy. He is defently professional soldier. He was trained in French legion of foreigners.
He was accused for overmuch bomberdment of enemies lines. Imagine.

Truth is that he was part ofmilitary action Storm or Oluja on Croatian.

That action was studied by US army and Israel army. One Israel general said: Those kind of action can only be done by professional armies. And not just any. I think only three armies in world are capable for such manouvers. USA ,Israel and Croatia.

Edited by the L, 16 November 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[Helen of Annoy]

To quote general Gotovina: „We are happy to be here with you tonight. This is our joint victory. There was the Operation Storm (final liberation operation in Homeland war) and this was the legal storm. We won. This was the end (of war). War belongs to the past now. Let us turn together to the future.“

And general Markač: “Thank you all who were with us in our toughest moments. In my heart I’ve always had my homeland and my homeland are you. I knew I wasn’t alone and it made everything easier. I knew there was no criminal enterprise and that Croatian army and Croatian police have honourably liberated their homeland.”

[the L]

What can I say. 100.000 Croats welcomed Generals.

[Helen of Annoy]

I understand you, L, totally, but you must stop posting at this rate, let people absorb the info. There's the whole future ahead of us, we don't have to say everything in one thread

[odas]

the L, on 16 November 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

We all have scars true. But I forgive them. They didnt knew what they are doing. Mostly Serbs were tricked by their goverments propaganda.As usual dictators as Milošević and his team not just killed other people like Slovenians, Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians but their goverment show brutality on their own people.

Did Serbs made agression on Slovenia especially on Croatia and Bosnia? No doubt.
Did they done massacres and have concentration camps? No doubt.

But we must NOT forget because of all deads.

Do I personally forgive them ? Yes. Forgivness. But always will remember it.

I wonder what do you say on Balašević song "Čovjek sa mjesecom u očima" (Man with moon in his eyes)
Its song about Vukovar.

There are of course serbs who did not participate in all this. Do not forget that our bosnian general who orgsnized the defence is a serb.
I can not blame all serbs. But for those who nee what they are doing, who activly participated or supported the killings, for them my statement stands.

[the L]

Hi Helen of Annoy,


What a historic moment aha?
Maybe General Gotovina is not aware that HV (Croatian Army) made discloser on their military files.
After Oluja on Croatian field was done one more action. Its called special psychological military action -Vukovarska Golubica ( Vukovars pigeon-based on Eneolithic Vučedol culture). That was changed name. First name of Operation was Chariots of Fire-Name came from Slavonian farmer chariots. In Bosnia there was action Maestral and South move or Južni potez.

[the L]

Helen of Annoy, on 16 November 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

I understand you, L, totally, but you must stop posting at this rate, let people absorb the info. There's the whole future ahead of us, we don't have to say everything in one thread

Do you think that some followers of Milošević will show up here? Now that would be interesting.

[Helen of Annoy]

the L, on 16 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Do you think that some followers of Milošević will show up here? Now that would be interesting.

No. But if they do, we will behave like general Gotovina: firm, but dignified, calm and honest.


(Of course I can't keep calm, but I'm not a general )

[the L]

Now allow me to explain to you dear UMers why he is General as Napoleon, Caesar, Gustavus Adolphus, Hannibal, Zhukov, Nader Shah , Patton...


It was longest military line after World War 2. It was 630 km of enemies line. To break such line depth of impact of army must have been 50 km.
So when operation Oluja started our special forces made 50 km impact behind enemy lines.
Before action Oluja we were secretly listen Milošević, main negative protagonist of all this mess. so we knew every next move ordered by this mad man.
With drones we takes photo of every inch of enemy lines. When operation started we knew where every theor tank was.
Our neighbours Bosnia and Herzegovinia, homeland of Odas allow Croatian special forces Tigers to made action Summer 95 or Ljeto 95 and in that action we capture peak "Šator" or Tent on english. That was strategic move first. And tactical.
Tactic is what is done on battlfield and strategy is what is done behind. Manouvers.
Our special forces of police were already on Velebit since 1993 and since 1994 HVor Croatian Army was on Dinara mountain.
Now all this time Croatia was under embargo so we must secretly and illegal to armed ourselves to defend from 3rd army in Europe. JNA-Yugoslavian Army with Serbian Chetniks.
Peter W. Galbraith propsed plan Z4 where he allow Serbs to have state inside of Croatia. Meaning that Croatia gave up on us territory.
Ofcourse we refused that and we demand AVNOJ borders. Then USA and Clinton gave us 10 days.
So stake was high. Either we get all in 10 days or loose all.

Operation Oluja should be 8 days before it happened but because of secret mobilization problems happened week later.
General Stipetić was on east in Đakovo securing east line. Croats also secured south line just in case Yugoslavia will attack either from Serbia or from Montenegro.

In 2 a.m. on August 4th 1995 action started.
All Serbian informative lines were blocked so their artilery was cut from thier infantry.

1000 special policemen on Velebit with 35 kg of equipment and ammunition and on 1600 meters above sea level came on high resistance. Bunkers.
Amnog special forces there was 12 complete teams of surgeons, anesthesiologists, nurses with big loads of blood for transfussion.
Because of heavy terrain all operation were done on scene.

General Norac with his Wolf brigade attacked from Lika and General Crnjac from Karlovac.
When you break enemy line you must have impact forces who would like spear break line. That line breakers in Croatian Army were Tigers.
Croatian Army have mission to melt with 5 Corpus of Army of Bosnia and Herzegovnia trough Kapela.

General Korade on 5.8. lead liberation of Croatian city Knin with his Pumas. Later 4th Brigade under Krstičević which are aka Spiders join Korade.
On first day of breaking lines we have difficulties in sector Petrinja. That was a result of changing plans in headquarters in Zagreb.
Now if you read carefully what I wrote you will remember that you must have something like spear forces which will break lines. In this area we loose sharpness and attack as parallel line. Parallel lines cant break other.
In 2nd. Brigade we have 18 deads with commander of battalion dead. 60 wounded. 8 elite special force soldiers were killed which is a lot for special forces. One special force soldiers counts as 11 normal. So it was like you loose 88 soldiers. Then General Stipetić overtakes command.

So four days after USA allow us to liberate our country , on August 08th 1995, Čedo Bulat sign capitulation on the car of Croatian police while General Stipetić smiled.

Many others are involved. Minister of defense Gojko Šušak,Admiral Domazet Lošo.
Croatia did information war before attacking Serbs.
192 000 people were involved in Operation Oluja.


We liberated 11 000 km2. We spent on daily basis 1200 tones of ammunition and 400 tones of fuel.
Now thats huge numbers.


Now where Gotovina in all this story. Well  caporal chef have keyrole in all strategic actions. In taking peak Šator in Bosnia. In action Maslenica. In liberation of Knin. He was commander in melted army of HV and HVO in action Maestral. All hard work in Dalmatia and Hezegovinia was done by Ante. He led Croatian army which came 23 km of BanjaLuka where Serbs have 50 000 soldiers.

Then when Ante Gotovina was in fron of Banja Luka USA gave sign to Croatian goverment that we must stop with all action like they were surprised how much did we in 4 days.
Ante Gotivna was in that light responsible for Dayton agreement. He created terms for it with his tactics and strategical manuvers.

From 4 to 7 August 1995 , 124 croatian soldier died. 20 officers and 18 non-commissioned officers.
What does information tells you that our officers were in front lines. And everyone who was under Ante Gotovina said that he was always near front lines.
On other hand 575 Serb soldiers died and 1850 soldiers were wounded.


Operation is now studied in US Army with Cannae, Alesia and similar.
Its par excellence of modern warfare. and Gotovina played keyrole in it.

Okay Helena now I will keep my mouth closed.

Edited by the L, 16 November 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[the L]

[the L]

Croats sing "Moja domovina" (My homeland)
It has a strenght of golden wheat
It has eyes of the sea
My homeland.

Edited by the L, 16 November 2012 - 11:56 PM.

[the L]

Today our war of indenpendence finally is over.