Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Nazi Atomic bomb used in 1943


  • Please log in to reply
126 replies to this topic

#31    tazjet

tazjet

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Joined:03 Oct 2010

Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:03 PM

View PostPower Lust, on 01 November 2010 - 07:30 PM, said:

I think we have to take into consideration allied propaganda.

Would they ever tell us if they'd produced small amounts of nuclear material and used them on the Russians?

All I know is in the last weeks of the war the Aliies were paniacing and desperate to defeat Hitler. I think a large scale bomb was on its way.

Power Lust I think the Nazis were further advanced than most people understand, but you are correct that the Allies retrospectively suppressed knowledge of this. The Dallenbach project for example remains classified to this day.

The Germans had tactical nukes in 1943-44. They were working on a larger bomb. Dornberger disclosed to hidden microphones whilst interned after the war at CSDIC Camp 11 in Wales that Hitler intended more for the V-2 than just 2 tons of high explosives. There were inferences given to the OSS by their informant Respondek that the German Atomic weapon was due for use by October 1944.

In July 1944 Churchill was so fearful of an imminent nuclear attack on England that he warned Hitler that the RAF would retaliate with mass seeding of Anthrax across Germany. The United States amplified Churchill's threat by warning Hitler through Lisbon of an intention by USA to drop an atomic weapon on Dresden unless Hitler sued for peace within six weeks.

Respondek who worked for the Nazi Economic Ministry was arrested following the bomb plot against Hitler on 20th July 1944. In Jail he was approached by Himler to take a peace feeler to Sam Woods in Switzerland.

The reason Germany failed use nukes was not because they lacked the technical competence. In fact an Austrian scientist named Professor Lachner revealed from Argentina after the war that 15 nuclear weapons were built by Germany before the war ended and two of these fell into Soviet hands.

Dresden was targeted in February 1945 because it housed Max Steenbeck's plasma physics laboratory vital to Dallenbach's project and the Allies wanted it destroyed before Dresden fell to the Soviets. In fact the laboratory survived Dresden's bombing and afterwards equipment was evacuated south by Dr Rolf Wideroe to Kreis Ebermannstadt.


#32    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 16,065 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:19 PM

View Posttazjet, on 03 October 2010 - 10:04 AM, said:

The following intercepted Japanese diplomatic signal was intercepted during World War 2: "Stockholm to Tokyo" No. 232.9 December 1944 (War Department), National Archives, RG 457,  declassified October 1, 1978.

I went to the National Archive Online and tried to search for this document. I could not find it. Perhaps you would be so kind as to introduce some proof that it is real?

I have seen it all over the internet, thanks to google searches, but none of those quotes has a link to the original source, or a picture of the document. Given... a picture of the document does not really mean anything either.

Unless we can all read the document, then what you are posting is just hearsay.

Quote

Source:
Wilcox, Robert K. "Japan's Secret War" pub 1985
Sounds like an interesting book.

Here is what Wikipedia has to say:

Quote

The 1985 book "Japan's Secret War: Japan's Race Against Time to Build Its Own Atomic Bomb" by Robert K. Wilcox reprinted the Snell material as part of its investigation of Japan's World War Two nuclear research. In addition to detailing the known Japanese army and navy efforts, the book cited numerous intelligence reports and interviews which indicated the Japanese might have had an atomic program at Konan and offered evidence that the Japanese Navy, taking up the atomic project after Nishinas separator at Riken had been destroyed, had accelerated Japanese efforts to make a nuclear weapon.

A review by Department of Energy employee Roger M. Anders appeared in the journal Military Affairs:

Journalist Wilcox' book describes the Japanese wartime atomic energy projects. This is laudable, in that it illuminates a little-known episode; nevertheless, the work is marred by Wilcox' seeming eagerness to show that Japan created an atomic bomb. Tales of Japanese atomic explosions, one a fictional attack on Los Angeles, the other an unsubstantiated account of a post-Hiroshima test, begin the book. (Wilcox accepts the test story because the author [Snell], "was a distinguished journalist"). The tales, combined with Wilcox' failure to discuss the difficulty of translating scientific theory into a workable bomb, obscure the actual story of the Japanese effort: uncoordinated laboratory-scale projects which took paths least likely to produce a bomb.
http://en.wikipedia...._weapon_program

Also here is a link to AboveTopSecret.com where this subject was discussed and dismissed a couple weeks ago. Apparently the warhead design is ridiculously inadiquite for what a nuclear device would need for critical mass.
http://www.abovetops...hread620332/pg1

Edited by DieChecker, 01 November 2010 - 09:19 PM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#33    Power Lust

Power Lust

    Psychic Spy

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,054 posts
  • Joined:09 Jun 2010
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 01 November 2010 - 10:30 PM

View Posttazjet, on 01 November 2010 - 08:03 PM, said:

Power Lust I think the Nazis were further advanced than most people understand, but you are correct that the Allies retrospectively suppressed knowledge of this. The Dallenbach project for example remains classified to this day.

The Germans had tactical nukes in 1943-44. They were working on a larger bomb. Dornberger disclosed to hidden microphones whilst interned after the war at CSDIC Camp 11 in Wales that Hitler intended more for the V-2 than just 2 tons of high explosives. There were inferences given to the OSS by their informant Respondek that the German Atomic weapon was due for use by October 1944.

In July 1944 Churchill was so fearful of an imminent nuclear attack on England that he warned Hitler that the RAF would retaliate with mass seeding of Anthrax across Germany. The United States amplified Churchill's threat by warning Hitler through Lisbon of an intention by USA to drop an atomic weapon on Dresden unless Hitler sued for peace within six weeks.

Respondek who worked for the Nazi Economic Ministry was arrested following the bomb plot against Hitler on 20th July 1944. In Jail he was approached by Himler to take a peace feeler to Sam Woods in Switzerland.

The reason Germany failed use nukes was not because they lacked the technical competence. In fact an Austrian scientist named Professor Lachner revealed from Argentina after the war that 15 nuclear weapons were built by Germany before the war ended and two of these fell into Soviet hands.

Dresden was targeted in February 1945 because it housed Max Steenbeck's plasma physics laboratory vital to Dallenbach's project and the Allies wanted it destroyed before Dresden fell to the Soviets. In fact the laboratory survived Dresden's bombing and afterwards equipment was evacuated south by Dr Rolf Wideroe to Kreis Ebermannstadt.

Regardless off fisson I wonder why the Nutzis didnt dirty bomb us.

If they planned to get their attack in first they could have given themselves enough time to make gas masks for their people.

Edited by Power Lust, 01 November 2010 - 10:30 PM.


#34    tazjet

tazjet

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Joined:03 Oct 2010

Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:42 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 01 November 2010 - 09:19 PM, said:

I went to the National Archive Online and tried to search for this document. I could not find it. Perhaps you would be so kind as to introduce some proof that it is real?

I have seen it all over the internet, thanks to google searches, but none of those quotes has a link to the original source, or a picture of the document. Given... a picture of the document does not really mean anything either.

Unless we can all read the document, then what you are posting is just hearsay.

These are archives from the US National Archives also called NARA. Only some selected files are posted online and these are mainly through the German Archive service. I have quoted it from books where it has been published previously. Mehner und Meyer have published it and so to has Joseph Farrell. If you want to consult the original there seems little choice except to visit the the US National Archives in person sorry.

The document has been widely published for some time and correctly referenced.


#35    tazjet

tazjet

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Joined:03 Oct 2010

Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:56 AM

View PostPower Lust, on 01 November 2010 - 10:30 PM, said:

Regardless off fisson I wonder why the Nutzis didnt dirty bomb us.

If they planned to get their attack in first they could have given themselves enough time to make gas masks for their people.


Probably three reasons:

1) As I noted it's also widely reported and published that Hitler was threatened with Anthrax by Churchill in July 1944. On 5 August 1944 Hitler met with Roumania's Marshal Antonescu and discussed the tremendous destructive power of Germany's new atomic bomb. Roumania errupted in civil war shortly afterwards and Antonescu was hung after a war crimes trial. However he mentioned that during the meeting, Hitler said he would not use such weapons until germany could adequately defend itself against similar weapons which the Allies threatened Germany with. Remember too that the Japanese signal reveals Soviet threats to use poison gas against Germany. Germany was starved of rubber for gas masks too. Against Anthrax they lacked antibiotics.

2) Lack of adequate delivery systems and not enough nuclear weapons to make a difference. No matter how clever the Germans were and no matter what process they used to obtain fissile material for bombs it was a slow time consuming process. They say you should never start a fight unless you are certain of finishing it.

3) The Americans demanded Hitler parley for peace. Several indications suggest that up until April 1945, Hitler seriously believed the Americans would join germany in a fight against Bolshevism. If such an undertaking were given then I can understand why the Western Allies dare not admit this fact after the war. Stalin had a powerful military and it could have kept rolling all the way to the Atlantic coast of Europe if Stalin so chose.


#36    Hanslune

Hanslune

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 443 posts
  • Joined:10 Sep 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bahrain

Posted 02 November 2010 - 02:48 PM

View Posttazjet, on 02 November 2010 - 12:56 AM, said:

Probably three reasons:

1) As I noted it's also widely reported and published that Hitler was threatened with Anthrax by Churchill in July 1944. On 5 August 1944 Hitler met with Roumania's Marshal Antonescu and discussed the tremendous destructive power of Germany's new atomic bomb. Roumania errupted in civil war shortly afterwards and Antonescu was hung after a war crimes trial. However he mentioned that during the meeting, Hitler said he would not use such weapons until germany could adequately defend itself against similar weapons which the Allies threatened Germany with. Remember too that the Japanese signal reveals Soviet threats to use poison gas against Germany. Germany was starved of rubber for gas masks too. Against Anthrax they lacked antibiotics.

2) Lack of adequate delivery systems and not enough nuclear weapons to make a difference. No matter how clever the Germans were and no matter what process they used to obtain fissile material for bombs it was a slow time consuming process. They say you should never start a fight unless you are certain of finishing it.

3) The Americans demanded Hitler parley for peace. Several indications suggest that up until April 1945, Hitler seriously believed the Americans would join germany in a fight against Bolshevism. If such an undertaking were given then I can understand why the Western Allies dare not admit this fact after the war. Stalin had a powerful military and it could have kept rolling all the way to the Atlantic coast of Europe if Stalin so chose.

1. 'Widely reported in the fringe world only' Debunk here  http://www.julianlewis.net/local_news_detail.php?id=9

2. The simple answer is they didn't have it - remember we have the statements of nearly all surviving German nuclear scientists and technicians - they never even got close and were going down the wrong path

3. The Allies demanded unconditional surrender as per the Following the Casablanca Conference in January 1943, the Allies announced an unconditional surrender policy with respect to the Axis powers, that is, the Allies would fight on until such time as the Axis powers surrendered unconditionally. In fact, Italy was allowed to surrender in 1943 with some conditions,(switching sides) but German capitulated unconditionally in May 1945


#37    altitudewarrior

altitudewarrior

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Joined:13 Apr 2012

Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:17 AM

View PostBelial, on 03 October 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

Any proof of that statement?

In 1982 retired General KAWASHIMA Touransouke gave an interview on Japanese TV in which he advised that 2000kilograms of Uranium was shipped to Japan during 1944 by U-boats.

It is kind of a myth that Germany lacked heavy water. It is a historical fact that Nazi germany operated more than one Heavy Water distillation plant. These were the plants they operated:


# 1) Leuna plant south of Mersberg near Berlin (Harteck/Suess process - codename Stalin Organ)

# 2) Kiel Plant 4 km outside Kiel, wooded area (Dr K Geibs hydrogen sulphide exchange process)

# 3) Hamburg Plant (possibly near Zeven, Harteck low pressure distilation process)

# 4) Munich Plant (Clusius-Linde, Nernst Distribution Process)

# 5) Vemork (Haber-Bosch process) Norway

# 6) Saheim (Haber-Bosch process) Norway

# 7) Montecantini plant at Merano, Italy  (near Bolzano)

In addition Prof Kurt Deibner revealed to Dr Karl Wirtz six weeks after the sinking of the ferry Hydro on Lake Tinso that they were pre-warned of an attack on the ferry and sent a dummy cargo of lightly distilled water on the ferry. Deibner boasted that the real cargo went by truck and survived the journey. Diebner was the head of the Army Ordnance Department's Forschungstelle E, or atomic bomb project.

Heisenberg had nothing directly to do with Forschungstelle E.

Forschungstelle E had two scientists General Dr Eric Schumann and Dr Walter Trinks. From 1941 onwards together they submitted 40 patents for a nuclear weapon design totally unlike anything the Allies produced.

After the war Deibner came to USA as part of Operation Paperclip and taught USA how to miniaturise nuclear weapons resulting in the Swan device.

Posted Image

The Schumann/Trinks bomb worked by slamming two molten Lithium liners into a marble size target of Uranium 233 coated with Lithium Deuteride. This collision of Lithium and Deuteride under huge pressures and temperatures caused a Plasma Pinch which released a rush of Neutrons into a Fissile target.

Source "Hitler's Bomb", (2005) by Rainer Karlsch & Heiko Petermann


#38    altitudewarrior

altitudewarrior

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Joined:13 Apr 2012

Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:26 AM

View PostPower Lust, on 01 November 2010 - 10:30 PM, said:

Regardless off fisson I wonder why the Nutzis didnt dirty bomb us.

If they planned to get their attack in first they could have given themselves enough time to make gas masks for their people.

Apparently they did make an attempt to bomb New York with a Junkers Ju-390 on 17-18 September 1944. The aircraft is on the seabed just off Owl's Point, Maine, USA. On 28 September the bodies of three Luftwaffe aviators were recovered from the waters of nearby Penobscot River estury and were taken to the nearby Coast Guard station. A constructor's plate for the aircraft was removed by a diver from Vermont who announced it was a Junkers RMZ tag and the aircraft had six engines.


#39    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,885 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please - Mark Twain

Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:51 AM

View Postaltitudewarrior, on 13 April 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

Apparently they did make an attempt to bomb New York with a Junkers Ju-390 on 17-18 September 1944. The aircraft is on the seabed just off Owl's Point, Maine, USA. On 28 September the bodies of three Luftwaffe aviators were recovered from the waters of nearby Penobscot River estury and were taken to the nearby Coast Guard station. A constructor's plate for the aircraft was removed by a diver from Vermont who announced it was a Junkers RMZ tag and the aircraft had six engines.

Indeed that may be true, but certainly not with nuclear devices. If they actually had nuclear devices (which we know that they had not), they would have been much more useful in the theater of war. i.e., the Eastern front or at British Airfields.

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#40    spud the mackem

spud the mackem

    Spud the Mackem

  • Member
  • 3,251 posts
  • Joined:28 Oct 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Yeo Valley,Darkest Somerset.

  • man who ask for nothing shall never be disappointed

Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:01 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 13 April 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

Indeed that may be true, but certainly not with nuclear devices. If they actually had nuclear devices (which we know that they had not), they would have been much more useful in the theater of war. i.e., the Eastern front or at British Airfields.

Cheers,
Badeskov
The Germans were good at most things and still are,except designing a better plane than a Spitfire.If they had, I guess the Battle of Britain would have been lost,and Britain would have been invaded, but we also had a guy called Sir Winston Churchill who convinced them otherwise..Then America was attacked,and from then on it was bye bye Hitler..p.s there were Americans,Canadians,Poles,Czechs,and an Israeli,fighter pilots in the Battle of Britain,Thanks guys.

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#41    ealdwita

ealdwita

    Hwt oredmcg

  • Member
  • 4,658 posts
  • Joined:08 Jun 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:astcentingas , England

  • Hige sceal e heardra, heorte e cenre, mod sceal e mare, e ure mgen lytla.

Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 13 April 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

The Germans were good at most things and still are,except designing a better plane than a Spitfire.

Up to the Spit MkIX, the FW190A was the better aircraft in all respects.

Quote

..p.s there were Americans,Canadians,Poles,Czechs,and an Israeli,fighter pilots in the Battle of Britain,Thanks guys.

You forgot the French, New Zealanders, Rhodesians, Irish, S.Africans, Belgians, and one each Palestinian and Jamaican!

OK, I'll shut up now!

Posted Image

"G a wyrd swa hio scel, ac gecnwan n gef!": "Fate goes ever as she shall, but know thine enemy!".

"I was born with a priceless gift - the ability to laugh at other peoples' troubles" - Dame Edna Everage

#42    spud the mackem

spud the mackem

    Spud the Mackem

  • Member
  • 3,251 posts
  • Joined:28 Oct 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Yeo Valley,Darkest Somerset.

  • man who ask for nothing shall never be disappointed

Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:43 PM

View Postealdwita, on 13 April 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

Up to the Spit MkIX, the FW190A was the better aircraft in all respects.



You forgot the French, New Zealanders, Rhodesians, Irish, S.Africans, Belgians, and one each Palestinian and Jamaican!

OK, I'll shut up now!

Posted Image
Disagree on your aircraft post,or are you saying the German Pilots were not as good ? The Spitfire was acknowledged by the German Pilots ,to be far superior to what they had....I didnt forget the other foreign nationals I just didnt have time to add them in at the time I posted . Ok  you can shut up now, Cheers....

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#43    altitudewarrior

altitudewarrior

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Joined:13 Apr 2012

Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:43 PM

View Postbadeskov, on 13 April 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

Indeed that may be true, but certainly not with nuclear devices. If they actually had nuclear devices (which we know that they had not), they would have been much more useful in the theater of war. i.e., the Eastern front or at British Airfields.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Your response falls at the first hurdle... common sense. The ONLY possible mission for a Ju-390 in US airspace in September 1944 would be a nuclear attack.

By late 1944, Germany lacked air superiority over it's own skies and German bombers could not survive over British airspace during 1944, except for a few fast non-precision night attacks by He-177 bombers which had to dive from great height over Europe and escape at sea level. Bombing the UK was not a possibility by then.

The former Luftwaffe aviator pictured below, Peter Brill came forward a few years ago to say publicly that in 1944 he was trained as a celestial navigator for planned raid on New York:

Posted Image

It also fails because your reply ignores all historical context. On 2 September 1944 the British Newspaper Daily Telegraph warned of an imminent attack on New York.

Posted Image

From time to time there were genuine tips and warnings to the press from the British Government, often based on broadcast threats by the German Government. This Ju-390 raid fits the context and fits with Hitler's public threats after the bombing of Munich in 1944.  

Posted Image

There was no point in a raid on USA by a single aircraft with anything less than a nuclear weapon. It was a once only window of opportunity to strike, because after a first raid had tipped off US air defences there would never be another chance to strike New York.

Posted Image

Hitler was obsessed with bombing New York and in 1943 Goering drew up plans for a nuclear attack on New York resulting in this map which you have no logical explanation for.

Germany was manufacturing thousands of tons of Tabun-B nerve gas and stockpiling artillery rounds and aircraft bombs filled with nerve gas for a planned offensive in October 1944 according to an OSS report from Switzerland dated November 1944.

I am happy to accept your admission that you cannot bring yourself to believe the Germans had nuclear weapons, but that itself is no proof they did not exist and furthermore your conclusion ignores a growing swell of evidence from multiple independent sources which indicate the Germans did have nuclear weapons in 1943/44.


#44    altitudewarrior

altitudewarrior

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Joined:13 Apr 2012

Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 13 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Disagree on your aircraft post,or are you saying the German Pilots were not as good ? The Spitfire was acknowledged by the German Pilots ,to be far superior to what they had....I didnt forget the other foreign nationals I just didnt have time to add them in at the time I posted . Ok  you can shut up now, Cheers....

The truth is that both the Spitfire and the BF109/FW190 underwent constant powerplant upgrades to keep up with each other.

On the nuclear point The top secret Monsanto Report commissioned by the Manhattan Committee at the end of WW2 conceded that Nazi nuclear science in some ways was more advanced than Allied nuclear technology, so much so that the manhattan Committee was urged to suppress knowledge of Nazi nuclear research indefinitely.


#45    Spectre1979

Spectre1979

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 531 posts
  • Joined:05 Mar 2010

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:57 AM

Propoganda still working well after all these years!

There are things known, and things unknown and in between are the Doors!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users