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Existential Depression among the Gifted


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#76    Mr Walker

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:37 AM

View PostJGirl, on 26 November 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

i think the accusation of trolling had to do with the fact that seeker claims he intentionally baited the other readers with that information to see what they would do/say.
i'm not suggesting that is trolling, but i can see how it would be considered that by some.
in any case
the nature of IQ tests are such that if you train for them the score is not accurate.
it's like knowing the answers to a test already before sitting down to write it
i don't doubt your IQ is fairly high, just by reading your posts, but i doubt training for the test makes you more intelligent.
Tests measure the ability to do the test.  Training and practice is known to be the clearest and most effective way to improve scores in any test format. eg by understanding the nature of the questions more fully.

Iq tests measure Iq. If you can do well at them you have a high iq no mater how you managae it (as long as you are not cheating) The experts say you cant learn for Iq tests or improve your scores through familiarity and practice but that is bunkum.

I left high school with a measured IQ of about 120. At university it went up to the mid 130s  I also learned how to have a photographic memeory and went into my examms able to see a hundred pages of lecture notes from the year verbatim as I answered the questions.  After reading about president kennedy's success, I also taught myself to speed read so that i could read  understand and remember a page as fast as i could turn it. Those skills enable one also to improve your IQ.

when i started teaching and got involved with Iq testing of students i bumped it up to 160 plus as a sort of cahllenge to see how high I could go.

The highest consistent scores i have had were in the 180s Today i have dropped back considerably because it no longer challenges or interests me.. It depends a little on the forms of intelligence being tested and the weighting in each test type. I do most well on verbal and logic tests, and more poorly on spatial tests. but you can learn how to improve on your areas of weakness too.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#77    Mr Walker

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:46 AM

Ps i never lie on this forum because, indeed, one lie would destroy my credibility; but also because it is a matter of honour and principle to me. BUT "Mr walker" is my avatar not me. In other words readers only get to see a small part of who/what i am in my real life. Mr walker has a persona quite differnt in some respects from me. In other ways we are the same.

mr walker is honest and consistent as I am, but his life is less mundane than mine, because he only talks about the unexplained parts of it.

  I dont get to talk about the 30 hours a week of boring marking/ lesson preparation etc the hassles of modern teaching or taking out the garbage, doing the cooking etc. Mr walker talks about the 5% or so of my life which is kinda unusual and relevant to UM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#78    White Crane Feather

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:30 AM

View Post_Only, on 27 November 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:



Well, would you like to link to these threads you speak about where you did what you say you did? I don't believe this actually happened.
That's nice... I assure you it did. I'm not about to humer you or anyone else on some search for links to some random posts I made on some forum well over a year ago, so you can decide if I am unethically manipulating people or not. I have participated in dozens of forums.  It is by far the least fantastic thing I have said I have done on this forum.  None of which is untruthful.

Besides, It would be so very against my nature to oblige such a request to validate something so silly.

Edited by Seeker79, 27 November 2012 - 09:48 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#79    White Crane Feather

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:18 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 27 November 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:



It is not suprising that i replied, given that i do have a lot of empathy for seeker,
Part of what they are seeing is simply that early on I was timid at  entirely exposing  my thoughts and experiences and would hold back. Watching you post inspired me to rise above that irrational fear of not pleasing people. I'm in business, I have to do that all the time it was a habit.  I knew we had similar experiences by the things that you said, yet you were unafraid to expose yourself.

I am so very glad you set that example for me. I cant imagine poking my way around these forums hiding what I want to say. Unfortunately it seems that a few have decided we are the same person because of it. Which is very interesting because I had not intended to emulate you that much... But I'm a quick study when I learn something useful
Thank you. :)

Edited by Seeker79, 27 November 2012 - 10:21 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#80    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:08 AM

View PostKazahel, on 27 November 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

Thankyou.


No problem.. Because of so many on line   ( Facebook, my space and other forums ect )  go all out to pretend they are something  different   for fun and their entertainment, I now tend to be more skeptical  of so many tales I read .. Your post reminded me that I should not take all I hear and read seriously.. ...If I am pretending for fun, I would let others know it is just a bit of fun

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 27 November 2012 - 11:32 AM.

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#81    FurthurBB

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:00 PM

View PostCybele, on 27 November 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

Standardized tests like the SAT, ACT and GRE--all of which I've been required to take as a part of my education here in the U.S.-- are not IQ tests, though they may correlate with them. They are certainly correlated with educational attainment. I've never taken an official IQ test such as Stanford-Binet, WISC, WAIS, etc. I'm guessing from your use of "primary" school that you're from Britain?

I've taken many standardized tests required for school and a few summers ago I took an aptitude test because I thought it would help me figure out what sorts of careers would be best for me, based on my strengths and weaknesses. They all seem artificial and limited to me. For example, multiple choice or analogy vocabulary tests can't tell you if you truly understand what a word means. You can have a general sense for the meaning of a word and have no idea how to use it properly in a sentence or in writing without prompting. Or you could just be good at test-taking and eliminating incorrect answer choices.

I agree in that I don't think intelligence, by itself, determines the way in which you are treated. Personality, attitude and confidence are often more important in this regard.

No, I am from the US and I was talking about official IQ tests, not any standardized testing.  The only standardized test I took that I thought told anything about my knowledge was the GRE biology subject test.  The rest are kind of silly, including the regular GRE.


#82    FurthurBB

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostJinxdom, on 27 November 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

They watch you first, and see how quickly and accurately you do your work, then the start with the iq tests with the lovely bonus of still having to do those standardized tests.  Stray to far from the average(too high or too low) and your boned taking iq tests. At least it was the case in my elementary school back years ago.

Yes, that is what I am talking about.  My son had a learning disability where he takes in information faster than he can process it, so I can understand why they would want to IQ test him.  It turns out that on a written test he scores 116 and on a visual and verbal test he scores 138.  That showed the special school district that he needs verbal and visual cues to help him take tests.  They started testing me in second grade when my grandmother mentioned that the books they were giving me were too simple because of the books I had already read, like Gone with the Wind.  They gave my oldest daughter her first IQ test when she was 18 months old because she had always been a very strange baby.  She said her first word when she was still cooing and by 18 months had the vocabulary of a 4-year-old.  They wanted me to send her to kindergarten when she was 3, but I wouldn't.  I started school a year early and was put ahead 2 more times. They were always trying to force more and more academics on me when I had other interests.  I ended up dropping out when I was a sophomore after much skipping and then went back 2 years later.  The funny thing is when no one was pushing it on me, I ended up going to university for a cumulative 18 years and attaining a mess of degrees.


#83    Mr Walker

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 27 November 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:


Yes, that is what I am talking about.  My son had a learning disability where he takes in information faster than he can process it, so I can understand why they would want to IQ test him.  It turns out that on a written test he scores 116 and on a visual and verbal test he scores 138.  That showed the special school district that he needs verbal and visual cues to help him take tests.  They started testing me in second grade when my grandmother mentioned that the books they were giving me were too simple because of the books I had already read, like Gone with the Wind.  They gave my oldest daughter her first IQ test when she was 18 months old because she had always been a very strange baby.  She said her first word when she was still cooing and by 18 months had the vocabulary of a 4-year-old.  They wanted me to send her to kindergarten when she was 3, but I wouldn't.  I started school a year early and was put ahead 2 more times. They were always trying to force more and more academics on me when I had other interests.  I ended up dropping out when I was a sophomore after much skipping and then went back 2 years later.  The funny thing is when no one was pushing it on me, I ended up going to university for a cumulative 18 years and attaining a mess of degrees.
It makes me wonder if such abilities are genetic or a result of family practice. As stated earlier i was read to from birth and began reading by the age of two. All my family are avid readers and have extensive libraries.  And yet my mum never went past primary school.  Dad was very talented and creative.  Was it their genes, or the environment i was raised in, with a love and practice of reading, that set me on my path in life?..

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#84    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

My IQ is 136.. I have taken many IQ tests and 136  is my usual score..  I once got a 138, but I don't peg my IQ at 138, as my usual score is always 136 ..and I am happy with that...

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#85    JGirl

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:06 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 27 November 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Tests measure the ability to do the test.  Training and practice is known to be the clearest and most effective way to improve scores in any test format. eg by understanding the nature of the questions more fully.

Iq tests measure Iq. If you can do well at them you have a high iq no mater how you managae it (as long as you are not cheating) The experts say you cant learn for Iq tests or improve your scores through familiarity and practice but that is bunkum.

I left high school with a measured IQ of about 120. At university it went up to the mid 130s  I also learned how to have a photographic memeory and went into my examms able to see a hundred pages of lecture notes from the year verbatim as I answered the questions.  After reading about president kennedy's success, I also taught myself to speed read so that i could read  understand and remember a page as fast as i could turn it. Those skills enable one also to improve your IQ.

when i started teaching and got involved with Iq testing of students i bumped it up to 160 plus as a sort of cahllenge to see how high I could go.

The highest consistent scores i have had were in the 180s Today i have dropped back considerably because it no longer challenges or interests me.. It depends a little on the forms of intelligence being tested and the weighting in each test type. I do most well on verbal and logic tests, and more poorly on spatial tests. but you can learn how to improve on your areas of weakness too.
i was to understand that the point of the IQ test was to measure your perception, and a lot of that is being able to figure out what is expected of you with each 'problem' in order to solve it.
if you 'test' before the test you already know how they are structured.
that's what i was getting at
the more often i do an IQ test the easier it is because i already understand what is being asked of me.


#86    Mr Walker

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:34 PM

View PostJGirl, on 27 November 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

i was to understand that the point of the IQ test was to measure your perception, and a lot of that is being able to figure out what is expected of you with each 'problem' in order to solve it.
if you 'test' before the test you already know how they are structured.
that's what i was getting at
the more often i do an IQ test the easier it is because i already understand what is being asked of me.
You are correct. This is true of all tests, including IQ tests. it is why, once standardised tests are introduced into a school system, every school and teacher spends an inordinate amount of time teaching children how to do the tests and practicing them, so that their class wil perform credibly .None the less, performance at a test reflects ability to do the test, and thus what it is measuring.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#87    JGirl

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:36 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 27 November 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

You are correct. This is true of all tests, including IQ tests. it is why, once standardised tests are introduced into a school system, every school and teacher spends an inordinate amount of time teaching children how to do the tests and practicing them, so that their class wil perform credibly .None the less, performance at a test reflects ability to do the test, and thus what it is measuring.
you had me right up to your last sentence.
i would say performance at a test reflect ability to do the test, and thus measures one's ability to do the same thing better and better. it doesn't challenge what you do not yet know, which i believe is the true test of one's intelligence and perception,  not the ability to master an already learned task


#88    White Crane Feather

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:41 AM

View PostJGirl, on 27 November 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:


you had me right up to your last sentence.
i would say performance at a test reflect ability to do the test, and thus measures one's ability to do the same thing better and better. it doesn't challenge what you do not yet know, which i believe is the true test of one's intelligence and perception,  not the ability to master an already learned task
But you don't see the other level.. That of course should be part of the test.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#89    JGirl

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:54 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 28 November 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

But you don't see the other level.. That of course should be part of the test.
i don't think i follow you
i might not be expressing it in the right way
ok
in an IQ test you are presented with 'problems' but you don't get told what the problem is. you have to find out what it is and what is required to address it, and ultimately solve it
how do you get more intelligent just because they get harder or more obscure? the method is now known
seems to be that you just get better at what you already know. not that there's anything wrong with that, but i never thought that is how IQ was determined.


#90    Jinxdom

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:08 AM

I'm still trying to figure out what IQ actually means. My friend and I are completely different except for iq's both high enough to know better then to post it on the forums but he's what you consider smart and me quick and clever. Almost polar opposites. He was a preacher's kid, my family not so whats a good word for it unwholesome. He fit in with the Mensa crowd me not so much lol. He has a successful job and career engineering, I don't look very successful from the outside(yet I make almost the same as him) and my talents are more generalized. Basically another Batman vs Joker type deal.

What's funny though is when it comes to mine since he seen my test results... both him and I don't believe it because I take it with a grain of salt  and he sort of reacts like most people on the forum when iq is posted and is unbelievable. I could never get mad at it because of understanding comparisons. Since each test is different the results will be different so the meaning of IQ for the number they posted means something different. So why get bent out of shape trying to put the square peg in to the round hole?
Then again I'm clever and not smart.





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