Perfect Economy

[me-wonders]

Is a more sane future possible? I will do my best to keep up the spirit of unexplained mysteries, as some of explore the possibility that the New Age is near and does mean a better future. The book "The Mayan Factor" says there will be a complete economic breakdown and if you go to the following link, you will see how a complete economic breakdown can be avoided, because our economic system is about what people can get away with, not about reason grounded in math.

http://www.perfecteconomy.com/pg-math-walking.html

People will endure just about anything so long as they believe things are just and the future will be better. Perhaps nothing is more vital to world peace than economic justice. We need Socrates reasoning of justice to fully appreciate how important economic justice is. He concluded if people are exploited, soon or later they will become a problem that can not avoided. But maybe that is going too far. Banks playing with interest rates and the value of money going up and down, is playing with fire. When a poor country must sell its food before assuring its people are fed, because that is the deal cut with the money lenders, that is just immoral! As self governing people, shouldn't we have a better understanding of economics and have more power over things like the rate of interest banks can charge? If the whole system falls, maybe we should have another plan besides baling the banks out, and throwing our nation deeper into debt?

[Habitat]

I continue to be amazed at how the contagion of excessive borrowing spread so far and wide in the world. The lessons of the Japanese 'bubble economy' conveniently ignored. I suspect the best that can be hoped for in many countries is economic stagnation whilst debt is paid down.

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be; / For loan oft loseth both itself and friend. / And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."--Shakespeare

[George Ford]

without borrowing and paying back with interest then money/banks/governments/wars stops working. The men in charge know this, one way or another you will be forced to borrow.

[Habitat]

without borrowing and paying back with interest then money/banks/governments/wars stops working. The men in charge know this, one way or another you will be forced to borrow.

The problems evident today did not exist on any comparable scale 20 years ago, chalk it up to deregulation and globalisation.

[WoIverine]

Until the people tire of deceitful, greedy, and opportunistic leadership, it will always continue, regardless of whatever form the economy takes.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Spid3rCyd3

[lightly]

I continue to be amazed at how the contagion of excessive borrowing spread so far and wide in the world. The lessons of the Japanese 'bubble economy' conveniently ignored. I suspect the best that can be hoped for in many countries is economic stagnation whilst debt is paid down.

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be; / For loan oft loseth both itself and friend. / And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."--Shakespeare

Me too.

Proverbs 22:7 .. "The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender."

Romans 13:8 .. "Let no debt remain outstanding."

Proverbs 22:26-27 .. "Do not be a man who strikes hands in pledge or puts up security for debts; if you lack the means to pay, your very bed will be snatched from under you."

[Trog]

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be; / For loan oft loseth both itself and friend. / And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."--Shakespeare

I like that Shakespearian quote , but how many can manage that ? ... Numerology teaches that poverty always follows wealth , and that's why we should never be envious of the wealthy , because their next incarnation will be a life of poverty .... May be this applies to nations as well , I don't know , but if it does then America and a lot of other countries aren't looking too good , in fact some aren't looking too good right now .

Which leads me to believe that the financial downturn at the end of 08 was manipulated by some very clever people , and I have said this before and I'll say it again , money doesn't just evaporate in to thin air , it all ends up somewhere .... Those big money institutions that folded in 09 all started off with a lot of money that wasn't inflated wealth , it was hard cold cash , billions of dollars and it disappeared , all of it just vanished .

[me-wonders]

without borrowing and paying back with interest then money/banks/governments/wars stops working. The men in charge know this, one way or another you will be forced to borrow.

You sound smart so perhaps you can give us the history of kings borrowing money and what they borrowed for, and then who paid the debt? I believe revolutions have been about who spends and who pays.

[me-wonders]

Until the people tire of deceitful, greedy, and opportunistic leadership, it will always continue, regardless of whatever form the economy takes.

I am not sure about this. However, I am sure in a democracy that citizens must be well informed and active. They can not vote this party or that and then ignore what is going on in the government. They need pay attention every day,a and the need to communicate with their representatives and write letters to the editor, and demonstrate sometimes to get everyone's attention when there is a problem.

[Ashotep]

It may be a long time before the economy we use to have comes back, if ever. I think it was a big mistake for our government to give the very wealthy and big companies such a big tax break then go after Iraq and get us in even deeper debt. Lord knows how long we will be there. Probably until they run out of oil.

I thought revelations said something about "you would not be able to buy or sell". I thought that meant money would be of no value or no body would have any to buy anything with.

[Old Hippie Blogger]

An economy is not about how much money or wealth you have, but how that money flows. Having great wealth does not insure a robust economy if the flow of that wealth is outward. A robust economy results only when that wealth is circulated internally. Building a Tomahawk missile then exploding it results in the evaporation of a million dollars. Investing that same million dollars in a couple dozen wind turbines that generate salable energy results in income that in turn gets reinvested, thus generating additional income. The money circulates internally and benefits many people.

[me-wonders]

It may be a long time before the economy we use to have comes back, if ever. I think it was a big mistake for our government to give the very wealthy and big companies such a big tax break then go after Iraq and get us in even deeper debt. Lord knows how long we will be there. Probably until they run out of oil.

I thought revelations said something about "you would not be able to buy or sell". I thought that meant money would be of no value or no body would have any to buy anything with.

Rome began to fall when it exhausted its supply of gold, and began cutting its coins with cheap metals. The US had gold and then silver dollars. It has silver in its quarters and dimes, nickle in its nickles and copper in its pennies. That is no longer true. There is a relationship between shifting to money that has no value, and huge national debt.

We are very disconnected with reality. You are right about the oil, because it became our gold behind every industrial countries' money. That is our gross national product, depends on oil, and is good for credit. This is true of all nations. If a nation has no gold and no oil for its industry, I promise you, its women can not weave enough straw hats to make the nation wealthy. We are totally out of touch with reality.

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE BIBLE ENOUGH TO FIND WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT A TIME WHEN MONEY HAS NOT VALUE?

[me-wonders]

Old Hippie, I like what you say about the outward flow of money. We seriously need to talk about this. At all levels we have been making the darnedest decisions, and I just don't understand how we can be so stupid!

For example we had a place that bought people's plasma, and this gave money to a lot of people. It brought money into the city. Rich folks didn't like it so they forced this company out, and expected to make money with stores, where you bring things from out of the city and people in the city buy them. The building stood empty forever, so the city started renting the space with tax payer money, after being very much a part of driving away the company that brought money it. It helps to own down town property and sit on the city council.

Here is another genius move. We sell our property to people who don't live here, and they rent it to us.

Now where is my bottle of pills. I know it is around here somewhere. Awe, yes, now that fixes everything. Are you sure, Old Hippie, that investing in a wind mill is better than blowing up million dollar bombs? Did you do the math on that?

Edited August 4, 2011 by me-wonders

[Damrod]

Rome began to fall when it exhausted its supply of gold, and began cutting its coins with cheap metals. The US had gold and then silver dollars. It has silver in its quarters and dimes, nickle in its nickles and copper in its pennies. That is no longer true. There is a relationship between shifting to money that has no value, and huge national debt.

We are very disconnected with reality. You are right about the oil, because it became our gold behind every industrial countries' money. That is our gross national product, depends on oil, and is good for credit. This is true of all nations. If a nation has no gold and no oil for its industry, I promise you, its women can not weave enough straw hats to make the nation wealthy. We are totally out of touch with reality.

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE BIBLE ENOUGH TO FIND WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT A TIME WHEN MONEY HAS NOT VALUE?

There are these...not exactly but sort of...

He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.

(Proverbs 22:16)

Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom. Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.

(Proverbs 23:4,5)

He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor.

(Proverbs 28:8

A faithful man shall abound with blessings: but he that maketh haste to be rich shall not be innocent.

(Proverbs 28:20)

He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him.

(Proverbs 28:22)

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

--1 Timothy 6:10,11

I think it gets the point across though...Money, riches and material pleasures are not intended to be the goal of life because it is empty and fleeting.

[Habitat]

For every person indulging in lavish, luxury living, and motivated by considerations of status and prestige, not concerned about how it might affect others wellbeing, there are a dozen wannabees with a burning ambition to join them. That is basically what upholds economic inequity, the large group of budding would-be-if-they-could-be types in the wings. The pyramid selling phenomenon is a pretty good analogy. People don't want to change the system, they just want to emulate those they see at the apex of it.