160 replies to this topic

[psyche101]

quillius, on 20 June 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

This is quite interesting:

http://home.cropcirc...-hessdalen.html

from the link:

As everyone knows, it is a circular explanation: no-one really knows what the earth lights are. The lights are seen (and filmed) mostly in night-time but the local people have also told about grey disc or cigar shaped objects in the air which don't reflect light. There haven't been any observations of aliens and no abductions have occurred though there's been a couple of strange animal deaths that resemble "animal mutilations".

possible interpretation issues.

I have also read that there is no heat associated with Hessdalen lights, which illiminates one type of possible cattle death.

It would be good to know why the deaths are considered strange, articles do not say why, animal mutilation has viable prosaic explanations.

[psyche101]

Slave2Fate, on 20 June 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Speaking of mutilations, has there ever been evidence presented (for any case) that cannot be the result of normal decay and/or insect and animal scavenging?

Yes there is. Here is a pigs head being devoured by the most surprising candidates. Notice that the eyes are first to go, then the tongue and lower jaw, just as described in mutilation cases. No doubt proximity plays a part in this, the soft tissue is the first meat scavenged. And look how white those exposed bones are. And this is in a shed.



The famous drug cartels in South America explain human cases. From human intervention to natural causes, the phenomena can be explained with prosaic explanations.

[psyche101]

TheMcGuffin, on 20 June 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

My problem with plasmas, ball lightning and other similar explanations for UFOs is that they are usually very short duration events, generally only a fraction of a second or a few seconds in length, and I can't imagine them going on as long as this RB-47 incident or similar UFOs reported right around this time.  I also can't imagine them responding correctly to encrypted IFF messages or showing up on radar and radar detection equipment for a prolonged period.

If they did, they must be the most remarkable plasmas on record, and ones for which I can find no evidence in the scientific literature.  You'd think that such a remarkable phenomenon would by itself have provoked considerable scientific interest and curiosity because nothing like it had even been seen before.

That will depend on if earthlights are all plasma based or light refraction. Min Min lights have extensive duration and have followed people over very long distances.

[psyche101]

zoser, on 20 June 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Apart from the ones where 2 tonnes of earth have been surgically dug out and moved a couple of metres; because that happened in Hessdalen

Other strange phenomenon have been observed by locals in Hessdalen. One such phenomenon seems to be a cross between cattle mutilations and crop circles, except performed on the top layers of peat bogs. This very strange phenomenon was first discovered during the initial study. Hunters were on the trail of Deer in a inaccessible part of the valley when they came across a large section that had been sliced and removed from the bog. The top layer of the bog, approximately half a meter deep 5 meters x 1.5 meters across had been precision cut and shifted 10 meters away, perfectly intact. Seemingly with laser precision had the bog been cut. The slab that had been removed weighed an estimated 2 tons but there was no evidence of human trails or machinery of any kind. The ability to extract and move a single section of bog weighing 2 tons without using machine might suggest advanced technology. It was later discovered that this phenomenon had happened before further north in Norway. Exactly the same sized block of earth had been extracted and deposited meters away with great precision and zero trace of human activity. Not even foot prints were found.

Source:
http://www.highpants...ific-ufo-study/

Here is that initial study, dated 1984.

LINK

Where is the part about the bog?

[psyche101]

TheMcGuffin, on 20 June 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

I never heard of any mutes at Hessdalen, but I can't say that I ever followed the case very closely.  I do think that those occur from time to time.

Once, I even heard a story about a guy in Brazil who got dissolved after a UFO sprayed something on him.

Whoa, that's an intriguing start, may I bother you for a link if you have one. I'd like to read more on that one.

[TheMcGuffin]

psyche101, on 21 June 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

Whoa, that's an intriguing start, may I bother you for a link if you have one. I'd like to read more on that one.

It was called the Melting Man of Brazil case, and it took place in 1946.

http://mysteriousuni...le-melting-man/

His name was Joao Prestes Filho and he claimed that he "was suddenly struck by a beam of intensely hot light emanating from a glowing object above. Filho stated that he covered his face with his hands and collapsed to his knees. The burst lasted only a moment before vanishing completely."


This took place in a very rural and remote area of Brazil, very isolated in 1946, and they would simply have not had any comprehension or context for UFOs as we understand that term.  Most of the villagers seemed to think it was something supernatural, but this is the exact type of case that Jacques Vallee referred to when he said that UFOs have always been interpreted within a certain cultural, social and psychological context.

We might interpret them as machines or devices of some type, just more advanced than our own, or at least that has been a common view since the Second World War.  We are seeing them through the eyes of industrial and technological civilization, in the context of our own cultural and political concerns (like the Cold War), but we may not be any more "right" about that than more "backward" people who interpreted UFOs in purely religious and supernatural terms.

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 21 June 2012 - 03:49 AM.

[Slave2Fate]

psyche101, on 21 June 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Yes there is. Here is a pigs head being devoured by the most surprising candidates. Notice that the eyes are first to go, then the tongue and lower jaw, just as described in mutilation cases. No doubt proximity plays a part in this, the soft tissue is the first meat scavenged. And look how white those exposed bones are. And this is in a shed.

*snipped vid*

The famous drug cartels in South America explain human cases. From human intervention to natural causes, the phenomena can be explained with prosaic explanations.

Wow, that's a first for me! Carnivorous squirrels huh? I never would have guessed.

I do tend to lean more towards the prosaic in regards to mutilations but It's not an aspect of the ETH I spend much time researching, similar to crop circles in that the correlation is inferred but often never substantiated. Hence the question.

[psyche101]

TheMcGuffin, on 21 June 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

It was called the Melting Man of Brazil case, and it took place in 1946.

http://mysteriousuni...le-melting-man/

His name was Joao Prestes Filho and he claimed that he "was suddenly struck by a beam of intensely hot light emanating from a glowing object above. Filho stated that he covered his face with his hands and collapsed to his knees. The burst lasted only a moment before vanishing completely."


This took place in a very rural and remote area of Brazil, very isolated in 1946, and would simply have not had any comprehension or context for UFOs as we understand that term.  Most of the villagers seemed to think it was something supernatural, but this is the exact type of case that Jacques Vallee referred to when he said that UFOs have always been interpreted within a certain cultural, social and psychological context.

We might interpret them as machines or devices of some type, just more advanced than our own, or at least that has been a common view since the Second World War.  We are seeing them through the eyes of industrial and technological civilization, in the context of our own cultural and political concerns (like the Cold War), but we may not be any more "right" about that than more "backward" people who interpreted UFOs in purely religious and supernatural terms.

Thank you vey much. off for a read now. I would agree with Vallee, I too find the less marketed cases more interesting.

A more than interesting tale!

[psyche101]

Slave2Fate, on 21 June 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

Wow, that's a first for me! Carnivorous squirrels huh? I never would have guessed.

I do tend to lean more towards the prosaic in regards to mutilations but It's not an aspect of the ETH I spend much time researching, similar to crop circles in that the correlation is inferred but often never substantiated. Hence the question.

The squirrels got me too! I never would have guessed. I have the underneath documentary at home, which actually is a documentary (for Zosers benefit) it goes into the field in depth, it's a bit gross at times, but that is nature I suppose. Excellent viewing.

[lost_shaman]

TheMcGuffin, on 20 June 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

My problem with plasmas, ball lightning and other similar explanations for UFOs is that they are usually very short duration events, generally only a fraction of a second or a few seconds in length, and I can't imagine them going on as long as this RB-47 incident or similar UFOs reported right around this time.  I also can't imagine them responding correctly to encrypted IFF messages or showing up on radar and radar detection equipment for a prolonged period.

If they did, they must be the most remarkable plasmas on record, and ones for which I can find no evidence in the scientific literature.  You'd think that such a remarkable phenomenon would by itself have provoked considerable scientific interest and curiosity because nothing like it had even been seen before.

The plasmas (UAP) they are observing in Hessdalen are long duration plasmas, some have been observed up to and over an hour in duration. They've shown sometimes these will show up on RADAR. There is a good bit of scientific interest in them.

[quillius]

Slave2Fate, on 20 June 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Speaking of mutilations, has there ever been evidence presented (for any case) that cannot be the result of normal decay and/or insect and animal scavenging?

Hey S2F, sadly not, although I would add I have spent hardly any time at all looking at this aspect, I think this would be quite an easy one to prove though if it was happening, there is little doubt some form of trace evidence would be available, unlike abductions and or sightings.

[quillius]

psyche101, on 21 June 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

Whoa, that's an intriguing start, may I bother you for a link if you have one. I'd like to read more on that one.

this is the way the game should be played........ask nicely and you shall receive, thanks for this Psyche and McG, this proved a point I made on the other thread.

[quillius]

psyche101, on 21 June 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

It would be good to know why the deaths are considered strange, articles do not say why, animal mutilation has viable prosaic explanations.

I agree, the fact that the word 'resemble'is in there, but left out of 'biased' sites' (biased towards ET) says that this is likely to be chinese whispers changing the story to suit.

[TheMcGuffin]

quillius, on 21 June 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

this is the way the game should be played........ask nicely and you shall receive, thanks for this Psyche and McG, this proved a point I made on the other thread.

That's exactly right.

[quillius]

TheMcGuffin, on 21 June 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

That's exactly right.

its the way progress is made buddy...maybe not everyone has that same goal in mind.