39 replies to this topic

[hatecraft]

ninjadude, on 24 February 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

If you know anything at all about welfare or had been on it, you could not say this. They have NOT got it made.

I worked at a welfare office for 2 1/2 years.  I know all I need to know about the vast majority of welfare recipients.

[FLOMBIE]

Please, feel free too elaborate.

[conspiracybeliever]

hatecraft, on 26 February 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

I worked at a welfare office for 2 1/2 years.  I know all I need to know about the vast majority of welfare recipients.

Yes please. Tell us everything you learned about those people sitting behind your desk.   I'd like to hear some gossip from someone who has hands on experience rather than people who heard it from the tv.

[FurthurBB]

DieChecker, on 24 February 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Hilarious!


Yeah. So our politicians can legally be stoned and have a medical excuse for being idiots.

YES! What I want is my bus driver to be stoned while driving. Or, my heart surgeon, or my psychologist, or my college professor... Excellent idea.

What would lead you to believe that legalizing drugs would make everyone all the sudden start doing them?  Do you have any statistics to support that?

[DieChecker]

Stellar, on 25 February 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

While I dont agree with the idea of legalizing drugs, I found this reply pretty extreme too. Alcohol is legal. Is your bus driver drunk while driving? How about your heart surgeon, your psychologist or your college professor?

FurthurBB, on 27 February 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

What would lead you to believe that legalizing drugs would make everyone all the sudden start doing them?  Do you have any statistics to support that?

Just using the extreme side to make a point. Tons (kilos?) of people talk about making drugs legal, but few of them talk about what would still be needed to protect the public. To many pro-drug activists they would like to just have stores where you would just buy what you wanted, when you wanted. Yet, the truth is that drugs will never be unregulated. Alcohol and tobacco are not unregulated. You have to be 21 to buy most alcohol and hard liquor you have to go to a special store. Tobacco you have to show ID also, and then you have to obey thousands of smoking ordinances. You can't even really be out in public drunk, it is call being Under the Influence. So, tobacco and alcohol are hardly a free for all.

That is what I am against, a pot & strong drugs free for all. The pro-drug subculture does not seem to understand that drugs would be so restricted as to be still illegal. Pot would likely be so limited it would only be usable in your own house and only if you have no children or other easily offended people living there.

[FLOMBIE]

DieChecker, I think you got that wrong. Nobody wants drugs to be legal in the way you could go to a vending machine and buy a joint. Of course drugs will have to be regulated. They would have to be sold in a specific and licensed store and naturally not to people who are under the legal age. And while it may be a dream of many to smoke up in their local park, having the right to do drugs in their home or inside the stores would be enough for the most.
And it's not like this would be completely new terrain. Here in Europe we do have a very functional society named the Netherlands, where many drugs are not legal but tolerated if you follow the rules. Pot, for example, is given away in designated stores, called "coffee shops", and smoking in public is prohibited, while it is tolerated to be smoked in your home or inside the coffee shops. Most people are fine with that, and most of the people who offend these rules are "drug tourists", which is a problem that they are trying to solve at the moment.

And I believe that you can be drunk in public. You just cannot be too drunk. They same would apply for drugs. I do not see your problem.

EDIT: Oh, by the way.

Quote

YES! What I want is my bus driver to be stoned while driving. Or, my heart surgeon, or my psychologist, or my college professor... Excellent idea.

What makes you think they aren't right now? Drug abuse goes through the whole society. It's not a poor-man's thing. And definitely not due to drugs being legal or illegal.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 29 February 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[conspiracybeliever]

I don't think any kind of crime is a poor man's thing. It's just the fact that a poor man is convicted more often whether guilty or not. It's all about creating numbers. Numbers that work to the rich mans advantage.

[FLOMBIE]

Indeed, you are right. I am doing my legal clerkship right now, and a lot of crimes I have to deal with are crimes associated with obtaining drugs of drug addicts. If you look at the perpetrators, they are quite often good kids who somewhere took the wrong path and got hooked on a drug. Now it is up to me to decide what to do with him after he got caught for stealing some money to finance his addiction. Put him into jail is what most people have in mind, that would teach him a lesson, but should I really do that? It's probably destroying his entire life, so should I put him in therapy? Would he pull through? It's tough. If drugs were legalized, it might be possible to interfere at an earlier stage and prevent him from this misery. It demonstrates why some things like possession of small amount of drugs (for personal use) are not persecuted anymore here in Berlin, It's just not worth it.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 01 March 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[BlindMessiah]

Stellar, on 23 February 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Hypocritical bs I bet. They fight tooth and nail, justifying the laws that they make as necessary and morally correct... until it pertains to them. I have my doubts as to whether first of all this will get resubmitted, as well as whether it gains the same support.

Edit again: Jon Stewart did a good bit on this last week or 2 weeks ago.

Only he did it on Florida's law, where our most wonderful state legislature passed the bill without any such inclusion of themselves.

[lightly]

I just have to say...   there is a BIG difference between pot and drugs such as Heroin or Cocaine or Meth  .. i think people should be more specific when discussing  "DRUGS!*"

* or the legalization thereof

Edited by lightly, 02 March 2012 - 12:01 PM.

[FLOMBIE]

Well, since I value the dangers of a psychological addiction that pot causes higher than most people, I certainly do not see that much of a difference. And if you put cocaine an heroin in comparison to alcohol, which is legal, there is no difference at all. Every drug is destructive if misused.

[Ratte]

Ya know, this is some bull. I make about 9k to 12k a year and I don't qualify for any sort of government assistance. I have to go to food pantries just to eat anything. If I'm lucky, I might be getting about a hundred dollars of food stamps a month starting next month. That'll be a relief if it happens, but knowing my luck, it probably wont. I work eight hours a day doing back breaking labor just to keep the roof over Niki and mines heads. My dumb*** uncle is on welfare and all he does is sit around all day, smoke pot and eat, occasionally making a video for youtube. I've been tempted to report him so many times, tell him to get off his fat, lazy rear and at least look for a job like the rest of us. Heck, I'd be happy if the only government assirtance I got would be 100 bucks a month on a gas only card to Speedway. For every lazy jerk that cheats the system, another hard working person is getting screwed. I have no problem with someone smoking pot every once in a while, but every day, mooching off of hard working people is bull.

[DieChecker]

FLOMBIE, on 29 February 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

DieChecker, I think you got that wrong. Nobody wants drugs to be legal in the way you could go to a vending machine and buy a joint.

I think you might be surprised. Between 25 and 35 I lived with dozens of roomates, many losers, and all the libertarian ones talked about how they wanted legalized drugs so they could be high all the time, even at work. They also talked about how they needed lots of guns too, and many had concealed carry permits and talked about blowing away anyone that messed with them.

I think the numbers of near crazies out there is higher then you might suppose.

Quote

Of course drugs will have to be regulated. They would have to be sold in a specific and licensed store and naturally not to people who are under the legal age. And while it may be a dream of many to smoke up in their local park, having the right to do drugs in their home or inside the stores would be enough for the most.

Agree. I just believe the naive Pro-drugs crowd would still have a big problem with it, and there would still need to be a War on Drugs, and Cartels and Pot growers would not be put out of business, in my Opinion.

Quote

What makes you think they aren't right now? Drug abuse goes through the whole society. It's not a poor-man's thing. And definitely not due to drugs being legal or illegal.

Nothing, but they don't have an excuse at present. They can't be like, "I got a cocaine prescription and so it was not my fault that I creamed 8 toddlers with my bus."

conspiracybeliever, on 29 February 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

I don't think any kind of crime is a poor man's thing. It's just the fact that a poor man is convicted more often whether guilty or not. It's all about creating numbers. Numbers that work to the rich mans advantage.

The poor and working class are the 99% right? Whatever the percentage of the poor. The rich are not going to make up any sizable percentage of any prison population. The problem I see with the poor is not that they are more Criminal, it is that they are more Desprate.

But what the hell does Desprate have to do with Drug Abuse? Should be... nothing.

Edited by DieChecker, 03 March 2012 - 07:17 AM.

[lightly]

FLOMBIE, on 02 March 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

Well, since I value the dangers of a psychological addiction that pot causes higher than most people, I certainly do not see that much of a difference. And if you put cocaine an heroin in comparison to alcohol, which is legal, there is no difference at all. Every drug is destructive if misused.

  I agree with your point that pot can be psychologically addicting...  many, many,  things can be, depending on the person.   Food can be psychologically addicting and  destructive if misused.  Prescription drugs now kill more drug users in the U.S.  than illegal drugs,  usually through  misuse  or misapplication .  Also, any over the counter medication has the potential to kill if misused. Many have the potential to kill, and do kill,  even when used  as recommended.
     I'm not advocating the use or misuse of any substance... just pointing out that some substances are much more dangerous than others. Some, both legal and illegal,  kill hundreds of thousands of users and abusers annually..  and some don't.   There has never been a case of a person overdosing to the point of death from ingestion of marijuana... that is one important difference from other illegal, and legal, controlled substances, and why, i think,  there should be distinctions made when discussing DRUGS!*

[J. K.]

Regarding the legalization of drugs issue...

It is not the intent of the anti-druggies to deny a user's pleasure.  Rather, it is to avoid the deleterious effects of drug (and other addictive substance) usage.

During one week, how many times will you read about deaths occurring from drug-related thefts and shootings, and for that matter, drunk driving?