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Global Warming Total Fraud

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#31    Jeremiah65

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 02:52 PM

I see an argument bantering back and forth here and I have to point something out...not only applicable to this topic but many-many topics across this board.

How many of you members out there are scientist and engineers or physicist?  How many of you read an article that agrees with your point of view and you immediately accept it and when one disagrees you reject it?

This happens all over these boards.

The truth is...nearly all of us take what the "experts" tell us as fact...we are not qualified to do the research and experimentation ourselves...so we have no choice but to believe what we are told.  All we can do is some mundane research and look for overall consensus...do "most" experts agree with this side of the argument or the other.

We need to stop fooling ourselves every time we find an expert that agrees with us...that does not make your side immediately correct.

As far as this topic...I believe climate change is a real phenomena.  I am not convinced it is entirely man's fault...but we MIGHT be accelerating it.  There is evidence the whole solar system is heating up...is that man's fault too?

As I have said before, we need to stop bickering over the cause and start focusing on practical things we can do to prepare for the ramifications of a shifting climate.

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#32    Gummug

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:07 PM

View PostKowalski, on 13 August 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well, she's right.
How do we know this isn't something the earth goes through every couple of hundred years? There have been many different points in history where we have experienced cooling off and warming up. There is a good documentary called Little Ice Age: Big Chill that talks about the Times in the past the earth has cooled off, and then warmed back up.
That's right Kowalski. I also like the point Elfin makes that "Global warming is also a fraud in another sense, a literal fraud, with its proponents fudging and making up data to suit their agenda, as has been proven in a number of cases now."
:)

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#33    Gummug

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:10 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 13 August 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

I see an argument bantering back and forth here and I have to point something out...not only applicable to this topic but many-many topics across this board.

How many of you members out there are scientist and engineers or physicist?  How many of you read an article that agrees with your point of view and you immediately accept it and when one disagrees you reject it?

This happens all over these boards.

The truth is...nearly all of us take what the "experts" tell us as fact...we are not qualified to do the research and experimentation ourselves...so we have no choice but to believe what we are told.  All we can do is some mundane research and look for overall consensus...do "most" experts agree with this side of the argument or the other.

We need to stop fooling ourselves every time we find an expert that agrees with us...that does not make your side immediately correct.

As far as this topic...I believe climate change is a real phenomena.  I am not convinced it is entirely man's fault...but we MIGHT be accelerating it.  There is evidence the whole solar system is heating up...is that man's fault too?

As I have said before, we need to stop bickering over the cause and start focusing on practical things we can do to prepare for the ramifications of a shifting climate.
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#34    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:23 PM

View Postaztek, on 13 August 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

that is retarded, earth goes thru cycles for millions of years, regardless of humans. it is a fact.
there is a cause , but apperantly too complex for you to grasp, since you can't phantom that humans are not the only force on earth.
Tell me what has started to drive temperature up in the last 150 years. I want the specific natural cycle with some actual evidence to support your belief in it.

You are still copping out of explaining why the planet is warming at the rate it is when there are no natural forcings to account for it. You are invoking the Magic hidden cause clause of the skeptic armaments.

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#35    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:26 PM

View PostGummug, on 13 August 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

That's right Kowalski. I also like the point Elfin makes that "Global warming is also a fraud in another sense, a literal fraud, with its proponents fudging and making up data to suit their agenda, as has been proven in a number of cases now."
:)
Support that with robust examples. That requires some degree of peer review refutation of some specific piece of data - not just a blog post from Watts up with that. Its easy to make such unsubstantiated claims but a damn site harder to support them.

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#36    Tau Ceti Xeta

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:30 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 13 August 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

There is plenty of evidence of global warming, and the opposition to it is basically political.

I mainly blame the political left and especially the extremists of the environmental movement for the present denial movement seen on the right.  People like Al Gore made their careers and wealth out of exaggerating it and the Democrats regularly thump the most  fearsome predictions for votes.  Now we have a predictable reaction.  Global warming is seen as an excuse for government controls and socialism.  There are free-enterprise ways to tackle the problem too.

In the meantime the danger increases.

Yes, Global Warming is caused by the sun and geothermal energy ( El Nino Effect).

Mankind contributes less than 1% to the global warming / cooling here on Earth.

It was never about saving the planet.  It was always about using fear to gain power over the general population.

Food for thought: Without the sun, Earth would be an icy rock.


#37    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostKowalski, on 13 August 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well, she's right.
How do we know this isn't something the earth goes through every couple of hundred years? There have been many different points in history where we have experienced cooling off and warming up. There is a good documentary called Little Ice Age: Big Chill that talks about the Times in the past the earth has cooled off, and then warmed back up.
paleoclimatology tells us what cycles to expect. Simple.
The problem is that currently there is nothing to account5 for the warming - no known natural cycle fits the bill. We should be cooling - but we are not.

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#38    DieChecker

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:38 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 13 August 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

What we could do about it is just be better custodians of the planet.  We can also learn how to adapt to Gaia and her cycles.  Pull back coastal communities or develop domed cities in those areas.  Enclose estuaries.  There are all sorts of things like this that can be done rather than pouring trillions down the drain trying to prevent something that we can't.  We have the technology to engineer our existence rather than something on the level of terra-forming (i.e. we're not even yet a Type I Civilization).
So which is it??? Can we simply be better custodians or are we trying to "prevent something we can't"? Or are you saying it is too late and we simply have to engineer to deal with what is going to happen? Either way is billions of dollars.

I'm not sure how to force people to be better custodians of the planet. I mean, it is impossible to get many people to even support themselves, or eat healthy. I believe it is now 75% of the US that is overweight and the percentage that is morbidly obese is skyrocketing. If we can't even be good custodians of our own bodies, how can we expect the population to help the planet?

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#39    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:43 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 13 August 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

So which is it??? Can we simply be better custodians or are we trying to "prevent something we can't"? Or are you saying it is too late and we simply have to engineer to deal with what is going to happen? Either way is billions of dollars.

I'm not sure how to force people to be better custodians of the planet. I mean, it is impossible to get many people to even support themselves, or eat healthy. I believe it is now 75% of the US that is overweight and the percentage that is morbidly obese is skyrocketing. If we can't even be good custodians of our own bodies, how can we expect the population to help the planet?
So we should not try ? We should give up ?

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#40    DieChecker

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:44 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 13 August 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

We need to stop fooling ourselves every time we find an expert that agrees with us...that does not make your side immediately correct.
The problem being that if one expert uses 100 years of weather data, and the other expert uses crystals and meditation, I am generally going to believe the one with evidence. There can be many reasons to immediately dismiss some "experts". If I immedately dismiss one expert and embrace another it is usually due, as you pointed out, to my background. If I have a science background I will accept science experts. And if I have a religious/phylosophical background I will accept other experts. But unless either side has evidence... hard physically based numbers, it is not worth embracing one or the other.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#41    DieChecker

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:48 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 August 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

So we should not try ? We should give up ?

Br Cornelius
Nope. I believe the problem is easily engineerable. It will just be expensive.

I don't believe that it will be fixed by depending on the Masses, since the masses only care (in general) about themselves. I believe experts will have to intervene and act to correct the issue back to where CO2 and the world temperature are supposed to be. But like I said, it will be very expensive and controversial, and I doubt the political will and financial resources will be made available anytime soon.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#42    Royal

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:13 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 13 August 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

This is a bit alarmist in that this isn't the only scenario.  Shutting off the conveyor would depend on the rate of ice water being introduced into the system.  And if that turns agricultural regions to desert, then deserts can just as easily turn into agricultural areas.  It's a crap shoot but Earth is still a system that works to stay in balance.  It doesn't like quick changes but is Man capable of making these quick changes?  Other than an all out nuclear war, I don't think Man can.
I agree my statement is alarmist,but it's still the truth. Earth may not be able to stay a balanced system with increasingly rapid greenhouse effects caused by human consumption of fossil fuels etc.. The earth is gonna be fine...we're screwed.

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#43    RavenHawk

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 August 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

The "Natural Cycles" argument is a convenient cop out which allows people to ignore the reality without actually explaining what is happening. Nothing is without cause and there is no such thing as a causeless natural cycle.
No it is not a copout.  Calling it a natural cycle is not saying that there is nothing to do.  There is plenty to do.  Saying that it is a natural cycle does not mean that no one should explore and study what these cycles actually are.  Quite the opposite.  A natural cycle means that there is science behind the process and not some wild hypothesis.  It is just properly identifying the problem instead of working up people from fear mongering so that the Socialists can redistribute the wealth.  Establishing the right mindset (Natural Cycles) leads to effective solutions and not throwing money at the problem and wondering why nothing is changing.

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#44    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:31 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 13 August 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

No it is not a copout.  Calling it a natural cycle is not saying that there is nothing to do.  There is plenty to do.  Saying that it is a natural cycle does not mean that no one should explore and study what these cycles actually are.  Quite the opposite.  A natural cycle means that there is science behind the process and not some wild hypothesis.  It is just properly identifying the problem instead of working up people from fear mongering so that the Socialists can redistribute the wealth.  Establishing the right mindset (Natural Cycles) leads to effective solutions and not throwing money at the problem and wondering why nothing is changing.
So what is the natural cycle ? What is the forcing agent ? Its still a cop out unless you can account for it with evidence.

The fact is that CO2 accounts for the rise nicely - there is a mechanism and an anticipated response to rising greenhouse gases. the facts fit the hypothesis and so you would have to account for why a 25% rise in atmospheric CO2 levels wasn't effecting the climate.

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#45    darkmoonlady

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:42 PM

Ice core samples contain trapped gasses which have provided concise CO2 levels for THOUSANDS of years not hundreds.

“The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance …or change... logic can be happily tossed out the window. Religious mania is one of the few infallible ways of responding to the worlds vagaries, because it totally eliminates pure accident. To the true religious maniac, it’s ALL on purpose” – Stephen King, The Stand





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