43 replies to this topic

[Sky Scanner]

Until the freemasons start selling pies, watered down beer, and some fat bloke streaks across the chamber floor, they have a long way to go to be compared to football.

[MstrMsn]

The Sky Scanner, on 21 April 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Until the freemasons start selling pies, watered down beer, and some fat bloke streaks across the chamber floor, they have a long way to go to be compared to football.

We've had a few parties like that....

[Flibbertigibbet]

MstrMsn, on 21 April 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Again, symbolism within the Blue Lodge isn't just limited to Solomon. Yes, there is a great deal of Solomon related symbols, but there is more.

However, getting back to the original post... What "deals" do they make with each other that causes them to be considered "corrupt"?

I'm not talking about the wild conspiracy theories in which Masons run the world, or control all the banks, or whatever. Just the small scale deals where a lodge, say, in some small provincial town has all the town's businessmen in it, and they do business with each other simply because they know each other, as masons. Then there's the police, some lodges in London are wholly for policemen, and when they take bungs from criminals to look the other way, their fellow masons turn a blind eye, and so on. Petty corruption, in other words, and certainly not as an organised policy of Grand Lodge or anything.

[Sky Scanner]

MstrMsn, on 21 April 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

We've had a few parties like that....

Then i'm in! where do I sign....

[Flibbertigibbet]

The Sky Scanner, on 21 April 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Until the freemasons start selling pies, watered down beer, and some fat bloke streaks across the chamber floor, they have a long way to go to be compared to football.

They do, however, have something called a "festive board", where they all sit around stuffing themselves and drinking loads of booze.

[MstrMsn]

Flibbertigibbet, on 21 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I'm not talking about the wild conspiracy theories in which Masons run the world, or control all the banks, or whatever. Just the small scale deals where a lodge, say, in some small provincial town has all the town's businessmen in it, and they do business with each other simply because they know each other, as masons. Then there's the police, some lodges in London are wholly for policemen, and when they take bungs from criminals to look the other way, their fellow masons turn a blind eye, and so on. Petty corruption, in other words, and certainly not as an organised policy of Grand Lodge or anything.

That can be said of any group. However, if a fellow Mason was known to be corrupt (especially breaking the law), that could and usually would get them expelled from the Order. Now, if the entire Lodge were in on it, anyone from another Lodge that found out (or anyone from Grand Lodge), it would be reported to GL, and an investigation would be conducted, and the Lodge would lose it's charter.

[Flibbertigibbet]

MstrMsn, on 21 April 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

That can be said of any group. However, if a fellow Mason was known to be corrupt (especially breaking the law), that could and usually would get them expelled from the Order. Now, if the entire Lodge were in on it, anyone from another Lodge that found out (or anyone from Grand Lodge), it would be reported to GL, and an investigation would be conducted, and the Lodge would lose it's charter.

I'm sure that's what the rules say, and I'm sure they might do it too. But the petty corruption still goes on.

[Rafterman]

Flibbertigibbet, on 21 April 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Both have a rectangular meeting place, and during the meetings the normal rules of life are suspended and replaced with a special set of highly formalised and arbitrary rules, infringement of which will earn ritualised punishments from the person in charge of the meeting. Meetings begin and end at appointed times, and the participants have to wear special uniforms while attending. During the meeting, participants can only move about the meeting place in certain ways and at certain times, and there is an audience around the sides. The word of the person in charge is law, and his decisions are final, even if later shown to have been wrong. There are lots of different meeting places all over the country, and specific groups that meet in them, each with their own distinctive name and identity. Membership of these groups is a privilege only accorded to a few. The groups are organised into a hierarchical structure in which the groups compete for honours and other benefits. This whole structure is highly corrupt, especially in its upper layers, and those who run it are making a fortune. And the clincher is that one of these structures, the Football Association, was founded in 1863 at the Freemason's Arms in London.

Masonic lodge floor plan


Football pitch

That's not football.  

[Travelling Man]

Well, to start with, your basic premise is bad, because Greek Fraternities are thriving in Universities all over the UK. Secondly, just because your alumni association has a fraternal bent to their meetings, this does NOT mean that they are Masonic in origin, meaning or appearance. You say you can "tell the chaff from the wheat" - but what sources do you use so WE can look at them as well to see if they are accurate, unbiased and legitimate - or if they are misleading you.

Besides, being female, you aren't going to be privy to legitimate Masonic meetings or what goes on inside the Lodge outside of reading about it... and reading about a subject does not make one an expert.

[Flibbertigibbet]

Travelling Man, on 22 April 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Well, to start with, your basic premise is bad, because Greek Fraternities are thriving in Universities all over the UK. Secondly, just because your alumni association has a fraternal bent to their meetings, this does NOT mean that they are Masonic in origin, meaning or appearance. You say you can "tell the chaff from the wheat" - but what sources do you use so WE can look at them as well to see if they are accurate, unbiased and legitimate - or if they are misleading you.

Besides, being female, you aren't going to be privy to legitimate Masonic meetings or what goes on inside the Lodge outside of reading about it... and reading about a subject does not make one an expert.

I'm willing to be corrected, so please tell me the name of any university in the UK that has a fraternity.

There are female masonic orders, or don't you count them as legitimate?

[Paul Rubino]

Flibbertigibbet, on 21 April 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Both have a rectangular meeting place, and during the meetings the normal rules of life are suspended and replaced with a special set of highly formalised and arbitrary rules, infringement of which will earn ritualised punishments from the person in charge of the meeting. Meetings begin and end at appointed times, and the participants have to wear special uniforms while attending. During the meeting, participants can only move about the meeting place in certain ways and at certain times, and there is an audience around the sides. The word of the person in charge is law, and his decisions are final, even if later shown to have been wrong. There are lots of different meeting places all over the country, and specific groups that meet in them, each with their own distinctive name and identity. Membership of these groups is a privilege only accorded to a few. The groups are organised into a hierarchical structure in which the groups compete for honours and other benefits. This whole structure is highly corrupt, especially in its upper layers, and those who run it are making a fortune. And the clincher is that one of these structures, the Football Association, was founded in 1863 at the Freemason's Arms in London.

Masonic lodge floor plan


Football pitch

I LOVE this! Can is teal and repost elsewhere?  

[Flibbertigibbet]

Paul Rubino, on 22 April 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

I LOVE this! Can is teal and repost elsewhere?  

Where did you have in mind?

[Babe Ruth]

Not just football!

Freemasonry is connected to everything  

They designed the District of Columbia.  

[Flibbertigibbet]

Babe Ruth, on 22 April 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

Not just football!

Freemasonry is connected to everything  

They designed the District of Columbia.  

London too, after the Great Fire. Sir Christopher Wren was a mason, supposedly.

[Travelling Man]

Flibbertigibbet, on 22 April 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

I'm willing to be corrected, so please tell me the name of any university in the UK that has a fraternity.

There are female masonic orders, or don't you count them as legitimate?

Oxford has Zeta Psi,
Phi Sigma has seven chapters throughout the UK
Delta Zeta has three chapters in England.

The UK isn't as open to the traditionally American idea of the Greek Fraternity system, and they have very similar clubs and organizations.

And a fraternity is, by definition, male only. The "co-masonic" orders are considered to be illegitimate and just "posers" - and any co-masonic member that would try to represent themselves as an official Freemason to a legitimate Freemason would be shunned (at best).